I've been had, again ....UPDATE
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I've been had, again ....UPDATE
Hey guys, I just got taken for a ride, purchaseing a .061 Norvel at that auction site. "Like New" (means "needs some parts, & case has some seizure damage at the prop area) "Great Compression" (means no compression). I looked at the Sig site, but there are no descriptions for the Norvel parts, & I have no parts list. Can some one pm a parts list to me, or give me the #s for the following? Head gasket shims, drive gasket, rear prop hub (drive collar), prop spinner, & prop bolt. Thanks, ...... George K.
#2
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RE: I've been had, again
George, I knew this would happen if I cleaned out my file cabinet [&o]. I just tossed the whole NORVEL folder full of parts lists and other junk. Sorry.
There have been way too many problems with 1/2A engine sellers recently. I have tried to buy 3 AMEs in the last year and have struck out. I've got no more patience to play "Oops, I'm so sorry" with the sellers any more. From now on if I take the bait and get burned the seller gets a bad report card. These guys need to get shut down.
There have been way too many problems with 1/2A engine sellers recently. I have tried to buy 3 AMEs in the last year and have struck out. I've got no more patience to play "Oops, I'm so sorry" with the sellers any more. From now on if I take the bait and get burned the seller gets a bad report card. These guys need to get shut down.
#3
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RE: I've been had, again
Wow, what CP is carefully skirting around is the fact that there are no more suppliers...unless you scour the hobby shops, or trust another auction site..or someone around here can help.....Norvel parts/engines are no longer available...hate to be the bearer of worse news...sorry dude...on the other hand you might be able to sell parts off yours?....Rog
I'd go ahead and go the AP .061 route...just plan on taking your time on breakin....you may also try Lite Machines Helicopters, if they still have parts I could find you the part numbers
I'd go ahead and go the AP .061 route...just plan on taking your time on breakin....you may also try Lite Machines Helicopters, if they still have parts I could find you the part numbers
#4
RE: I've been had, again
George --
It's unfortunate -- I've been burned a couple of times and now buy only NIB engines. Due to the tight fit and occasional difficulty in starting a new NORVEL, I think they are more prone to abuse and damage during breakin by those not familiar with the engine.
Single shim: 100117
Replacement shims (2): 1001175
Drive gasket: 100136
Rear prop hub: 100124
Spinner and screw set: 100151
The chances of finding parts is pretty slim. You will probably have to call places for availability. You might give SIG a call -- there may be few parts remaining in inventory.
You can substitute COX head gaskets in place of the NORVEL -- they can still be found or reused from junker engines. AP WASP head gaskets will also fit, but the ones I have seen are of very poor quality.
The AP Wasp drive gasket is a drop in fit, part no. 06125
The prop screw can be replaced with a 3mm x 30mm partially threaded socket head cap screw. I buy the 30mm length to get a longer unthreaded shank, then cut to the length I need since I generally replace the HEX drive screw with a socket head screw. A COX spinner can be substitited.
The AP rear prop hub (06238) uses a split collet rather than a notch like the NORVEL, but the fit is the same on the NORVEL crank and might work. You might have to take a little off the back of the drive washer.
[link=http://globalservices.globalhobby.com/part/211280.asp]Global Services[/link] carries AP WASP parts.
That's about it. Some of the other guys may have some parts or better advice.
It's unfortunate -- I've been burned a couple of times and now buy only NIB engines. Due to the tight fit and occasional difficulty in starting a new NORVEL, I think they are more prone to abuse and damage during breakin by those not familiar with the engine.
Single shim: 100117
Replacement shims (2): 1001175
Drive gasket: 100136
Rear prop hub: 100124
Spinner and screw set: 100151
The chances of finding parts is pretty slim. You will probably have to call places for availability. You might give SIG a call -- there may be few parts remaining in inventory.
You can substitute COX head gaskets in place of the NORVEL -- they can still be found or reused from junker engines. AP WASP head gaskets will also fit, but the ones I have seen are of very poor quality.
The AP Wasp drive gasket is a drop in fit, part no. 06125
The prop screw can be replaced with a 3mm x 30mm partially threaded socket head cap screw. I buy the 30mm length to get a longer unthreaded shank, then cut to the length I need since I generally replace the HEX drive screw with a socket head screw. A COX spinner can be substitited.
The AP rear prop hub (06238) uses a split collet rather than a notch like the NORVEL, but the fit is the same on the NORVEL crank and might work. You might have to take a little off the back of the drive washer.
[link=http://globalservices.globalhobby.com/part/211280.asp]Global Services[/link] carries AP WASP parts.
That's about it. Some of the other guys may have some parts or better advice.
#5
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RE: I've been had, again
IIRC, SIG did get a small batch of parts a few months ago.
*BUT*
I've ordered from these guys, ordered 10 .074 heads (not glow heads) so they appear to have a good stock of spares: http://www.quicktechhobby.com/Engine...gine_parts.htm
*BUT*
I've ordered from these guys, ordered 10 .074 heads (not glow heads) so they appear to have a good stock of spares: http://www.quicktechhobby.com/Engine...gine_parts.htm
#6
RE: I've been had, again
Although I do not have an AP, from discussions on the various boards, the AP is a direct copy of the early non-Revlite Norvel (don't remember if it's AME or Big Mig). Someone posted that AP parts will fit the Norvels so I would try for those parts.
I would also CAREFULLY inspect the Norvel and determine if replacing parts will fix it.
Check the crankcase front carefully and see how the crankshaft turns with the conrod removed. Some were tight from new and the cranksheft needed to be polished. I think one guy reported a burr on the front of the crankcase causing friction against the drive washer. Perhaps you have already checked all of this.
George
I would also CAREFULLY inspect the Norvel and determine if replacing parts will fix it.
Check the crankcase front carefully and see how the crankshaft turns with the conrod removed. Some were tight from new and the cranksheft needed to be polished. I think one guy reported a burr on the front of the crankcase causing friction against the drive washer. Perhaps you have already checked all of this.
George
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RE: I've been had, again
ORIGINAL: DeviousDave
IIRC, SIG did get a small batch of parts a few months ago.
*BUT*
I've ordered from these guys, ordered 10 .074 heads (not glow heads) so they appear to have a good stock of spares: http://www.quicktechhobby.com/Engine...gine_parts.htm
IIRC, SIG did get a small batch of parts a few months ago.
*BUT*
I've ordered from these guys, ordered 10 .074 heads (not glow heads) so they appear to have a good stock of spares: http://www.quicktechhobby.com/Engine...gine_parts.htm
So, the question is, Did you actually get your parts?
I am a bit leary about Quick Tech myself and I think I will pass, unfortuneatly they do list quite a selection of Norvel parts that would be nice to have access to.
cheers, Graham
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RE: I've been had, again
Yep, Quick Tech Hobbies burned me about a year ago. I orderred and was charged for $100.00 worth of parts they had listed in stock, got $30.00 worth of them and could never get ahold of them for either the parts or a credit.
Buyer beware.
Buyer beware.
#10
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RE: I've been had, again
ORIGINAL: GrahamC
So, the question is, Did you actually get your parts?
So, the question is, Did you actually get your parts?
Sorry to hear they are hit-or-miss..[]
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RE: I've been had, again
George,
If the engine was truely over described as you say that it was, why not contact the seller and ask to return it?
If you paid with PayPal you have options through them if the seller will not work with you directly.
To me this would be a lot easier than trying to work with an engine that is basically a piece of junk...
Arlen
If the engine was truely over described as you say that it was, why not contact the seller and ask to return it?
If you paid with PayPal you have options through them if the seller will not work with you directly.
To me this would be a lot easier than trying to work with an engine that is basically a piece of junk...
Arlen
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RE: I've been had, again
My thanks to all who have replied. Looks like I've still got enough options (for parts) to get this thing running.
Andrew, thanks for the pt #s, and for the tip to use AP parts. Sig did have the head gasket shims listed, nothing else.
George, Yes, I have torn the engine down & looked it over. The crank is a bit tight, but some (all?) of that may be due to the front of crank case being damaged. Some one really abused this thing with an electric starter. Gonna clean off the seizure marks, & debur the snot. Then I'll check the crank fit again. Even though the seller said that this engine ran fine & came off of a flying airplane (whatever that means) I'm quite sure that the only revolutions that this thing made were with an electric starter. There was some foreign material between the head gasket shims, & comperssion was non exisistent. Also there is still a load of pinch near TDC. The one thing that I'm lost with, is that the crankcase was loaded with very black "stuff". Think of carbon black mixed with 30w oil. The cylinder was dry, & the piston top was clean, except for a pattern of the black "stuff" on the top at each intake port area. Using the old shims (after cleaning them up on a piece of 400 grit ) I did a quick reassembly, (with a couple of drops of light oil) to check compression. Felt good.
Well, time to order some AP parts, give this engine a through cleaning, & then wait for the parts to arrive. Thanks again. ......... George K.
Andrew, thanks for the pt #s, and for the tip to use AP parts. Sig did have the head gasket shims listed, nothing else.
George, Yes, I have torn the engine down & looked it over. The crank is a bit tight, but some (all?) of that may be due to the front of crank case being damaged. Some one really abused this thing with an electric starter. Gonna clean off the seizure marks, & debur the snot. Then I'll check the crank fit again. Even though the seller said that this engine ran fine & came off of a flying airplane (whatever that means) I'm quite sure that the only revolutions that this thing made were with an electric starter. There was some foreign material between the head gasket shims, & comperssion was non exisistent. Also there is still a load of pinch near TDC. The one thing that I'm lost with, is that the crankcase was loaded with very black "stuff". Think of carbon black mixed with 30w oil. The cylinder was dry, & the piston top was clean, except for a pattern of the black "stuff" on the top at each intake port area. Using the old shims (after cleaning them up on a piece of 400 grit ) I did a quick reassembly, (with a couple of drops of light oil) to check compression. Felt good.
Well, time to order some AP parts, give this engine a through cleaning, & then wait for the parts to arrive. Thanks again. ......... George K.
#13
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RE: I've been had, again
The black stuff is aluminum in the oil. It has run in this condition.... Usually see it at break-in with new motors, you're seeing a lot of it from the galling and case damage.
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RE: I've been had, again
ORIGINAL: Silvaire
George,
If the engine was truely over described as you say that it was, why not contact the seller and ask to return it?
If you paid with PayPal you have options through them if the seller will not work with you directly.
To me this would be a lot easier than trying to work with an engine that is basically a piece of junk...
Arlen
George,
If the engine was truely over described as you say that it was, why not contact the seller and ask to return it?
If you paid with PayPal you have options through them if the seller will not work with you directly.
To me this would be a lot easier than trying to work with an engine that is basically a piece of junk...
Arlen
Arlen, Been there, done that. Admittedly, the return is not going through because of my non-comprimising "hard-headedness". My feeling is that since the description was such a total falsehood, why should I have to be out $18.00 for the two way shipping. Obviously, the seller disagrees. At this point, I could probably get the needed parts for less than $18, spend a few hours on the engine, leave the jerk (seller) some bad feed-back, & still have a running engine. ..................... George K.
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RE: I've been had, again
Cp, i think you'll find that Quick Tech is the same company and guy that took me for $200 last yr his name is Larry Quick and might even be at the same location in Missouri, i tryed to prossecute him for mail fraud but he skipped town , be very very careful with this slug! Also search this site and the thread "Just a heads up!!" that i and others commented on
#17
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RE: I've been had, again
I ordered some parts from them (recently)as well.
Got him on the phone (just once) and they said they would contact me when ready to ship.
Heard nothing - so within 30days of payment, I filed a complaint with my credit card company and then I received a partial order minus the most expensive item - 30% of order invoice..
It really is a shame that he can't provide any decent communication because his prices are not any less than full retail and he should be able to absorb the overhead.
Got him on the phone (just once) and they said they would contact me when ready to ship.
Heard nothing - so within 30days of payment, I filed a complaint with my credit card company and then I received a partial order minus the most expensive item - 30% of order invoice..
It really is a shame that he can't provide any decent communication because his prices are not any less than full retail and he should be able to absorb the overhead.
#19
RE: I've been had, again
I dipped my widdle toesies in that auction site, and I got lucky! Scored a NIB Norvel .074 and the seller threw in gratis a .061 head button!
I also acquired a Flyline Kinner Sportster kit. I always wanted one
I also picked up a Dumas Waco from Tower. I know it's s'posed to be for electric, but I figure I can shoehorn a slimer into it somehow.
I also acquired a Flyline Kinner Sportster kit. I always wanted one
I also picked up a Dumas Waco from Tower. I know it's s'posed to be for electric, but I figure I can shoehorn a slimer into it somehow.
#20
RE: I've been had, again
So I'm looking at this Dumas kit....apparently the lecky guys never have to get inside their models to check or replace things like servos and whatnot? This kit has you build the radio into the model, cover everything, then glue the wings on. I can only assume these guys fly 'em until they crash...then they get access again?
Oh did I forget the stern warning in the instructions that liquid-fueled engines are really really BAD for this kit? This is truly funny.
Oh did I forget the stern warning in the instructions that liquid-fueled engines are really really BAD for this kit? This is truly funny.
#21
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RE: I've been had, again
It happened to me a while back, too. I got a TD .049 that had the venturi epoxied into the plastic body; the threaded area had been stretched, but not split. I was able to clean the plastic part, smear JB Weld around inside the threads and re-tap it. It seems to be holding, but I'd like to get one of Patrick's sleeves to fit around the outside, too. The engine came with a KK NV and a good HC head and I got it for $22 so I didn't bother to contact the seller. I probably should have.
I'm not making excuses for sellers, but a lot of these folks selling r/c engines know next to nothing about them. The bright side is that you can usually recognize the sellers who actually know what they're selling. FWIW, I now disassemble, check and bench run every engine I sell and I describe every flaw down to non-original parts like replaced bolts and/or missing gaskets and shims (when I first started selling engines I didn't always do this).
David
I'm not making excuses for sellers, but a lot of these folks selling r/c engines know next to nothing about them. The bright side is that you can usually recognize the sellers who actually know what they're selling. FWIW, I now disassemble, check and bench run every engine I sell and I describe every flaw down to non-original parts like replaced bolts and/or missing gaskets and shims (when I first started selling engines I didn't always do this).
David
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RE: I've been had, again
]
UPDATE............ Well, followed Andrew's advice, & ordered the drive collet assembly (plus a bunch of other future spares) from GLOBAL's AP .061 parts list. Jeeze, why can't everybody give this kind of service? Within 2 hrs of placing my order, they e-mailed me, saying that my parts were in the mail. While waiting for the postman, cleaned a few thou off the crankcase snout, to remove all the galling damaged area, then set to cleaning all the "black death" goop out of the engine. I won't mention how much time I spent on the clean-up. Every time that I thought I had it clean, a wipe with a piece of paper towel or Q-Tip would prove me wrong. Under a magnifying glass, the piston showed a "few million" verticle scratches. However, just with my reading glasses on, I couldn't see them. Also, I couldn't feel them with my thumb nail either, so just gave the piston a wipe with a well used crankshaft polishing cloth, then a good cleaning. The AP drive collet assembly was slightly longer than the amt. of crankshaft available on the norvel. I got an extra .010 by using a separately packaged, thinner, (.020" vs .030") drive washer. I placed the split in the collet 180 deg from the flat in the Norvel crank, & assembled the unit. The collet still overhangs the end of the crank, by about .030" but appears to have a good grip, & it runs true.
Test run, 70 deg in the great room, prop was a MAS 5&1/2X4 cut down to 5" dia., fuel was 15% nitro, 20 % castor (with a tad of castor added to the top of the gallon)., three norvel shims which were a little thinner than normal, after I cleaned them up. I had ordered some spare AP shims, but wow, were those things ever rough. Someone here said they looked like they were cut out of old Coors beer cans. I agree. (Oh well, at least that gives a reason for buying Coors. I myself, prefer Moosehead). After a short warm up with the heat gun, fired the thing up, & slowly leaned it out, as it got a little temperature. Peaked about 20,200, a little shy of another Norvel .061 engine that I have, but that one is well broken in. The castor fog in the house, & all the racket from the smoke alarms limited the run to only a few min.. After a cooldown, tried to spin the engione over. Still a load of "pinch" at/near TDC. Looks like it might be a pretty good engine, after break-in. Cost of the collet assby. was $3.50 , postage was $2.99, prop Screw & washer at the local Hdwr store was < $1.00.
Sorry 'bout being so long-winded, but with the Norvel parts situation being what it is, thought that I'd verify what Andrew said & print the results. Hopefully this experience may help someone else. .................. George K.
UPDATE............ Well, followed Andrew's advice, & ordered the drive collet assembly (plus a bunch of other future spares) from GLOBAL's AP .061 parts list. Jeeze, why can't everybody give this kind of service? Within 2 hrs of placing my order, they e-mailed me, saying that my parts were in the mail. While waiting for the postman, cleaned a few thou off the crankcase snout, to remove all the galling damaged area, then set to cleaning all the "black death" goop out of the engine. I won't mention how much time I spent on the clean-up. Every time that I thought I had it clean, a wipe with a piece of paper towel or Q-Tip would prove me wrong. Under a magnifying glass, the piston showed a "few million" verticle scratches. However, just with my reading glasses on, I couldn't see them. Also, I couldn't feel them with my thumb nail either, so just gave the piston a wipe with a well used crankshaft polishing cloth, then a good cleaning. The AP drive collet assembly was slightly longer than the amt. of crankshaft available on the norvel. I got an extra .010 by using a separately packaged, thinner, (.020" vs .030") drive washer. I placed the split in the collet 180 deg from the flat in the Norvel crank, & assembled the unit. The collet still overhangs the end of the crank, by about .030" but appears to have a good grip, & it runs true.
Test run, 70 deg in the great room, prop was a MAS 5&1/2X4 cut down to 5" dia., fuel was 15% nitro, 20 % castor (with a tad of castor added to the top of the gallon)., three norvel shims which were a little thinner than normal, after I cleaned them up. I had ordered some spare AP shims, but wow, were those things ever rough. Someone here said they looked like they were cut out of old Coors beer cans. I agree. (Oh well, at least that gives a reason for buying Coors. I myself, prefer Moosehead). After a short warm up with the heat gun, fired the thing up, & slowly leaned it out, as it got a little temperature. Peaked about 20,200, a little shy of another Norvel .061 engine that I have, but that one is well broken in. The castor fog in the house, & all the racket from the smoke alarms limited the run to only a few min.. After a cooldown, tried to spin the engione over. Still a load of "pinch" at/near TDC. Looks like it might be a pretty good engine, after break-in. Cost of the collet assby. was $3.50 , postage was $2.99, prop Screw & washer at the local Hdwr store was < $1.00.
Sorry 'bout being so long-winded, but with the Norvel parts situation being what it is, thought that I'd verify what Andrew said & print the results. Hopefully this experience may help someone else. .................. George K.
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RE: I've been had, again
ORIGINAL: rainedave
I'm not making excuses for sellers, but a lot of these folks selling r/c engines know next to nothing about them. The bright side is that you can usually recognize the sellers who actually know what they're selling. FWIW, I now disassemble, check and bench run every engine I sell and I describe every flaw down to non-original parts like replaced bolts and/or missing gaskets and shims (when I first started selling engines I didn't always do this).
David
I'm not making excuses for sellers, but a lot of these folks selling r/c engines know next to nothing about them. The bright side is that you can usually recognize the sellers who actually know what they're selling. FWIW, I now disassemble, check and bench run every engine I sell and I describe every flaw down to non-original parts like replaced bolts and/or missing gaskets and shims (when I first started selling engines I didn't always do this).
David
Thats the difference in dealing with a "Modeler" and dealing with a seller of a modeling item. I have never had a bad experience dealing with a "modeler" both as buyer and seller.
Ralph