"1/2 A" & "1/8 A" airplanes These are the small ones...more popular now than ever.

I think we have hit Peak Norvel

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Old 03-22-2009, 11:13 PM
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DeviousDave
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Default I think we have hit Peak Norvel

Thank the Economy, blame His Halfness, whatever-The days of expensive 1/2A's on Ebay seem to be going away. I have seen 3 AME's go for less than $65, and even a near new .074 go for less than $60.

No excuses now, boys! Go get your engines-in a few years we are all going to be back in the swing of things and you'll wish you got them now and had use of them rather than having to hem and haw over a $100 1/2A..

Git Sum!
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Old 03-23-2009, 07:16 AM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel

ORIGINAL: DeviousDave

Thank the Economy, blame His Halfness, whatever-The days of expensive 1/2A's on Ebay seem to be going away. I have seen 3 AME's go for less than $65, and even a near new .074 go for less than $60.

No excuses now, boys! Go get your engines-in a few years we are all going to be back in the swing of things and you'll wish you got them now and had use of them rather than having to hem and haw over a $100 1/2A..

Git Sum!
Mine are collecting dust, got a giant stick with a saito .65 dusting up nicely too...so I'll hold on to my stuff for a while..unless someone really wants my Mecoa Toki .05, its right up there with the CS.05 no power , but pretty, good for loafing around in a 3 channel, but thats all....the VA, Norvels, TD's,, I' hang on to for now/...rog

Oh yeah maybe ya'll can help, I asked over the lecky section,, on the inside cover of model airplane mag is an ad for MRC,the plane is lecky but looks like it would be good with an .074 on it, its yellow and red transparent, anybody know what it is.. its not from MRC Model Rectifier Corp...Rog
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:23 AM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel

I have a feeling it is mostly the economy driving things down. On the other hand when the collectors get all they want that should loosen things up some more. I have a feeling that this may also be true for now.

It is shocking to me that such large numbers of these engines sell and yet are not flown. You would think this forum would be more active with so many of these new owners gobbling up these things. This goes for Cox brand engines and others as well. I suppose its mostly collectors doing all the buying.

Makes one wonder how many of these buyers are stocking up for investment purposes? Not having any real care for the engines except to grow their money and hoping to later to unload their 'stock' for big bucks.

Robert
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Old 03-24-2009, 01:20 AM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel

I don't know that it's collectors sopping them all up, or people using them as investments. A guy will bid on them because he saw someone at his field with a cool powered plane, buy it and never get around to building it. I'm guilty of this with most of the Norvels I have, I bought a bunch of them with a project in mind for just about every one of them but never got around to them. The Twin, the Ducted Fan, the pylon racers, the sport planes, a fantasy went with every engine. I don't consider myself a collector but ended up with a crapload of them this way. Some were bought new, some from Feebay, and a lot from swapmeets. As far as "investment", I don't think I ever bought a norvel thinking it would get more valuable, maybe with the exception of a few of my .074s-but those ain't fer sale.

I'd just really hate for folks to miss this opportunity to secure this part of the hobby. $50 barely gets you pizza and a movie these days, it's unfathomable to pass up this much entertainment for the price.
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Old 03-24-2009, 04:23 AM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel

Looks like a peak alright. Check this .074, item no 170312208824. It's over $140 and still climbing!
Just goes to show that when too many people get in on a good thing, they wreck it for everybody.
al

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Old 03-24-2009, 06:48 AM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel

The ones that ship internationally tend to go for a lot more than those only sold nationally, I doubt the peak has ben reached yet...
Look also at the competition, or rather lack of it, a moki .05 is about the same price (?) and much less value for the money.
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Old 03-24-2009, 07:05 AM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel

And sitting in my LHS is a NIB TD .09 R/C for $99.99. Even I haven't bought it yet, although if a C-note was burning a hole in my pocket I would. Also a TD .049 for the same money [:@].


As to collectors - maybe some of them are collectors, but guys, how many of us are like DD, myself, and all the other confessed packrats on here? As DD said, we buy them with all the intentions in the world of doing something neat with them, but in this hobby sometimes these things take years as we work down the "gotta-do-now" list, sometimes they fade away, sometimes I can't make up my mind what to do with an interesting engine and the tune changes every time I look at it. But I don't polish them up and display them. Those dreams of what about this, what about that, are what keep my mind happily occupied with airplane thoughts when I'm doing other less rewarding things, like cleaning the house or trying to earn money. I have a collection of 1/2As to keep me going for a while, but if Santa brought me a new Fora or Cyclon I think I could scare up a little extra room in the drawer. And even build something for it.

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Old 03-24-2009, 08:31 PM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel


ORIGINAL: Big Al-RCU

Looks like a peak alright. Check this .074, item no 170312208824. It's over $140 and still climbing!
Just goes to show that when too many people get in on a good thing, they wreck it for everybody.
al

Regarding the particular example you site:

This isn't the best example of a typical Norvel sale, as it happens to be a couple of bidders with (0) and (1) feedback chasing each other up in a bidding war.

For the sellers sake, I hope he gets paid. On the other hand, maybe he dosen't deserve to, as he states the engine is NIB, and if you look at the picture you can see that the engine has obviously been mounted before.

As a buyer, a major peeve I have are sellers who don't seem to understand that "new" means "new", and anything less than "new" no longer qualifys as being "new"!
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Old 03-24-2009, 09:45 PM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel

Quote by Silvaire:
"For the sellers sake, I hope he gets paid. On the other hand, maybe he dosen't deserve to, as he states the engine is NIB, and if you look at the picture you can see that the engine has obviously been mounted before."

The zero feedback won at over $185.00! Yeah, look for this one to be relisted. Looks like the sensible bidding ended at 50 bucks.

New is sometimes skewed by perception anymore. The mark where the engine has been mounted is not terribly obvious but is definetely there. However it does not appear outwardly that the engine has been run. Certainly it could have been. To a collector or anyone else who expects a pristeen product would not like the marks left from mounting but to someone who never ran the engine could consider it as new.

Robert
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Old 03-24-2009, 09:51 PM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel

And it went for a measly $185.49. Shoot, for that price, I'll let go of my NIB RC .074 Big Mig for the bargain price of only $175.00 (+shipping, of course)!

Looks like there where only 3 bidders for it, and the one with the most wins dropped out at $50.00. The guy with no wins just got his first. I hope he enjoys his purchase.

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Old 03-24-2009, 10:40 PM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel

Here's a deal - AME Ball Bearing .061: 140308691368

Must be one of those rare ones (very rare ).

andrew
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Old 03-25-2009, 01:19 AM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel


ORIGINAL: build light



New is sometimes skewed by perception anymore.

Robert
You're right about that, Robert. I've bought too many clean looking engines described as being "new" - but when I got them I found mounting marks and the smell of fuel on them.

When selling, I've also gotten less money than others have for very clean "never run but fiddled with" or "very lightly used" engines because I have described mine accurately. In my mind it boils down to simple greed. Had I offered that Norvel .074, I would have described it as "never run with box and paperwork, but previously mounted".

Arlen
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Old 03-25-2009, 06:48 AM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel

There is always the chance it was mounted but never flown....possibly put in the Herr extra and changed out for an OS .15 like everyone else did......just a possibility...Rog
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Old 03-25-2009, 10:20 AM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel

To a collector, the mounting marks might matter...to someone who is going to use it, probably not.

Bear in mind that a non-collector may consider it NIB because it is in a box, unrun.

I once bought a Fox .29 on the bay that was listed as EXCELLENT (no pic). When I received it, it was almost worn-out, had a stripped head screw, a dent on the exhaust stack, and the bottom backplate screw had been stripped and replaced with a nut and bolt. My guess is that the seller knew nothing about engines and since the aluminum case was not rusted...

George
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Old 03-25-2009, 10:33 AM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel

OK, I'll quit beating this horse, although I won't admit he's dead.

I just think that when you offer somthing for sale, you should provide an accurate description of its condition - regardless of what priorities YOU have, or think that a potential buyer might have.

Just sayin'...

Arlen
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Old 03-26-2009, 02:19 PM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel


ORIGINAL: DeviousDave

Thank the Economy, blame His Halfness, whatever-The days of expensive 1/2A's on Ebay seem to be going away. I have seen 3 AME's go for less than $65, and even a near new .074 go for less than $60.

No excuses now, boys! Go get your engines-in a few years we are all going to be back in the swing of things and you'll wish you got them now and had use of them rather than having to hem and haw over a $100 1/2A..

Git Sum!

Yep. I got the .074 for $59. Didn't seem to be much bidding interest for that used one, so thought I'd give it a try. Since I had been bitten by the 'bay before, I had visions of rust, or a bent rod, or ??? However, tore the engine down & it was "gummy" with castor. All parts like new, & after cleaning, turned over smooth, & near friction-free. The thing turns. 19,800 with a MAS 6x4 on 33%, & 19,500 with a MAS 5.5x4.5 on the same fuel. !!!! Both readings measurably higher than what I'm accustomed to. Some times, things just go right. !!!

Robert, I had been thinking 'bout the same thing. Gobs of small engines are selling every week, & yet this forum appears to have llittle activity on new projects. Well, this engine won't be waiting in a box for prices to rise. Got a load of lumber from Lonestar last week, & now I'm nearly finished with a scratch built Simple 400/SWR. Soon as it's ready for the air, I'll start on a sport wing version for the .074 ............. George K.
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Old 03-26-2009, 03:49 PM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel


ORIGINAL: mtntopgeo
......Got a load of lumber from Lonestar last week
George K.
George

Was your wood some of their firesale stuff or is it new balsa? How is their quality - as good as ever I hope.

andrew
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Old 03-26-2009, 04:06 PM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel

The Problem with the misrepresented items are the unsuspecting buyer has to pay for shipping both ways.

The seller is out nothing for his misrepresentation - which is just wrong[:'(]
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Old 03-26-2009, 04:42 PM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel

Andrew, I was tempted, by the price, to try the fire sale stuff, but decided against doing so. Got the new stuff. Out of ten 1/4x3x30 slabs, I'd rate six as 'bout medium, and four as lite medium. The full bundle of 3/32 sheets was near contest grade; almost too lite for slab sided fuselage. Also got some bundles of triangular stock in different sizes. Everything was well cut, good quality, with no twists, bows, or warp. ...................... George K.

RocketRob, Yep, been on the wrong side on a couple of those deals. Easy to get $15 or $20 spent on postage, & have nothing to show for it. .......................... George K.
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Old 03-27-2009, 12:08 AM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel

I can only think of two deals gone wrong for me on Feebay. One involved a common thief who bought a radio from me, claimed he didn't get it for 3 or 4 weeks, then told me it arrived with broken switches. I offered to have him return it for a refund and heard nothing more until I noticed that Paypal had refunded his money-he played me like a fiddle by dragging the deal out until the protest period was over. I never knew he filed a claim against me until the money AND RADIO were gone for good. Took 12 years to trust paypal again and open an account-and I only did it because you can't do anything on Feebay without it.

The second incident involved an MP-Jet .061 diesel. The motor was R/C and was advertised to come with a CL venturi. When the motor came, there was no venturi so I contacted the seller and was told "well, if I couldn't find it then I don't have it-besides, you were going to fly it r/c anyway..." How he would know what I planned to do with the motor is a mystery, and I figured that it was the last I would hear from him about it. I left appropriate feedback stating that I didn't receive all items described in the listing. I have to say that I was truly impressed, being a cocky blue collar skilled tradesman, at the breadth of profanity that a 70+ year old model engine collector from Pennsylvania can level at you! The ensuing exchange of emails was almost worth the price of the auction, let's say that I had a good time with it-things got kinda petty and out of hand so I let him have it.

Lo-and-behold, a month or two later I get a package from him containing the missing venturi. I attempted to amend my negative feedback, but couldn't. A week later, I found out why he went ahead and sent the missing venturi: He had another person leave bad feedback and wanted to know if I would take back what I left on his account for feedback.


Aside from that, I occasionally get engines that are sold as "new" but aren't or are "used in good condition" and have vice grip marks on the head or drive washer. I those cases I go back to the ad, reread the description and see if I missed something in the pic that would have told me it was @#$%ed up. If I can see it in the pic, I don't bother asking the seller to make it right but if the text is misleading or the pics are taked to hide the damage I always ask (and get) a partial refund or return offered.

The only thing that I would not want to accept as used engine sold as new is a small bore diesel. It's too easy to damage the rods and so many people have a hard time getting them started and running that the engines can be damaged before they reach the top of the learning curve and decide to sell the engine because they just don't understand diesels.
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Old 03-27-2009, 09:29 AM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel

I've gotten in the habbit making a PDF copy of every aspect of the acution and other transaction details if I win the action. I figure at least I'd have that as leverage if need be. So far I haven't really been burned, but also don't buy very much on feebay either, mainly just window shop. I consider feebay like going to a casino - you have to be willing to part with the cash with nothing to show for it if you want to purchase something from feebay.

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Old 03-27-2009, 04:35 PM
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Default RE: I think we have hit Peak Norvel


ORIGINAL: DeviousDave
... Took 12 years to trust paypal again and open an account-and I only did it because you can't do anything on Feebay without it...
That is my reason for losing interest in the auction site. I don't even look anymore unless someone points out something interesting.

George
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