prole

My Feedback: (3)

Ok guys, thanks to BipeFlyer I finially have a shot of my plans that I can post fo you.

I am not going to call this a Taylor Craft anymore because in looking at my final drawings compared to the 3 view that I started from it is pretty obvious that I didn't really capture the lines of the T-Craft. What is scale about my plane is that all of the moments are the same as the T-Craft. I squared out the Fuselage and changed the nose to enable me to have easy access to the engine. I figure since I am experimenting, if I leave the engine completely open I am in no way hindered from trying out different things. I am toying with the idea of making the firewall detachable to make engine swapping even easier.

I also chose to go with a tapered wing instead of the constant chord to give me the added wing area. I figured that I would need all that I could manage. The wing is foam core (thanks again BipeFlyer) sheeted with 1/32" balsa in the cap strip method. When I get some pics of the wings I will post them. The cores came out really nice.

Here is a shot of the plans

prole

My Feedback: (3)

I began construction on Monday and I took a shot as I was framing up the fuselage. As things take shape I will add pictures accordingly.

Here is a shot of the printed out plans and the first pieces of the built up fuse

DICKEYBIRD

Way to go Tim....it looks great! Just a couple weeks ago you couldn't even spell CAD draftsman and now you is one! I'm real happy for you. Hey, that's a good looking engine you got there!

How 'bout Tim-Cart or Tim-Craft?

DICKEYBIRD

Tim, if you haven't already, you might think about sheeting in the nose section to make sure the engine vibration doesn't break loose the sticks up there. You'll probably need the nose weight anyway. Just a friendly suggestion.

Digger-RCU

Prole, That is sweet, I really like the high wing full fuse type planes. I am really impressed that you just learned to do the CAD stuff. Cant wait to see more pictures.

Randy (Digger) Birt

av8rsodt

My Feedback: (23)

Prole,

Your project looks like it is coming along! Great job on the CAD work.

Av8sodt

prole

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks DickeyBird, any suggestions at all, please pass them along. oh and thanks for the engine drawing, it looks nice up there huh.

All of the framing stickes are 3/16 square and the bigger stuff for the tail surfaces is 3/16 x 3/8. I am going to sheet the whole inside of the cabin/servo compartment with 1/16" sheet and the bottom from the nose to about half way down with 3/32" cross grain sheet. I got a piece of 3/16x4x36 to make to odd shaped pieces on the fuse, the tips of the tail surfaces and the elevators. I was thinking about making the two nose pieces out of the 3/16 sheet as well, just to beef it up a little.

It was an after thought, do you think that will help or is that overkill. I want to make the top piece of the nose a hatch so beefing up the sides will give me a better surface to attach it to.

If you see anything else that looks if-y, please let me know.


Digger, Thanks, it's just like anything else, I really wanted to know how to use it, so I just sat and tinkered until I got it. I feel like there is so much that I still don't know, but everytime I get on it I learn a little bit more.

You should check it out, there is a link in Dickeybirds "Wierd things wirh whirly wings" thread. It's free, and worth every penny .


as always,
the prole

Bipe Flyer

When in doubt, go for weight savings over strength.

I probably over build a bit, but I try to go light. For example I don't use anything over 3/32" sheet on my ½A stuff and I use 3/16"X1/4" sticks for the tail surfaces on .46 size planes.

The plane is looking really good. I can hardly wait to see more pictures.

You seem to be picking up Turbocad really fast. Here's a list of some of the tools which I find most useful.

Rubber Stamp - Right click on an object.
Snap to "Nearest on Graphic" - Shift+N
Snap to "Intersection" - Shift+I
Trim tool
Use a parallel line instead of a double line. This is especially useful if you need to resize a drawing.
Use the construction lines for lining up objects.

Hope this is of some help. Use what you find helpful and ignore the rest of it.

prole

My Feedback: (3)

Dickeybird,

I thought more about what you said about the side pieces for the nose and I decided that it would be worth the weight.

I busted out the tracing paper and manufactured 2 front pieces and while I was at it I made the tail pieces as well.


DO you think this will be OK

prole

My Feedback: (3)

....and here is some stick work to make you proud.


that's 100% pure Titebond, no CA here....

I had to stop to let it all **DRY** before I could take it off and sheet the radio compartment....



i'm no cheater.

DICKEYBIRD

Lookin' good Tim! Isn't it a great feeling to be creating something that's your very own design? Wait 'til the 1st flight...what a rush!

jboy381-RCU

great job tim.i want to be there to see it fly.we'll but it on video. talk to you later.john

LoneRanger

My Feedback: (1)

wow, there is other glue besides CA and Epoxy?


Nah, must be a myth!




lookin sharp!

L.R.

MR Flyer57

What is the name of the cad program you are using and where can I a copy? You seem to like it and I think three people have already mentioned it. I have never used one so I would like to start with one people like.
Marshall

jboy381-RCU

tim,
is your plane RTF yet? see you saturday.john

Bipe Flyer

I am using Turbocad 2D which was free at one time. I think prole is using the same because he sent me a Turbocad file. It looks like Turbocad 2D has been replaced with Turbocad LE. You can download it for free from the Turbocad site.
http://www.imsisoft.com/free/

prole

My Feedback: (3)

yup, that's the one...

Thanks Bipe Flyer, I completely forgot that question was just left open... DOH

I didn't know that you were using the same one, is that what you run your CNC off of? If not, then even in seeing all of the nice drawings that you post on here of your ideas gives me a lot of hope, it's a great program. The fact that I have drawn what I have, with no help and little to no CAD experience is a testament to that.

Sorry about that Mr Flyer 57...

the forgetful prole

prole

My Feedback: (3)

back to work on the plane...

Got pretty side-tracked with that cool engine that I was fussing with, now that it's all set, it's time to huff some glue...

Here are the sides of the fuse, with the fuel tank and servo compartment sheeted.

prole

My Feedback: (3)

I have a little experience with sheeting foam wings with balsa. Before I moved I was working on an Ace simple Mustang that I got as far as the sheeted wings before I had to pack it up.

I got foam cores for this guy and I wanted to try something new. On the Mustang I used Pacer Z-poxy and it worked pretty good, it was light and easy to work with.

I had been hearing a lot about Elmers Pro-Bond and 3m Super 77, I have a few more kits on the way that have foam wings so I want to get some method down.

First I tried the ProBond and I was happy with it at first, it seemed to spread well, and the fact that it needed a little bit of moisture to bond helped in bending the balsa into place. I left it to dry overnight and when I came back I had found that the glue had foamed up while drying and it made hard globs of dried glue running all down the edge of where I had stopped. Now I cleaned up all of the extra glue and was very careful not to leave any on the foam or elsewhere. This totally came out from underneath it. I put the probond away at that point.

Since then I have been using the 3M Super 77 and really liking it. It cleans up really easily with paint thinner, it sprays on and if you let it tack first, it sets pretty quick.

Cleaning up the mess from the probond has proven to be a pretty tedious task, it still looks pretty sloppy to me, hopefully when it is all sheeted it will turn out OK. I'm gonna have to practice with that a little bit before I go spreading it all over again.

I am using the LE/TE/Cap Strip method, the bottoms are fully sheeted. Here is a shot of the tops

Check out the Craftsmen Scroll saw in the background, 8 bucks at a yard sale last weekend

prole

My Feedback: (3)

On the leading edges I used a trick that I learned from BipeFlyer.

You take a sheet of 1/32" balsa and cut it to fit the length of the wing and to fold over the top and bottom of the leading edge. You wet the balsa sheet and bend it into a D shaped tube secure it with rubber bands and let it dry.

When it dries it retains the shape, spray some glue on the inside and you have a really clean bend on the front of the wing, it worked great and was super easy.

I got my cores from Bipe Flyer as well as one of his kits and he included a sheet with techniques on sheeting the cores. It has helped me out so much, this little trick is from there, if you ever have questions on this topic, he seems to be the go to guy.


here is a shot of the bottoms

Bipe Flyer

The wings are looking good. No, not the cores... the sheeting.

3m77 is easy to use and if done properly, shouldn't cause any problems.

It sounds like you may have spread on the Pro Bond too thick. It does foam up ad it cures, but that's what makes it work so well. Try spreading it on with something like a playing card. The wood should look wet, but not coated with a thick layer of glue. Test it on some scrap foam until you get the results you like.

prole

My Feedback: (3)

I know that I should have done that FIRST, before I ever even got close to those cores. Unfortunately I didn't, and I was so bummed to come back the next day and see these thick beads of dried glue running down both sides of the TE. On the back side it was no problem. I was just going to sand it even with the basla anyway, but I have had to cut it out from in front of the leading edge. If you look close you can kind of see it. The sheeting dips down just a touch as it meets the TE. I am hoping that a little putty and a little sanding will even everything out.

This is what I did, tell me if it sounds about right. I sprayed both the TE and the core with a spray bottle and some water, spread a layer of probond over both surfaces with a scrap piece of balsa, let it sit for a couple minutes, give them both another misting and joined them.

I put a good layer on, in thinking back, it was much too thick, from what you said I guess that I need only a very thin layer? Just enough to look wet, huh? Mine looked gooey...

It was nice though, the bond held and set fast enough that I didn't need a million pins, but was easy to move evan after they touched.

Like I said, I was really happy with it before I left for the night, and I an a freak about neatness, I cleaned all of the glue off the balsa and the cores. I hate being able to see glue everywhere, it's a peeve of mine.


The Super 77 is working great, it is the best method so far. I do want to try this probond again, and you're right, I just have to practice.

Anyway, that instruction sheet you put with the cores is great Andrew. I wish that I had it when I did my Mustang wings, your's is so much better than the one they put with the Ace R/C kits. It's kind of funny though, I have a bunch of old Ace kits from the 50's and 60's and they came with that exact same sheet on working with the foam wings, the same one they come with now. You should look into that, maybe they need some help updating...


the glue crazy prole

Bipe Flyer

Ok, it sounds like you just went a little overboard with the glue and water. As I mentioned earlier, just a thin coat on the wood. Place each sheet of balsa on the foam and then tape all the seams. Now just spray some water on the outside of the skins. Enough moisture will soak through to activate the glue. If possible, you should put the cores back in their saddles and weight them down on a flat surface. I use a 18" X 4' piece of MDF to weigh down the cores. If you don't have the saddles, which you didn't because I couldn't fit them into the box, you can use a bunch of magazines or sand bags to weigh the wing down.

Typically I use Pro Bond on larger wings and 3M77 on smaller ones or where I do the D- tube & cap stripping method.

Make sure you seal the cap of your Pro Bond with electrical tape after using it. I had a bottle go bad because it absorbed moisture from the air.

What, moisture in Vancouver? No really it's true! :drowning:

MR Flyer57

Just another two cents,

The guys that use Pro Bond here had the same trouble with it slopping all over. They used less and less until they were scraping it off with a credit card. They would put the Pro Bond on the cores and the mist the wood.

It has a violent reaction and will lift the skins off if too much is used. In the test pieces that were used it seemed the thinner the better (to a point), and lots of weight while the cores were back in the saddles.

When we cut the test pieces apart, the Pro Bond had forced its way deep into the foam cores and bonded very tightly to the skins without any extra coming out and forming those beads of foam junk.

We then ripped them up to see what would let go first and it was really remarkable that you could not make the skins come off of the cores.

Super 77 seems to work ok, and best if the shrink covering that is used over the wings to finish them is applied the same day.

I have had them come loose but not very often and only on large wings.

The Scimitars that we build use a different approach that I haven't seen anywhere else. They send double sided tape, like carpet tape with the kits.
It holds as well as super 77 and though I have only used it once myself it proved to be a easy clean way to skin the cores. No drying time and no mess.

Like Super 77, I think that to keep the bond you need to use heat shrink covering. The tape works on large models and it might stiffen the wings a little also.

I have never tried to pre form the balsa skins before applying them to the cores, sounds like another no brainer that someone has to point out to me.

Bipe Flyer

While we're talking about sheeting methods. Don't forget good old white glue. Spread a coat on the balsa and let it dry overnight then simply iron the skin onto the foam. I've used this method a couple of times and it works well. The glue seems to melt into the foam creating a really good bond. The skins don't delaminate and you can't even remove them by re-heating them with the iron.