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  1. #1
    MJD's Avatar
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    ACE foam wings

    Hi y'all,

    I've measured up the one set of constant chord wings I have, or had, and also the root of the tapered wing panels in this kit here. I am trying to reproduce the ACE constant chord airfoil as closely as possible. I thought it was designed as a NACA 2415, but if you add 3/8x1 TE to it, which fits nicely and follows the contours nicely, it ends up working out a little thicker. Of course, foam is not a precision medium.. I understand this well. My main goal is to be able to draw a wing saddle that fits them in to a design or two you see. I did measure the pair I had that I used in the Squirt, but they were grossly different and I don't trust the info. I think the one I used was normal though.

    My question and a favor to ask: does any of you have an ACE kit with a full size side view? And if so, what is the chance of you checking out the wing saddle, or even better scanning it? Or failing that scanning the root itself? I'd like to see what they draw in for the saddle profile, including TE stock etc. I have a Simple 400 that I finished about a month ago, but seems I chucked the plans, can't find them anywhere.

    Thanks in advance if you can help! If not, then you can look at this photo and suffer envy. Or just look at it - my buddy made the fatal mistake today of reminding me he's been hoarding this for years. It's mine now, ha ha ha ha ha ha..... [>:]

    Which engine do you think?

    I'll tackle it later this season.

    MJD


    MJD
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    Marine GOOP = magic faerie boogers in a tube, sticks everything.

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  2. #2

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    RE: ACE foam wings

    Just had a minute to trace this. Can do better a little later.

    Charlie


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  3. #3
    MJD's Avatar
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    RE: ACE foam wings

    That's fine - I can interpolate the odd wobble with a french curve. I'll print it and measure up. I had one wonky panel, but the other data I've gathered to date is all in fairly close agreement.

    The fundamental reason I am doing this is so that if I design something and someone else wants to build it, they will fit. In addition, if I was to do a built-up, I'd want it to fit saddles meant for the foam wing.

    Please nobody make a career over this request, but a quick trace or scan helps me average out the data.

    Thanks,

    MJD
    Marine GOOP = magic faerie boogers in a tube, sticks everything.

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  4. #4
    Silvaire's Avatar
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    RE: ACE foam wings

    What are those two engines?

    I can't quite tell, but perhaps an Anderson Spitfire and a VA Mk1 ???

    It so, a SERIOUSLY apple/orange consideration...
    "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to take away."

  5. #5
    MJD's Avatar
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    RE: ACE foam wings


    ORIGINAL: Silvaire

    What are those two engines?

    I can't quite tell, but perhaps an Anderson Spitfire and a VA Mk1 ???

    It so, a SERIOUSLY apple/orange consideration...
    That's exactly why I put them there like that - of course I'm just fooling. Those were the two most opposed engines in my 1/2A collection, with the possible exception of the only antique I have, an Atom .09. I have a VA MkII RC which is actually what I think is perfect for the M1. Especially if I can pare off a few ounces AUW - first step is to ditch the 12lb balsa fuse parts! The VA MkI can replace it the MkIIRC in my Blink, don't need no stinking throttle but thought I might use it. Apparently not. Needs more power anyway.

    MJD
    Marine GOOP = magic faerie boogers in a tube, sticks everything.

    Revver Bro #231

  6. #6

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    RE: ACE foam wings

    This is from the Whizard plan.

    Charlie
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  7. #7
    MJD's Avatar
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    RE: ACE foam wings


    ORIGINAL: cpc625

    This is from the Whizard plan.

    Charlie
    Thank you!

    MJD
    Marine GOOP = magic faerie boogers in a tube, sticks everything.

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  8. #8
    Bipe Flyer's Avatar
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    RE: ACE foam wings

    I have the ACE aifroil in Tile Print. I also have a plan that I drew up for a built up ACE wing.

    I used it on my 1/2A Stik. http://donatelli.net/12astik/12AStikLdg.mpg
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    Bulldog Brotherhood #4
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  9. #9
    MJD's Avatar
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    RE: ACE foam wings


    ORIGINAL: Bipe Flyer

    I have the ACE aifroil in Tile Print. I also have a plan that I drew up for a built up ACE wing.

    I used it on my 1/2A Stik. http://donatelli.net/12astik/12AStikLdg.mpg
    Cool, thanks.

    MJD
    Marine GOOP = magic faerie boogers in a tube, sticks everything.

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  10. #10
    Bipe Flyer's Avatar
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    RE: ACE foam wings

    The wing is in Turbocad. If you want a copy in Turbocad, DXF or high rez GIF, I'll upload it to my website and post a link.
    Bulldog Brotherhood #4
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  11. #11
    MJD's Avatar
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    RE: ACE foam wings


    ORIGINAL: Bipe Flyer

    The wing is in Turbocad. If you want a copy in Turbocad, DXF or high rez GIF, I'll upload it to my website and post a link.
    I have AutoCAD, so can read .dxf files - I'll take you up on that offer!

    Thanks BF.

    MJD
    Marine GOOP = magic faerie boogers in a tube, sticks everything.

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  12. #12

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    RE: ACE foam wings


    ORIGINAL: MJD
    ...with the possible exception of the only antique I have, an Atom .09...
    MJD
    Since that Spitfire was produced around 1950, I would consider it an antique too.

    George

  13. #13
    MJD's Avatar
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    RE: ACE foam wings


    ORIGINAL: gcb


    ORIGINAL: MJD
    ...with the possible exception of the only antique I have, an Atom .09...
    MJD
    Since that Spitfire was produced around 1950, I would consider it an antique too.

    George
    True enough! More accurately, it is my only antique ignition engine. I have a very modest collection of small glow oldies.
    Marine GOOP = magic faerie boogers in a tube, sticks everything.

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  14. #14
    vertical grimmace's Avatar
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    RE: ACE foam wings

    I would like to make a comment about the Ace wing. It does fly well but It has a bad tendancy to snap out inverted. I actually do not like this aspect but it is a lot of fun when you know how to use it. If I were designing a small plane\airfoil, I would either go symmetrical or less camber than the Ace airfoil to give better inverted flight. I have been out flying my simple ultimate all afternoon and it is a good example of this. It does not like to outside loop unless you keep the speed up and are gentle with the elevator. It was intetresting because I had just flown my Kaos and then the Ultimate. Big difference! The Kaos just has a better section I believe. At least for my tastes.
    Let's just say, they will be satisfied with less. " Ming the Merciless


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  15. #15
    Bipe Flyer's Avatar
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    RE: ACE foam wings


    ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace

    I would like to make a comment about the Ace wing. It does fly well but It has a bad tendancy to snap out inverted. I actually do not like this aspect but it is a lot of fun when you know how to use it. If I were designing a small plane\airfoil, I would either go symmetrical or less camber than the Ace airfoil to give better inverted flight. I have been out flying my simple ultimate all afternoon and it is a good example of this. It does not like to outside loop unless you keep the speed up and are gentle with the elevator. It was intetresting because I had just flown my Kaos and then the Ultimate. Big difference! The Kaos just has a better section I believe. At least for my tastes.

    Part of the reason for the ACE wings snapping out is because most or their planes are overweight. However, I don't use that wing for anything anymore. For really small stuff in the .010/.020 size I use a Clark-Y and for anything larger I use a fully symmetrical like an NACA 0013.
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  16. #16
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    RE: ACE foam wings

    An NACA0013 would be a great airfoil on that little Ultimate. I guess the key aspect of a good design with a fully symmetrical airfoil is wing loading. It is imperative to keep them light and then they really come alive. The main bonus of the Ace wing though is how easy they are to build. They would certainly do a little better if they had a spar installed as well. they are just not stiff enough to be precise.
    Let's just say, they will be satisfied with less. " Ming the Merciless


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  17. #17
    Bipe Flyer's Avatar
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    RE: ACE foam wings


    ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace

    An NACA0013 would be a great airfoil on that little Ultimate. I guess the key aspect of a good design with a fully symmetrical airfoil is wing loading. It is imperative to keep them light and then they really come alive. The main bonus of the Ace wing though is how easy they are to build. They would certainly do a little better if they had a spar installed as well. they are just not stiff enough to be precise.

    I build foam wings for almost all of my models. They key is to not expect the foam to do any thing but hold the airfoil shape. The ACE foam is way to heavy IMO. I use the lightest foam possible and sheet it with carefully selected balsa - no spars, no LE, just the sheeting and a TE.
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  18. #18
    Bipe Flyer's Avatar
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    RE: ACE foam wings

    Here's a link to the wing plan in DXF, DWG and TCW format. I also included the airfoil in DAT format for those who have a foam cutter.

    It should be fairly close, I traced it from the ACE Simple Ultimate plans.

    http://www.donatelli.net/downloads/B...p-ACE-wing.zip
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  19. #19

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    RE: ACE foam wings

    ORIGINAL: cpc625

    This is from the Whizard plan.

    Charlie
    I first flew my scratch-built Whizard with Ace Pulse Commander/Adams actuator and DDD diesel converted Baby Bee this last week-end.
    It sure brought back memories, although I was surprised how tame this model is.
    The model uses a built-up wing and is covered with laminating film.
    The NACA 3315 airfoil is the closest I could find to the one shown on the Whizard plan.
    The attached picture is of rib template I used (Planking is 1/16").
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  20. #20
    MJD's Avatar
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    RE: ACE foam wings

    Thanks to all! I think I have more data than I can digest now - not that I am complaining .

    I have the mid '60's RCMs with the press releases and a write up in my collection, I need to find them. But I do recall the mention of Owen Kampen's use of the 2415, and I suspect any differences between a computer plot and the real thing are production tolerance related.

    Thanks again.. MJD
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  21. #21
    MJD's Avatar
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    RE: ACE foam wings


    ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace

    An NACA0013 would be a great airfoil on that little Ultimate. I guess the key aspect of a good design with a fully symmetrical airfoil is wing loading. It is imperative to keep them light and then they really come alive. The main bonus of the Ace wing though is how easy they are to build. They would certainly do a little better if they had a spar installed as well. they are just not stiff enough to be precise.
    It's easy to route in a spar, even on a table saw if nothing else. I've also capped mine with 1/4" strips of unidirectional .003" CF in a sanded slot, and they pretty much don't flex under reasonable loads. I imagine one could cap or spar the wing, then cut out some material from the outboard "rib bays" to save some weight.

    But yeah, they are not the lightest option by any means, only convenient. But they work for knock-about sport models. Nor is the 2415 maybe the best airfoil for small models either, too thick IMHO.

    Vertical Bearded Grin - here's an overlay of the 2415 and 1415 for giggles. Not much saddle filler needed to adapt.

    MJD
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