cyclops2

To damm cheap to operate compared to electrics.

Anybody can fill a tank with wet stuff, clip on a lead, spin the prop & take off. ....Done.

Flying electrics is a endless set of trial and errors for a beginner. Upgrade this & that for a flight.

Glow has no endless problems to solve.

Now you know why no company makes 1/2 A glow.

This is of course a simplified reasoning. But it pretty close to the truth ?

Make the engines .........DIFFICULT.... to fly without upgrades.

5 years of on & off again electrics & I finally am getting the hang of it.......$$$$$$$$$$$$$[:@][:@][:'(][:'(]

gkamysz

My Feedback: (19)

I'll build new glow engines. How many thousand do you want? And are you ready to pay ~100USD each?

cyclops2

Thanks Greg. BUUUTT. I have a LOAD of money into SAFE batteries.

I still have a sealed gallon of 40% on a shelf.

cyclops2

Anybody else ever buy 1 of those leather glove fingers, with a piece of wood on top to lessen the OWWEEEE on a kickback ?

planebuilder66

My Feedback: (8)

I feel your pain, people are steered twards the clean easy electric ARF, but the truth is, many of those ARF's are marginal in power, not long in flight duration and to upgrade to reasonable power and flight time is more than it costed in the first place, not to mention, that you need a pile of batteries and have to wait an hour + to charge each LI-PO, sorry, I'll just spash and dash! But once in the air, there is 3 thing missing on an electric, smell(nitro burning), noise ( actual engine running) and last but not least, you never know when the LI-PO is going to crash, it almost gives no sign that it's going to die, the next thing you know is the low voltage cutoff kicked in and your in the middle of a cuban 8 about 30 feet from the ground!, no thanks, been there, done that, I stick to glow or gas till I'm 6 feet under, I don't even fly my electric heli anymore due to the li-po drop off.

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

Cox and Norvel built a few ARF's for their own engines...other than that there were kits.......electrics have ARF's up the wazzuu motor or not...fortunate if you have a few 1/2A engines laying around...but even then most are cowled and designed for electric motors...just face it,,they are the wave of the future..sure a small group will hang on to the bitter end and yeah I have a box of norvels and cox engines with the odd VA and CS and Toki's in it,, but I have (as of late) moved up to .15 size and like them as much or more,,"vintage" stuff is just moving on in the RC world....just today I changed out the Toki .05 in a Rascal for an OS.10 for bigger wheels and then floats if I can find them........Rog

cyclops2

Thanks for the honest life history of wet stuff.

I like electrics because there is NO END to the experimenting with so many engines power curves & the props needed.

I love building. NOT flying. Works for me.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Cyclops, if you want to play with electric planes, that's OK....but please wear an ear-ring on your left earlobe so we'll know that you're "into electric".

sir crashallot

i wear a ring on my left earlobe dosnt mean i fly electrics. combat pig

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

Pluck your eyebrows too?[X(]

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

[sm=lol.gif]!

NorfolkSouthern

I've actually seen the leccie ARFs to be easy to build and configure, probably more so than glow planes. Everything needed is pre-selected and spelled out on the box. Just follow the directions, and viola. You have an airworthy park flyer. My problem is the amount of time you have to wait to charge the LiPos. These planes seem to have no personality, the electric motors just don't seem to give them any life. And of course, there's that energy drain which I experienced very frequently when I was into electric boats. But yes, they indeed do fly and fly very well when set up according to the manufacturer's recommendations.

For now, the smallest engines I have in my fleet are an OS 10, and Thunder Tiger 15. I would certainly have no problem with a $100.00 1/2A that has the same power and throttle as a Norvel. They cost at least that much on EBay anyway, if you can find them. The trouble is, I know of few others who would be willing to invest the same amount. If an electric costs $100.00 for the motor and ESC, then you add another $150.00 for the batteries, balancer, and charger, then glow would still be cheaper in spite of the higher engine price.

The smaller stuff sells, but only because people want something they can fly out their back porch without bothering their NIMBY neighbors. Whether this trend continues to hold will depend on local ordinances and the lawmaker's patience levels.

NorfolkSouthern

Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

Wellll, I reckon its 'bout time fer my dos centavos.

Over the past few years I been seein' plenty of them thar lekky ARFs show up at the field and I ain't a'been too impressed with them either. But - and its a very big but - the ones I saw that were built from scratch from designs from really, really talented people who have obviously spent a lot of time learning and experimenting with EPP, Depron, and best IMHO FFF was a horse of a different color. Check out the videos on YouTube and see what those guys are doin'.

Now don't get me wrong, I can't imagine a time when I would give up my liddle .010s. But I am having a large amount of fun with a $1.50 worth of FFF, a ten dollar motor from Hong Kong, and a cheap 18-amp ESC. Oh yeah I have three, 2-cell li-pos. Total dollars there is a little more than full price of a Black Widow. And yep you do need a charger. Da boyz in Hong Kong sell a doozy for $40.

The real difference as I see it is that little motor swings a prop of almost twice the diameter of the most efficient .049 prop ever. Once you match that power system with a reasonable airframe - it will do things I could never do with an .049.

Yes, it is a manly thing to flip a prop with your finger (or wind those cursed springs) - risking painful injury. Yes, it is satisfying to get that perfect needle setting. Yes, it is a joyous thing to come home from a day's flying, smelling of burnt castor, your ears still ringing from whine of many RPMs. Your woman stands waiting at the door. Pride and respect gleaming in her eyes. Her man is home from the field.

Alas, a slight hint of ozone and a dull humm just don't produce the same thing, do it?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

NFS, it is like the electric plane has no soul, it's become just an appliance that you turn on and off.
Fuel burning planes imitate life, you've got a circulatory system [fuel], a calorie burning metabolism [combustion chamber] and a digestive tract [exhaust] that even stimulates the circulatory system to deliver more calories to burn [pressure tap]. The digestive tract can be smelly and noisy, too.
Engines of all kinds are miraculous things. Pro motor sports will probably always shun electric power for the simple reason that engine driven vehicles are more thrilling for the average spectator and sponsor to watch. The NHRA put a ban on rocket cars [in competition] for the same reason.
For the guy who would rather buy his salad [already assembled in a factory in Tijuana], instead of chopping his own lettuce, thank goodness for the convenience of electric power.

Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

Cp,

Marvelous analogy!

However, those "life forms" upchuck all over the vehicles that depend on them for motivation. Sometimes they pout like a spoiled child and refuse to run, even stopping at the worst possible time. And then in the worst behavior of all, bite the hand that feeds them. Ungrateful wretches!

Whereas, the well-mannered lekky can be compared to the honor roll student - some of them even reach Eagle Scout status (but they still lack that burnt castor smell). And now that I think of it, what's with those sissy, wimpy orange props?

gabe200

My Feedback: (21)

i love the cheap electric stuff they crash nice most that buy electrics never buy another one i see them in trees all the time in parks they tell them they can fly it with no problem thats why they never buy again so these people new comers to the hobby are lost some of the people dont even know how an airplane flys i have one electric airplane that i had to replace the rx and servos so it would fly nice that coast me money then the batteries went up more money now it just sits i love glow

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

RLF, it's amazing to me that you can just push a prop onto a little shaft then go out and practice prop hangs. I guess if it takes 5 pounds of effort to push on, it should take 5 pounds to pull it off?

If one of us 1/2A engine lovers ever wins the big Lotto, 1/2A engine production could happen again someday []. I wonder how many years of running a 10 man engine shop it will take to plow through 10 million bucks? Imagine the cost of bringing in the expertize to set up the operation and to develope the product. How many out of work small engine liner plating and porting experts are sitting next to their phones, waiting for a call right now?
Once up to full speed, no shop could make just 1/2A engines, there just isn't the demand. So then the shop [like PAW for example] would have to make lots of other things to keep everyone busy. That thought makes this venture sound too much like work.
I'm more than a little bit disappointed with ThunderTiger, their larger engines run just fine and produce as much power per dollar as any engine out there. They had some great engines already out there to copy / clone.
I guess they figure it isn't worth it to change the .07 around enough to make it a "runner". It would need to be completely redesigned and that isn't gonna happen.
.

planebuilder66

My Feedback: (8)

I like that phrase,

,
But lekky's are funny, at first they were trying for power, then came endurance, then they praised how clean and quiet they were, and then someone said " hey, I can't here it?!"
So now we made something just as powerfull as glow, last as long as glow and some idiot started to make sound to simulate and engine so they can hear it, what's next, a smoke pump that spits castor all over it to make you feel like you actually flew a fire breathing machine/ If you noticed, lekky's have gone full circle to become almost glows, but I just call them fakers.

DeviousDave

Park flyers have no soul.. Electric plyon racers and aerobatic ships with 150w/lb do. Fly an F5D and tell me you weren't completely immersed in the act.....[8D]

Remby

My Feedback: (3)

Lots of fun reading these posts, but I have seen no real reasons given yet that says why there are no new 1/2a's being built, or ARFs for those engines we enjoy using.

The market may be what it is, or it could be a bunch of factors together that have killed the market.

Only have one electric here, a Electrifly B-2 Stealth bomber, it will only fly on a very calm day. That may explain why I have not flown it for years.

The 1/2a's will attack the sky in 35+ knot gusts, and that is a ball. Also, two of them have wore out two of my engines, and are still flying. That is a lot of flights, not sure many of the electrics I've been exposed to would even get close to these records.

I think the enviromentalists have somthing to do about this, these 1/2a's and other glow engines spew "carbon" and are on the hit list because it is thought to be doing us in.

They used to be made in the USA, no longer.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

DD, I'll bet you're right....but I've already got a full plate with unexplored glow projects. I'm also too lazy at this point to learn what needs to be known about hi-perf electric. The investment in all the behind the scenes equipment, not just the money but the space it takes up, paying attention to the history and condition of the batteries, etc.......it's just too much for me. For me to do it right, I'd have to choose one over the other. I get too much of a thrill with glow for electric to interest me much.
The electric planes that interest me the most are those indoor 3Ders, I picked up a Harry Higley book called Foaming Around to learn the basics.

NorfolkSouthern

Wait until you forget to turn off the switch and then attach the battery with a reversed throttle. And like a washing machine, they don't stop 'till the cycle's complete or they're out of juice...

NorfolkSouthern

cyclops2

Well I accomplished what I wanted.

Wake up everybody to the fact that Reno is going to allow ALL ELECTRIC racers in 2010 !

That should really have them lined up.

Dewalt cells & Black & Decker VPX cells are the extremely safe batteries. NO fires when outrageously abused. I now own.......gulp......about.......gulp again..$300 of fuel.

Cheap it is not. I still have trouble adjusting the idles on the twins.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

My "IMHO" in a nutshell, bearing in mind I spent a few years in R&D and marketing of hobby products:


1. The small number of people who like these small engines represent a niche market, whose volume does not even remotely approach a level that can support the R&D, infrastructure and operating costs to produce small engines at reasonable prices.

2. Small engines may have $1.50 less material in them than a .46, but they have equal or greater amounts of labor and machine time, the tolerances that must be held for consistent quality and performance are a PITA, etc.

3. The average guy who is not a small engine afficionado often falls into frustration when an engine that requires more than a baalst from the fuel jug, glow heat, and a starter jammed into the spinner cone to get going.

4. Electrics can be flown in urban parks and fields, or in myriad places without causing trouble and attracting negative attention, whereas we all know how much the average folks love the sound of a screaming engine let alone a wailing 1/2A, muffled or not.

And whatever else. I love small engines but am saddened by current reality.

MJD

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

All the Merlins and Allisons have been blown up, the same problem hit hydroplanes many years ago. Not enough WWII piston engines to sustain a racing program.