kingbee

Hello,
I've decided to try something this spring that I've wanted to do for years- rudder only flying. I've read over a lot of the old posts here on RCU and I've discovered that there's a wealth of experience amongst the members here.

So, choice of plane- I have an old Ace Whizard that's been half built for 20+ years. I had originally planned to install a TD in it and fly it on R/E but I lost interest in it a long time ago. Now I'm considering putting a Babe Bee on it and flying it R/O. Good choice? I'd probably need to build a new fuse since I already buried a fuel tank in the nose, and I really don't think I need that landing gear either. The instructions do say it can be flown single channel but they don't give any specifics as to set-up vs. 2 channel. I'd guess a bit more downthrust would be in order, as well as a more forward CG. Any other tips?

Or is there another plane I should be looking at? The Whizard has the advantage that I already own it, and if past history is any indication, I'll never do anything else with it.

Regarding radio- as much as I'd like to install a vintage Ace Pulse Commander, I think they're out of the budget, so I'll just use a 3 or 4 channel radio with a single servo- not authentic but that's okay.

I'd appreciate any flying tips, as well as set-up advice, either general or Whizard-specific.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Dave

gabe200

My Feedback: (21)

the minnie mambo is a good one that was rudder only and you can get a kit

Andrew

I would recommend the Minnie Mambo also. I have had both the Whizard and Mambo (although both were R/E) and think the Mambo would probably be the better choice. Mambo kits can be purchased from [link=http://www.selecthobbies.com/]Select Hobbies.[/link]

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

If you want to do the Whizard..since you need a servo/rx/battery anyway, just put in an elevator servo anyway,,that way yo have a safety factor and, if it wont fly with rudder only once you set it up..then you have a 2 channel plane and a bit more experience...and you dont have to fill the tank,, although if its 20 years old too,,then yeah I would replace it....Rog

Yuu

That Whizard is a 'lead sled'. I and two friends each had one. Best thing to do with it is to put an .09 on it...and a streamer and go fly combat. Of course, some guys on this forum would put a .15 on it....

dennis

My Feedback: (90)

Actually the model is not a lead sled if built and flown as designed. I did fly one of these as a R/O when they were first introduced, Used an Ace R/O with a standard actuator and had a lot of flights with it.Changed it over to a TD 049 and did most or the old R/O pattern with it. Had enough power to do consecutive loops and did reasonably nice barrell rolls, oh it spins well also.
point is use light equipment, if your using a Baby Bee or any of the milder Cox motors then I'd put the smallest stuff in that you feel comfortable with. I would assume that you know how to trim a single channel model to fly.
Have fun,
Dennis

rrengineer

My Feedback: (3)

I think the Minnie Mambo or a Jr Falcon are the perfect choice for single channel flying. Either one would be good using a regular Babe Bee .049 engine and they are both available from Bob Harris' old Early R/C company now owned by Wing Manufacturing. A single servo would serve the same purpose as a flapping Adams actuator and give you the same flight characteristics as pulse rudder only flying. I have many small publications on rudder only flying and building and trimming techniques. I can send you a copy of the Ace manual that came with all Ace Pulse radios. I will scan it and send by email if you would like. It has trimming and flying instructions for rudder only. Once you get the basics, it really is fun to fly the plane at your field and try to explain how you do all those manuevers with only a rudder.

kingbee

I have considered the Jr Falcon as I have a set of plans for it as well as a good supply of balsa, so I could scratchbuild one. The Mambo has long been one of my favorites too. Are plans available for it anywhere? I'd just as soon scratchbuild one since I have all this balsa. Again, one of the advantages to the Whizard is that I have it, it's paid for, and it's just collecting dust.

Is it underpowered with a Babe Bee? I also have a TD for it but it seemed like overkill for rudder only. If I do build a new fuse, I'll be able to select better, lighter wood than the junk the Ace kit had. And, as mentioned, the heavy LG is not really needed either.

rrengineer, I'd be grateful if you would scan and email me the manual you mentioned. The more info the better, right? I have an old (early '60s) booklet published by Winston Publishers called "Control by Radio". It contains an article on trimming & flying single channel planes, written by the late great Ken Willard. Interesting stuff, and it makes me want to try it.

Thanks for the advice so far.

Cheers,
Dave

rrengineer

My Feedback: (3)

Plans for the Jr Falcon is available on Dave Fritzke's web site (http://my.pclink.com/~dfritzke/), but I have not seen plans for a Minnie Mambo. I have an original Minnie Mambo kit I have not built yet. It is only missing the landing gear. The plans do not show the separate parts you need to cut for the construction. It only refers to the numbered parts in the instructions on the plans.

BMatthews

The Mini Mambo is small enough that it'll be more than adequitely powered with a Sure Start that is decently set up and run in.

rrengineer

My Feedback: (3)

In fact, if you have a Testors McCoy .049 or even a O.K. Cub .049 you would probably have enough power for a Minnie Mambo.

lildiesel

I had the same experience with the ACE Wizard I helped a friend build as his first plane about twenty years ago. A reedie .049 just wouldn't do it and an .09 made it a rocket ship. What a mistake. Nobody ever seems to be able to lay off the throttle a bit and just cruise...

The plans for the Jr. Falcon are to be found at Dave Fritzke's site and it makes a pretty good flyer if built light. The Jr. Skylark plans are there two, and I consider it the much more attractive of the two.

Fravits

I am currently restoring a Minnie Mambo myself. Haven't picked an engine yet, but it will probably be a Golden Bee or a McCoy. Previously, mine was TeeDee powered, was R/E, and was used for 1/2A pylon racing way back when. I can make you a copy of plans, complete with a set of patterns. PM me if interested. By the way, the Goldberg 1/2A Skylane is a real winner also. Somewhat fussy to build and can be a bit heavy, but there has never been a smoother flying R/O aircraft. Good luck!

BMatthews

Kingbee, did you find my notes on how to trim and fly rudder only? I've typed them up at least once and perhaps twice for some of the guys in other threads.

kingbee

Fravits-
I'd certainly be interested in a copy of the MM plans. I've PM'd you. Thanks for the offer.

Bruce-
I've read through all the single channel threads I can find, both here and on RCG, and haven't found the trimming notes you're referring to. Can you point me in the right direction?

Regarding other designs, I have the Jr. Falcon plan from Dave Fritzke's site, and it's a possibility. I do prefer "cabin" type models though so the Mambo is more likely the one I'd build if I don't wind up using the Whizard. I also have an unbuilt Jr. Skylark kit but I don't want to use it as my first rudder only model.

Regarding powerplants- I've been going through a box of .049 engines somebody gave me a while back, cleaning up the ones that are all there and getting them running. I've been laid off this week, and it's been great fun firing them up in the basement (too cold outside!). My wife's about to strangle me! Anyway the Cox reedies all have the small tanks, which seem to give me a little over a minute and a half of run. Is that enough? A couple of the motors have the plastic backplates from the Cox C/L planes; I could use one of those with a separate tank if I want more run time. Do I?

There was also a Testor's McCoy .049 in the box. From what I've read, these are not as powerful as the Cox motors. True? I haven't gotten this one going yet but I hope to today, and I'll tach it and see how it compares. It sure is cute though.

Thanks for all your advice so far. I'm really starting to get stoked about this, too bad spring is so far off.

Cheers,
Dave

BMatthews

Let me look around with the Search here. It may have needed some oddball keywords. Also I believe that it was in the old Lynn Sipes thread on rudder only. If so I'll copy and quote it back here or in another new thread so it doesn't get mislaid again.

rrengineer

My Feedback: (3)

I've got an original Minnie Mambo kit, but the landing gear is missing. It was the aluminum Dural type. I can't seem to find the right size for it. I need one that fits across a 2 3/4 inch fuselage. Anyone know where to get one?

Andrew

The gear for the SIG Hummer should fit nicely. Search for part no. SIGRPBA250 on the [link=http://www.sigmfg.com]SIG[/link] site.

rrengineer

My Feedback: (3)

Thank you Andrew. I'll check it out. Great Planes makes a landing gear, but it is about 1/2 too short across where it attaches to the fuse.

Andrew

My Minnie is about 2 5/16" outside width at the gear mount location. The bends on the HUMMER gear are at 2 1/4" -- it's an ideal fit for bolt on gear, but would probably be too narrow for banded gear. I drew up a set of building guides from a set of kit plans and I don't believe the width was shown anywhere, so I just used the TLAR approach.

BMatthews

That's actually a perfect size for banded gear. It's nice when the gear bends are a hair inboard of the sides. That makes the gear bands run down and in and that'll help self center the gear. If the bends are outboard from the sides you can end up with a bit of skewing and side to side offset that needs to be corrected before each takeoff.

jfuller

My Feedback: (8)

HI,

I am an old time (heavy on the old) R/C flier and cut my teeth on single channel models. I got the urge to try it again a few years ago and built a 36" wingspan scaledown of the deBolt Live Wire Trainer. I went all the way on it and flew it rudder only with an old Ace single channel set with a Babcock single channel escapement. It flew a heck of a lot better than I remembered that it did when I built it in 1960. Some of that was because I wasn't afraid of it as I was in 1960. It would do loops and rolls no problem. I used a Cox Golden Bee for power. GO FOR IT!
James Fuller

rc doc

I have an ACE Whizard that I flew several years ago with the Ace pulse comander radio. Iused an Cox black widow motor on it. I enjoyed flying it at the time as it was very forgiving. I still have the plane ,engine and radioand plan to fly it again this summer. I may put two channels in it later. I have no experence with the Mambo. I flew a Golgberg junior Falcon with a Fox 10 ,and Galloping Ghost radio for a while and did some rough loops and barrel rolls until I drove into atree and put the engine back at the Leading edge.
I think that the combo of the pulse rudder and Cox reedie is a fun setup. If you arn't happy then go to the two or three channel radio.
Jhon Smith [RC DOC]

BMatthews

Kingbee, sorry I got mislaid and didn't look up the material on trimming. Seems I'm doing that a lot lately.

There was a thread running almost a year back with a rudder only build and it stalled out before we saw many models finish up. I'm going to resurrect it and see what happened to the folks in there.

But in the meantime I think it's time to do a write up of how I trimmed mind and let some others toss in there ideas as well... But it's a bit after midnight now. Tomorrow please.

kingbee

Bruce,
I'll look forward to your write-up. Meanwhile, rrengineer has kindly sent me a copy of the trimming guide from Ace, and I also have an old booklet from the early '60s with a Ken Willard article on rudder only trimming. But I'm always open to more info.

I'm leaning toward building a mambo, or possibly a Jr Falcon, although I'll probably go ahead and finish the Whizard as well since it's really just needs sanding and finishing anyway. We've got lots and lots of nice soft snow on the ground right now- should be great for test glides. Starting the engine might be a bit of a problem in the cold though...

By the way Bruce, I came across one of your C/L designs, the Cadet, and since my "back to basics" binge includes the desire to give C/L another try (after the usual failures as a kid with plastic Cox planes), I'll be PMing you with a few questions, but not till tomorrow because it's past my bedtime now (0430 gets here real quick).

Cheers,
Dave