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Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

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Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

Old 12-31-2007, 05:53 PM
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Mr. Mugen
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Default Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

Well I have my sig rascal built and need to bench run the engine. I have a norvel .061. I have a few different bottles of fuel to try. Which is best? I have this http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXEYT8&P=0

And this http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXEPD2&P=0

Thanks guy's,
Kevin
Old 12-31-2007, 06:09 PM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

i like sig 1/2a fuel 25% with extra castor oil added
Old 12-31-2007, 06:40 PM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

I second the Sig 1/2A fuel, although I only add extra castor during break-in.
Old 12-31-2007, 11:01 PM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

An extra 4-8 ozs of castor per gallon never hurts. I ruined my fair share of Norvel engines before learning about additional castor. 20-25% oil is best for the long haul. These engines are no longer being made, so only God really knows how low of an oil percentage you can run. It is always better to err on the oily side.
Old 12-31-2007, 11:08 PM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

Thanks guy's. I will make sure to add some before running it. Kevin
Old 12-31-2007, 11:14 PM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

Oil is the most expensive ingredient, so guess where the supplier is looking to make a profit?
Old 12-31-2007, 11:55 PM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

Yup, unless you totally insane with adding oil, it won't affect much of anything. It just goes out the exhaust anyway (and all over the plane).
Old 01-01-2008, 12:09 AM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

That goop on the outside of the plane is a good way to measure how much fun your having! Bugs and grass are just bonus points
Old 01-01-2008, 01:29 AM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

The extra oil allows you to set the needle closer to peak with confidence. The perfect set up can be set to run on the ground the way you want it to sound in the air.
Old 01-01-2008, 04:47 AM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

Anyone have experience with the Norvel branded fuel? It's got 18% KLOTZ oil in it and 35% nitro. Back in the day, I'd only run castor oil in 1/2A's-but then again Cox's were all I had. When the VA's came out, then the Norvels, I ventured out but didn't fly enough to kill off an engine....
Old 01-01-2008, 10:37 AM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?


ORIGINAL: DeviousDave

Anyone have experience with the Norvel branded fuel? It's got 18% KLOTZ oil in it and 35% nitro. Back in the day, I'd only run castor oil in 1/2A's-but then again Cox's were all I had. When the VA's came out, then the Norvels, I ventured out but didn't fly enough to kill off an engine....
Before SIG came into the picture, NORVEL fuels (15%, 25%, 35%) were made by Wildcat fuels. By trial and error, guys found that they ran better and longer with a little higher percentage (~20%-22%) of lube with some of it castor. I would assume (bad word) that SIG makes NORVEL fuels now. I still have some of the old 25%, to which I add some castor.

One of the considerations is that SOME fuels for larger engines have extra ingredients for anti-foaming, etc. Some of these extras would permanently foul NORVEL plugs, and for that reason, NORVEL recommended certain fuels. They also said that some others may not foul the plug, but the ones they listed, they had tried. Also, NORVEL recommended not using fuelers with rubber in them. Apparently, the reason the plugs were affected was the low operating temperature of NORVEL engines.

Note that of the fuels above, the SIG 1/2A lists 18% KLOTZ as lube while the other 25% lists 20% 1/2 KLOTZ and 1/2 castor. As someone mentioned above, if you use the 1/2A fuel you might want to bump the percentage up to ~22% with castor (which SIG also sells). I have used as low as 10% nitro, but I think 15%-25% gives best handling. IMHO, you don't need 35% unless you are racing. But remember, this is only one opinion. Your plane and prop may work better with a different fuel.

George

Old 01-01-2008, 05:52 PM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

I use Sig Champion 35% in my .049-.074 Norvels. The high nitro content makes for smoother idle and low end. I broke most of them in on 15% Omega, and I've also used 25% Byron 1/2a fuel (in broken-in engines) with good results. Actually, I prefer the Byron fuel, but I haven't seen it in the local shops, and the quart I did have was bought in Ocala, FL on vacation...
Old 01-02-2008, 04:41 PM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?


ORIGINAL: digital_trucker

Yup, unless you totally insane with adding oil, it won't affect much of anything. It just goes out the exhaust anyway (and all over the plane).
DT, I dare you to go over to the car forum and post that in one of the arguments about oil content over there. There are guys over there who will swear that anything above 15% oil will damage the engine somehow......even for plane engines.
Old 01-02-2008, 06:23 PM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?


ORIGINAL: BuzzBomber
T

DT, I dare you to go over to the car forum and post that in one of the arguments about oil content over there.

Matt, one does not have to travel as far as the car forum to find those who pursue their minimal oil idolatry with a religious zeal unmatched by rational men anywhere

That being said I will fearlessly and confidently state that I have never run a Cox, Norvel, AME, Thunder Tiger, AME, CS, Cyclon or any other 1/2 A or small A engine that did not benefit from if nor absolutely require an oil rich mixture, heavy on if not solely castor.

The above reflects my experience only and should any one else prefer to run artificial peppermint oil, or some exotic blend concockted by mysterious scientist using a rare fungus from a remote part of Antartica I encourage their efforts and assure them that my personal preferances are not deliberately intended to offend anyone.

jess
Old 01-02-2008, 07:53 PM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?


ORIGINAL: jessiej


...should any one else prefer to run artificial peppermint oil, or some exotic blend concockted by mysterious scientist using a rare fungus from a remote part of Antartica I encourage their efforts and assure them that my personal preferances are not deliberately intended to offend anyone.

jess
Hmm, maybe I should start using sesame oil--that way when I land the plane will smell like stir-fries Chinese food, yummy... FWIW, I use about 22% total oil in my Norvels and they've never complained...
Old 01-03-2008, 02:31 PM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

Has anyone here tried calling up a fuel maker & just asking for a 049/061 friendly fuel mix?

I was looking at Ritch's Brew,
and while he has all castor 15%nitro in 20% or 29% oil, I didnt see an all castor 20%+ nitro.
Would it be worth the effort to ask for a 25/25 Castor fuel, with no plug killing junk added?
I say effort, cause it looks to be much easier to just add a lil bottle of castor to a can of standard/.40 fuel twice a year, cause that makes a whole lot of 1oz tankfulls
Old 01-03-2008, 04:39 PM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

I simply run straight Sig 1/2A fuel in a broken-in engine, and I add 4oz of castor to a quart for break-in fuel. If I were flying in competition I might look into more exotic blends, but for everyday flying it's proven reliable for me.
Old 01-04-2008, 12:41 PM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

Are these the same car guys that think that getting 1-2 gallons of lifespan out of an engine is fine?
Old 01-04-2008, 01:42 PM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?


ORIGINAL: tag-RCU

Are these the same car guys that think that getting 1-2 gallons of lifespan out of an engine is fine?
Wow! You get a gallon before blowing up?! Yeah, really. Lots of these car guys claim that running a higher oil content forces you to run leaner to compensate for the lost performance due to the higher oil content having more friction. Myself, I run my cars on fuel with 30% nitro and 16-18% oil, haven't worn an engine out yet, even though they tell me I have to switch to 12% oil before I blow my engines.

But I digress from the topic at hand. On adding oil to existing fuel for 1/2A use, I haven't had any issue adding castor to either Omega 15% nitro or O'Donnell 30% car fuel for my norvels. So far, I haven't fouled up a plug element using this blend.
Old 01-04-2008, 01:47 PM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

What does a fouled plug element look like? AFAIK, they either give up all there "stuff" and get chalky white, or they break off and get blown out the exhaust.
Old 01-04-2008, 03:00 PM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

One must remember that car engines turn many many more rpm's than any plane engine too. I have used all kind of fuels and different engine of=ver time and can tel you from my exp that around a 14% oil content is plenty for a 30,000 rpm engine. I too have not worn out any engines. The guys who are racing in circuits do not need their engines to last more than one race so lessoil is fine for them. Get a sponsor and run no oil...
Old 01-04-2008, 03:11 PM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

I'm sure that the model car guys' wisdom has been developed over many years worth of trial by fire. Those engines are never under the constant high load that an airplane engine is, so it isn't an even comparison. They run through a gear train.
Look at how often full scale plane engines get torn down compared with car engines in real life.
I used to run plane fuel in a Picco .21 powered Indy car and it looked like a steam locomotive....but the engine still put out more than I could handle and the extra oil didn't ruin one darn thing.
Old 01-04-2008, 03:18 PM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

Too much oil will only foul a plug. Never actually heard of any one ruining their engine due to too much oil. It does cut the performance a lot. I have nearly 50 nitro's in cars and trucks and still have yet to ruin one. I run 30% nitro 14% oil in most of them. The others get 20%N and 18% oil. It's finding the happy balance that works for you that counts I guess. I like you would rather be a little slower than blow my engine. The temps that they run at are quite a bit different too. Having a prop right in front of an engine makes for a cool bunch of power. What temps do these 1/2 a engines get up to? I have yet to get one started. Kevin
Old 01-04-2008, 03:31 PM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

They can get smokin' hot if you aren't careful. A 1/2A engine will trick you into thinking that the needle is right if you are too quick to judge. Especially if the tank is high, then when the tank level drops the mixture leans out just enough to roast the engine but not kill it. This is the main disadvantage to not having a way to kill the engine, so you can land then readjust. Castor is cheap insurance to help avoid run away heat and damage.

I always tune the engine with the nose of the model pointing straight up, this helps duplicate the worst scenario running condition. Let the last adjustment go for a minute before you are sold on it being right. Having steady muffler pressure would help, I safety wire the muffler to the case tightly to improve the seal.
Old 01-04-2008, 03:49 PM
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Default RE: Which fuel for my .061 norvel?

Good idea. I was wondering how good these springs were that held the mufflers on. It doesn't take much to pull it away from the jug. I will wire mine up pre-break in. It sure is nice to have this resource before making all the mistakes I would have already made. So a little rich is just right. I usually have a pal hold my planes upright before feeling like I have it. I can't count how many dead sticks I saw because of this step being skipped. I am guilty of it as well. Thanks for all the insight on these engines so far. I really appreciate it.

Kevin

P.S. I have my norvel .061 mounted in the rascal already and getting the servo's put in now. Almost time. Getting excited.

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