MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Okay guys, I'm a platinum member of the Procrastinator's Guild, so I need a boost to tell me this is worth doing and that I should do so and report back post-haste!

I have these two '70's FAI .15's, both have crankcase pressure taps and FF venturis. Note the sample CF arrow shafts behind them. And also I've recently maidened my Blink and joined the small delta fraternity.

So... when I picked these up to put back in the small engine drawer, I had a vision - of a .15 sized Blink shaped DD type thingie. Perhaps I could call it the Blank, or the Blankety-Blank, or #$%^ for short. Okay, that's it then, name solved.

Anyone know much about these engines. What I "know" about the Conquest is that it is a Cox produced engine intended for use in FAI competition, and in its day had decent power output but as I recall was not king of the hill. And I can order the carb and muffler for it.

The AD is obviously for the same purpose, but I have no data on it. Any ex-FAI power heads here? Yeah I can go bug them but this is one of my two favorite forums and .15's count, at least as far as I am concerned! [8D]

Should I pipe these? Both would accomodate a pipe if I had one, although the Conquest can be fitted with a muffler and carb leading me to wonder how "pipe-timed" it is? I wonder the same but again dunno about the AD.

And the main question - should I do the .15 delta thing? (hint: yes)

Now to start designing and drawing!

MJD

fizzwater2

My Feedback: (61)

Can't say anything about the ADS engine, but the conquest wasn't really "pipe timed", as such. We ran them in .15 quarter midget with a "mini-pipe", a straight walled tube about 4 1/2-5" long if I remember correctly.

Ground RPM was about 22K or thereabouts. Props usually started out as 7-5's or 7-4 1/2-s, diameter and blade trimmed in width a little to get up to that RPM range.

I have a couple of conquests, and was thinking that a tuned muffler thing like the ones that MVVS has for their small engines would be the neat setup.

Post your questions over on the "general racing" forum, there's a guy that hangs around there from time to time with lots of Conquest .15 experience - he used to modify them for racing, used ABC internal parts, etc. I have one of his engines, it's nice.

For quarter midget, the conquest faded in favor of the Nelson .15.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Mike, I've built a couple .15 powered deltas and they were dogs. Maybe 80 mph? Pretty much shrunken Diamond Dusts, one with a CVA .15, the other with a ST.15 and 7x5 props.
The planes that look like time better spent [to me] are those 400 class racers. A balsa sheet wing version could be tried. I think Eliminator Props has some 6.5x6 or so props that would allow some decent revvage.

BTW, thankyou very much for those Top Secret Fuel Cells you've been working on. I wonder what Customs would have thought if they saw what was in the box? [8D]

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

My flying buddy has a Sunracer Ukraine-made composite 400-size racer, with a Neu 16-15-3 or something like that. Supposed to be a 160 mph package. I am waiting impatiently for him to bring it out to the field so I can test fly it... [sm=angry.gif]

I saw in one of those Speedcup galleries or the like, where a fellow had done just that with a piped 3.5cc something on the front. The engine or pipe were not cowled, it looked like a top fuel drag airplane. Apparently it was a disappointment and was handily beaten by electrics - at least that is what I read in a comment about it.

So.. you got them? I was going to ask you today as a matter of fact. Hmmm... plastic micro-bongs? Artificial cat heart prototype? You'll note there is no small silicone tubing anywhere - I don't touch the stuff except for .020's and .010's. The blue PU tubing has a larger ID and doesn't collapse easily. Got anything these will fit in for immediate field trials???? Huh??? I'm not impatient, no sir.. [sm=bananahead.gif]. But seriously now, please let me know what you think so far!

MJD

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I've got a 10 oz PBF with a VA on it. Right now it is using a 2 oz Hayes tank. It will make an ideal guinea pig. If I walked into a bank with a bunch of these tanks strapped to my forehead......[8D]

Naturally the electric motored job will leave the glow version avec le junk hanging out look sick, even a cowl can only do so much good. For really hot set ups, I'm a firm believer in having a servo operated remote needle.

If you are hell bent to build a delta, my .15 powered attempts had about 28 inches of span and most likely were too big. I remember one of them weighing 29 ozs RTF with a tuned pipe. I built a 25 incher that is pretty quick with a Cyclon .061. There was another [GLAMF] that used a GZ, again not as fast as the same engine on a high aspect plane.
The ideal size for a .15 delta might be in the 26-27 inch range?
Look at Bruce Mathew's "SWIFT" drawings. It is a good looking compromise between delta simplicity and higher aspect dynamics. I'm sure he won't care if you build it, [you know he never will ].

Larry Driskill

[quote]ORIGINAL: combatpigg

I've got a 10 oz PBF with a VA on it. Right now it is using a 2 oz Hayes tank. It will make an ideal guinea pig. If I walked into a bank with a bunch of these tanks strapped to my forehead......



Pigg, could you post a photo before you walk in the bank in costume.

And please post some separate (piggless) photos of the tanks. I must have missed the discussion and don't know what you are talking about.


MJD, I'd use the Cox (you can get aftermarket piston and cylinders too) and no pipe. Plus, if you stick with the FF venturi I'll bet it will seem plenty fast the first few flights.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Hey Larry, here's a couple of shots of flying prototypes 1 and 2, one on the Blink and a blurry one in my grubby fingers. So far it is working quite well, meaning it is just doing its job without causing any difficulties so that is good. I tried quite a few variations in the assembly techniques and materials, and so far this iteration is quite easy to assemble and nearly always comes out leak-tight. I made 6 or 7 last weekend to check them out in mini assembly line fashion, and I managed to make 2 with a minor leak at the vent fitting, but that can be remedied. The one in my fingers is the second version - forget vinyl tape anywhere near the engine, oil creeps under and debonds it at a brisk rate. This stuff doesn't do that, it is fuel proof.

- MJD

Larry Driskill

MJD, Thank You.

What's inside the cannister?

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

A latex bladder, but it's not a Trojan . I've soaked them in 45% fuel for days and they seem alright, so at this point I am not worried about life span. When one wears through I'll start thinking about it!

MJD

build light

I never thought about using a bladder in one of those film canisters... I bet it is a great way to cut down on foaming and for that matter any king of air bubbles. Am i right in my thinking here or am I off base?

Robert

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

That's it - the prime directive of bladder tanks is to eliminate foaming and air bubbles, giving a more consistent run and the ability to adjust the needle closer to (not at of course..) peak rpm without allowing for sucking air. Bladders are not just a great way, they're the hot ticket to accomplish that. The bladder is ideally made from a thin, tough, flexible, and totally fuel-proof membrane (want fries with that too?) with the low pressures we deal with on muffler pressurized systems. This one uses latex, which will behave as fuel-proof for a good while, but eventually will deteriorate. I was and still am working on PE membranes, but sealing them in this type of tank is a complete PITA - in fact I started with PE films then went to readily available elastomers.

Oh yeah - remember you need muffler pressure with these. If you don't have pressure, then a balloon tank is what you need. Search balloon tanks on this forum.

I've been putzing off and on with this tank idea for a year or so. Much more "off" than "on" naturally.. but once I focussed on it the current solutions came pretty quickly. The only testing in the air so far is horsing around in a Blink, but frankly that is probably about as good a shakedown test as you could want - pylon turns and aerobatics all in one semi-controlled flight.

I am anxiously awaiting CP's field test report, it's one thing to use something yourself that you conceived and built, but quite another to hand it to someone else for beta testing. As I mentioned in earlier threads, if/when these all prove out in the field, I'll finish the "how-to" article and drawings to distribute to fellow 1/2A junkies. I'm working on forming a tank body with the goal of making a slimmer, lighter tank of similar capacity. Should have something to report in a month or so, I'm puttering away at the mold right now.

MJD

BMatthews

Do a search for "mousse" here at RCU as well as on Google but for there use "mousse muffler". From what I remember about those they worked well we mufflers and while they didn't produce great power gains they assisted well enough to bring the RPM's back to the premuffled numbers or darn close. And they didn't require exhaust timing as serious as needed with a full on tuned pipe. They may be an option for this case.

As for running them on an enlarged blink I'd say forget the throttle but do set up a servo operated fuel cutoff. This will need to be a fairly heavy pinch spring that is triggered by the servo movement. You can't just pinch directly with the servo travel. Run it full blast until your kneecaps turn to jelly and you suddenly realize with crystal clarity why you fear the night and then scream "I AM NOT WORTHY! ! ! ! ! ! ! !" at the top of your lungs and activate the cutoff.

digital_trucker

That's when you curl your toes and continue on...and walk away a REAL MAN (even though you may be a real man with a monokote baggie of balsa sticks)..

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

That's also when you bark at your buddies to shut the duck up because you are desperately trying to concentrate, and stop yelling "how does it fly?" , "do a loop-de-loop!", "do another high speed pass!, "LOWER!","FASTER!"....

Yes, I should consider some plan to quiet those guys down though if I do this. Anyone know how restrictive and stupid the official Conquest muffler is?

MJD

Toad

I took an abc version conquest from a QM little toni and put that "stupid" stock muffler that comes with the rc version on it, onto a "Quickie 300" I designed, I was pleasantly surprised. it had plenty of power and it's bark is very friendly. great running engine.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Well, that's good news. Maybe I'll get me one then. And looky here, I didn't actually call it stupid, I just wondered if it was stupid...

My other option for that engine is a Sig Doubler I have. But.. a little fast thing sounds better maybe, I dunno. Sigh.

MJD

Toad

is it the "Doubler II ?
Ive been looking for one. not the original, but the "II" , the later one by Sig, I had one that I used flaperons on, I had a blast with that thing and the Conquest .15

ffkiwi

I have experience with both these engines-but in F1C (well what did you expect look at my moniker....) there are 3 different breeds of Conquest-the original ones made by Cox (paper cylinder base gaskets, steel rear bearing, no serial number) the middle generation made by K&B (copper cylinder base gaskets, nylon rear bearing retainer, serioal number) and the current crop made by MECOA (which includes an ABC version) The original Cox ones had a sintered iron piston-and these proved prone to cracking or letting go-with interesting (and generally unpleasant) results. So did the crankpins and the crankshaft counterweight covers.......[I've experienced all three] The very early ones from Cox used a different timed liner for the R/C throttled version compared with the C/L-F/F version. Later they went to a single standard P/L unit. The F/F one used a plain head with buttons similar to the Rossi and AD. These gave a bit more urge on straight FAI fuel than the bowl and squishband head of the R/C version.

They were never in the same league as Nelsons for power, but I was running them at 27,000 odd on 7x2.5s on bladder pressure with few handling problems. A 7x5 is about right for R/C use.

The ADs are superb-and represent what the Rossi would have evolved into given enough time and development. Bear in mind that these are very low production engines compared with the Cox or Rossi-almost verging on hand made.I've heard figures of only 20 units per year manufactured. Hence the fits and precision are almost flawless-but of course they are thin on the ground-heads are going to be a problem-and I doubt whether they will a) suit a pipe, and b) respond to a throttle. Best thing to do is measure the exhaust timing with a protractor on the engine-if it is around 155 degrees, you have a std timed liner, and there is nothing to be gained by putting a pipe on it. If it measures out at 170 degrees or more then a pipe should work. Alberto dall'Oglio (Mr 'AD'] was a former F1C flier-I'm not sure whether he ever made them in a piped speed versionYou also (unless you have a source of heads) need to get a Nelson head adaptor made up-there are plenty of people out there who can do that for you-you can make them from a burned out head. Current 'wear' for F1C is a shallow 'double bubble' setup-we stole it from the combat guys-so it will work up to 10% nitro.

My ADs (I have one steel and one ABC) are superb handling engines-albeit totally outclassed these days by Nelsons-geared or otherwise. I'm not sure whether I'd want to risk them in an R/C model though. Spares etc are likely to be non existent.

In the UK a few years back there was a fast delta beast called a BVM Wasp -try googling that name and see what you come up with. I recall seeing articles in AMI showing them powered with a piped MDS 15

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

Toad

Im wondering now what happened with Young, he was going to make some abc sets up.
The one I have is timed to 165, made by Glen Dye back in the ...uh...hell I cant remember how long ago that was. I would like to find a Doubler II for it again.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Yeah, it is a Doubler II kit. I will go over that engine and see which version it is. The original owner was a FF'er and likely bought these engines as far back the '70's or maybe early '80's.

MJD

TFF

I still have a QM Little Tony and Minnow with Conquests. Button heads with Perry carbs and mini pipes(working on a mousse can). I brought it out of mothballs, my flying buddy, who was use to sport .15s, did the starting honers while I held it; scared him so much, he would not reach around and steady the nose when he hit it with the starter on other starts. If your not an engine collector I would sell the AD.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Ah, but I do collect a bit, on a casual basis. Hence three drawers of engines that are wondering if they will ever see the nose of an airplane, of which maybe 3/4 are engines I would not hesitate to use. Sounds like the AD was a high end F1C engine in its time. If I was going to bench run it at all (it has run before but very little), I have an old but new Bartels 7-3.5 Cox copy, which should be a pretty authentic prop for the era, and about the right load?

FFkiwi: I can turn the head adapter myself, but I don't have a burned out head. Any idea where to find one?

MJD

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

do they still sell the piston and liner sets?

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

http://www.mecoa.com/rjl/c15/c15-parts.htm?id=105

is the parts source, they own the engine now.

Conquest 15

If you have any questions on the Conquest 15 or need any parts let me know. I do have A.B.C. Piston and liners but there is not enough interest to make very many.

Ron Young