Heartland

My Feedback: (9)

Finally finished my Ziroli Mini Sukhoi. Scratch built from the MAN pullout plan that came out back in '94 or so. Unfolded it to look at it so many times that all the creases had all but given out and was almost left with a stack of sheets, but managed a plane from them. I lost the magazine so didn't have the construction article to go with it, so that left me with lots of head scratching. The only mod I did was to alter the turtledeck to give the canopy a more pronounced shape. Had the cowl area built up nicely then had to hack it away to make the Thunder Tiger GP07 fit. Four HS81's and a Hitec 6S micro receiver. Going to maiden it tomorrow morning, hopefully all goes well. Used to fly giant scale but sold most of my stuff and built up this little guy to have something to fly. It's my first 1/2A R/C effort, so hopefully all goes well. Ready to fly weight is a touch over 19 ounces. Is that a good flying weight?

Toad

19/20oz...excellent!

I don't think the little GP will "hover" it though. But it will be a blast to fly.
Good Job, looks great, I hope it serves you well.

Heartland

My Feedback: (9)

Thanks! Not expecting a stellar vertical with the GP07. From the size of the control surfaces it looks like it's going to be touchy on the controls. Flight report to come tomorrow....

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Very nice!
I'll bet you have a good report for us...so wring it out!

ChicaWolverina

Nice job on it Hearland!

Any inside shots of it?

G'Luck!


><
Tomasina

DeviousDave

Looks GREAT!

sewflynwa

Hearland,

What did you do about the balloon fuel tank? I nearly wrote my mini off when the balloon leaked, but it was just too good a flier to let it go that way.

Sewflynwa

Heartland

My Feedback: (9)

Well I forgot to take pictures, but it did fly this morning! I was surprised and how well mannered it was for such a small plane. A little touchy on the controls but not bad at all. And slows down pretty well too. The GP07 still isn't running as good as I'd like, but only have a pint through the motor. Going to do some investigating with the motor next weekend and make sure it's cleaned out real good. Didn't really feel out the plane that much since the motor wasn't wanting to run consistently at lower RPM's. Or high RPM's for that matter, haha. Just went full bore till the fuel ran out for two flights and called it a day.

I'll get some interior shots and post them up, but be warned the woodwork looks less than pretty, because the wing got split in two when some stuff fell on it in the shop, so it was glued/spliced/braced back together. Ain't pretty but it's holding together.

I didn't use the balloon tank. I remember it from the article, but decided to go with a standard plastic tank. A 2oz tank from sullivan or hayes, I think it was. it's a tall, narrow tank. wanted to slip it in from the bottom but ended up cutting a hole in the top once the plane was covered to get the tank in. [:@] Like I said, I lost the issue with the article so used my imagination to get things installed. I left out the floor beneath the fuel tank since the tank I used is so tall and narrow.

Going to give the GP07 a chance until I run out this quart of fuel and if it isn't working like I want, either send it back or get another motor. Messed with an AP wasp at first. Garbage. This is doing better but is still a little quirky. Maybe get that Norvel after all.... The tech at Thunder Tiger said the GP07 should be idling below 3K, I think it was. Below 7K for me and doesn't stay running. Using a 6x3 master airscrew prop.

Mr Cox

Well that Tech has probably never ran one him self...

I actually prefer the Wasp over the TT07, but it a close call. Kind of like choosing between the plague and cholera... [:'(]

The TT07 can be made to deliver decent power with a custom head and a turbo plug, but the sloppy crankcase fit means that the lifespan is really short...
I got about one season out of mine with mods; http://rcuvideos.com/video/Film-TT-Gp07-wmv

You didn't mention what fuel you use. I would recommend 20-25% pure castor (to aid in sealing the sloppy crank) and about 5-10% Nitro.
OS#8 plug seemed ok with the stock head. You should be getting at least 17000rpm on a 6x3, i.e. about the same as for the Wasp...

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Nice report Heartland!

I talked with the TT tech once, but he had to cut the conversation short when his Mommy called him to dinner.

Mr Cox

Checked my notes, on a graupner 6x3 mine did 17400rpm (idle around 3000, with a minimum of 2800rpm) with the stock head.
With a "turbo head" it did 18700rpm on the same prop and would idle around 3200rpm.

I suggest that you bench run the engine until it is sorted out so that you don't risk your nice plane.
For the idle you could check for leaks around the backplate (seal with teflon tape), the pin that orients the liner is also hollow on some earlier models...

With the stock throttle barrel I ran the air bleed completely closed. This required a shortening of the spring that would otherwise obstruct the airbleed screw...

Happy fiddling!

cd_webb

My Feedback: (6)

Heartland,
I've got the same set of pull-out plans, and like you I've unfolded and refolded 'till I've about worn them out. but just this week began cutting copied wing ribs and glue ing to balsa. I'm gald to hear that the plane flys well. That was worrying me too. I also thought about a Thunder Tiger .07 but if you've got to demolish the cowl area, I don't know. Do you think electric might be a better way to go?

Heartland

My Feedback: (9)

Thanks guys! we'll have to compare notes about engines later this week, need to get ready for labor day dinner...

webb... if you build the plane with the intention of using a TT 07 you could certainly build a nice cowl around it. my problem was i planned on the .061 then abandoned that in favor of the 07 (might regret that too). so at that stage in the game it was easier to hack away a good portion of the cowl sides to make the muffler fit. and the left side was partially cut away for needle valve accesss although i guess i could've used an extension through a small hole. as far as electric vs. gas.... personal preference i guess. i'm sure today's electrics would make a rocket out of the little plane.

hogflyer

I've got the same plans and have gotten to the point where I copied them and cut out the templates, but haven't looked at them in a while. Got them boxed up now and won't be able to look at them until the new house is finished.

I'm wondering if the OS .10 may not be a better option over the TT .07?

Hogflyer

cd_webb

My Feedback: (6)

If I'm understanding what was being said earlier, the TT .07 has it's own set of inherent problems that there may not be a ready solution for. The OS .10 has been around a while. Whatever problems it may have had are most likely all worked out at this point. I'm pretty sure I've got one of those and if I remember right, the physical size of it is going to be about right. Yeah, you may may be on to something, hogflyer.
The only other thing is that I've lost the magazine article too. I really dread the same "head scratching" that heartland mentioned. I always wind up doing almost everything 2 or 3 times before getting the kinks worked out!

Heartland

My Feedback: (9)

I'm sure the OS would be a better option, no doubt the OS's run better than some of the stuff I've been buying lately... kind of like comparing a rolex to a timex, IMO. Not sure how heavy the OS is though. And I didn't have one laying around, closest thing was the AP hornet 09, which is really heavy so I started looking at other motors. But the darn thing runs like a champ. Might bolt that hornet 09 up to the Sukhoi for no other reason than reliability and ease of starting. In fact I think I just talked myself into it.... I was getting almost 16K with a 6x3 master airscrew.

Someone asked for an interior shot. The black at the bottom of the picture is the receiver in its foam. The fuel tank is a tall, slim 2oz tank, and the battery is an electrifly 350mah (or so) NiMH battery on one side of the tank. The servos are mounted to 1/8 x 3/8 basswood that was glued to the inside of the wing sheeting after the center rib was cut away. Like I said, a little rough with some chunks missing from the "mishap" in the shop.

cd_webb

My Feedback: (6)

Like I said, I've got the plans too, and for the space you've got to work with, that's a relly neat and clean installation. It may have some rough spots but I don't see em. Man, put your dependable engine on that thing and fly it! You've got a really nice little plane there. I only wish mine was that far along!

Mr Cox

That just doesn't sound right, surely a good 049 or any 061 engine would beat that! [X(]

For 09 size I like the Enyas, the older ones have a small muffler that is not that heavy.

With such a nice and light airframe I think that the Norvel 074 would be good match.

bps

My Feedback: (3)

Neat looking little plane. Are these plans still available? I am flying a Herr Little Extra and love this plane. I fly sport and scale, but the LE has become my favorite go to plane for a quick trip to the field.

R/C Phile

I second the Enya vote, they appear on Ebay regularly and you should be able to pick-up clean one for less than 50.00 bucks.

I also fly one in a Little Extra (26 oz ready to fly) and while it can't hover or fly straight up, it takes off in about 15-20 feet, will hold a 50 degree or so climb and it seems it will do most every trick in the book save for some 3d moves and knife-edge flight. (Currently use 15% Nitro and MAS 8 X 3 prop)

The Enya is not stellar in performance but after a longish break-in period and a couple slight mods, it has a reliable idle and transitions well enough for predictable touch "n goes. I've had a couple of their 40's in a variety of trainers and sport planes and liked them a lot, they were very durable.

As for your GP.. I've got a couple of somewhat modded Cox 049 Black Widows that show me over 17K with a 6X3 so it's seems it should be stronger..

PM me if you want more details on my Enya experience..

exocet-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

I vote for the Enya .09 - great engine for that plane.

I think I'll have to put this plane on my list, too...

Heartland

My Feedback: (9)

Only read good things about those norvel .074's, you just don't see many for sale. Agreed, 16K on a 6x3 is a little less than I expected. I'm using fresh sig 1/2 fuel. If I watch the fuel line I see little bubbles that just hangout in the line and don't get sucked through while it's running/cranking. I hit it with the starter for a few seconds and when I stop, I see fuel and bubbles getting sucked back into the tank. Seems to run okay on the top end once its started. Another weird thing is that I can get it started, run up to full throttle, everything is okay, then if i throttle back to around 1/2 or 2/3 and leave it, it sometimes starts surging in RPM, maybe about once a second. Very regular and consistent surge, I'd almost bet a plot of RPM's would make a perfect sine wave. It's the strangest thing, never had an engine do anything like it.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

a plane this size and weight needs the punch of a 7 inch prop to fly with gusto. Don't get talked into diesel conversions either, they are the false prophets. The reality of diesel conversions is they break engines and will disintegrate your plane if 1 microgram of diesel fuel is able to seep under the slightest imperfection in your covering job. You know how fast a iron on job can get ruined by glow fuel, diesel fuel works 10 times faster. The best fuel proofing techniques for diesel is paint over cloth, which is heavy by comparison for small planes.
A Norvel .074, 7x3 prop will turn 17,000 on 15% fuel. I understand MECOA has replacement plugs now?

Mr Cox

Well a PAW 09 will turn a 9x4 prop at about 10500rpm, and would probably pull that thing vertically out of sight, but that's not for everyone...
I have put a short video here of a PAW 09RC if anyone is interested; [link=http://rcuvideos.com/video/TT-Scooter-with-PAW-09-RC]rcuvideos[/link]

It actually replaced my TT 07GP and was a night and day difference. Covering is still ok, I just added a bit more epoxy in the front.

But back on topic, the Enya 09 are happy on 7x4 props so that would be fine too.

R/C Phile

I run an 8 X 3 on my Enya 09 for extra thrust, it definitely pulls harder than the 7 X 5 if not as fast. Personally, I am more interested in vertical / climbing performance than outright speed. I'll try an 8 X 4 next to see if it does not bog it down too much and perhaps get me a little more speed just for kicks.