wolfy888

Wellnow...It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, so I'm going to be a good neighbor and break in my new toy for all to hear and curse. I'll post results later, if'n some do-gooder doesn't call the cops on me. You know how I feel about HOA's......I haven't seen any posts about this little machine, but it looks like they applied big-R/C technology to it. We'll find out one way or t'other....

Walther

My Feedback: (1)

There is a lot posted about this engine.

Mr Cox

There has been plenty of discussion on the engine in this forum but you might not find a dedicated "how to do" thread...

Here are a few of my comments:
- head gaskets are of a very poor quality, but are easy to replace with a new one made from an aluminium can
- the crank to case fit is too sloppy, needs full castor (20%) to help.
- muffler leaks (round surface against a flat), but can be aided with a bit of JB weld
- it has no airbleed or other other means to adjust the low end. So it is very important to adjust the main needle at full throttle (as one always should do anyway) and live with the rest. A small whole (0.5 mm) can be drilled as an airbleed, or one can also fit an adjustable airbleed (AndyW has shown how to do that)
- use a prop that puts the engine above 16500rpm or there can be problems with overheat and irregular needle settings

On 80/20, straight castor, 0% nitro and an APC 5.7x3 prop, I got 17500 rpm when running in the engine, just to give you an idea of the power one can expect.
With the fixes above I have an engine that's been running fine for a season on an MAS 5.5x4 and 10% Nitro

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

They usually run OK with decent power for awhile...they just don't last long enough. We should make Mr. Coxe's synopsis of this engine a "sticky".....to keep unaware engine shoppers from getting "stuck"...

Back when they were $30, I used them for RC combat with the carbs tied wide open. The crankshaft to case fit was always the first thing to "go", causing a crankcase pressure leak the engine can't run with.

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

And take the back plate of to check for shavings!!..Rog

Mr Cox

How about making a sticky with collective information about all the "less good" engines that are out there?
It could be named something else than "Chinese fishing lures", just to be polite...

I can think of a few candidates to put in there; The AP series (.061, 09, 15), CS .061 and .049, TT 07GP, Cox Queen Bee, Fuji .049(?) just to name a few...

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Fishing lures is a perfect analogy Mr C!

Just by having all this junk floating around with those flashy advertisements it's like dragging your hooks through the water...sooner or later you'll snag a few in the belly.

My vote for the worst of the worst is none other than the Cox QueenBee.......FTQ!!! [X(]

Sport_Pilot

What of the Fuji .05? Any good?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

The FUGI looks pretty mean, don't it?

Mr Cox

You see, if we there had been a sticky you would be reading the text below, and not have to wonder or worry anymore;

Quote from [link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=824071&highlight=toki+05]rcgroups[/link]:
I ran the Toki 05 today and measured 15,000 RPM on a Master Airscrew 6x3 with some very old 25% nitro fuel. The engine is very quiet and throttles down to around 5000 RPM. The throttle response from idle to full is a bit sluggish but reliable. The engine is still breaking in and probably could use some newer fuel. Overall it seems like a good motor although a bit large for the power it produces. One other note, you need to drill a 1/4" hole to fit the prop. This is much bigger than any other 049 engine and will make some props weak. The weight with muffler is 4.4 ounces.

So a 4.4oz engine spinning a 6x3 prop at 15,000rpm, heck that's worse than the CS engine I sealed up with JB weld...

controlliner

I have a single port Baby Bee that will get 15,000 rpm with a 6X3

wolfy888

O.K., Y'all, here 'tis: 3 1oz. tanks sloppy rich, then let it cool for a bit. Next tank, leaned it into a rough two-cycle; throttle response predictably sluggish, let it cool again. (all this on norvel 25%, Master airscrew 6x3) Next tank, leaned it out thoroughly, read 18,250 RPM, held steady. Pretty quiet motor, even. No flights, as I'm still having a radio problem, but I'm going to fix it tonight, or die trying. I'm thinking maybe I got lucky and got a good one. We'll see....tomorrow is supposed to be good flying weather for a maiden, so let's all keep our fingers crossed; I'd hate to waste this Kaotic-cat on a bad flight 'cause the pilot was stupid. Besides, I haven't even taken pix of it yet.....

Andrew

Good today, gone tomorrow!

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Sport_Pilot

You said it was old fuel and not broken in, how did it do with new fuel after it was broken in?

wolfy888

Andrew, I have engines that have lasted 35 years, and I've had some that lasted 15 minutes....depends on the final planting. I take it that this mill isn't highly regarded for its longevity; I'll take the advice of 100% castor, and see where it leads. Maybe if I run 22%-25% mix, the increasing nitro content i plan to use won't hurt it so much. I looked at Tower's Thunder Tiger .07 last night, any input? Cheapies like that will do for the "Daily-flyers", and I'm going to use the inbound Profi's for special ships.

Mr Cox

Ahh, now that's a fishing lure from Taiwan...

Have you tried the search function on the forum?
Search for "A closer look at the TT07GP" or something similar to that.

In brief, it is comparable to the AP in terms of power and crank to case fit, but the weight is higher and there is no room for the much needed spring starter...
If you do get one, try to get the newest one, identifiable on the different sizes on the case cooling fins. That way you get a solid alignment pin and do not have to correct the missaligned ports in the case...

Andrew

Hello Wolfy888 -

The QC on these Chinese engines is awful or simply non-existant. Generally, they should get a thorough cleaning before running; many have had a lot of milling swarf left inside. Mr COX has pretty well covered the waterfront with his comments. This engine is a knockoff of the early NORVEL AAN. I expect they would have cloned the Revlite, but couldn't figure out how to hard anodize the cylinder.

Head gaskets on these engines are a joke - mine last as long as it takes to toss it into the trash. You can get replacement copper gaskets from Larry Driskill at [link=http://www.kittingittogether.com/]Kitting It Together[/link] or Bernie at [link=http://coxengines.ca/home.php]COX International[/link].

When I have my NORVELs or APs apart, I usually replace the cylinder screws with black oxide allen screws. If you will use a screw that extends a couple of mm below the crankcase flange, should you ever snap one off even with the case flange (almost impossible to get out), you can back it out from the bottom with a pair of needle nose pliers.

The threads on the NV are course and ill fitting (NORVEL used an O-ring seal) - adding a piece of fuel tubing that extends from the NV nut over the NV body will help cut down on air leaks.

Although these engines are bushed, the fits are poor, so the high castor recommendations are right on.

Both the NORVEL and APs can shed the muffler cap in the air - I usually decide which direction I want the stinger pointing, then clean it well and JB Weld it in place. Other folks have drilled and pinned the cap. In any event, a little safety wire around the muffler will keep it on the plane should the cap work loose.

A little careful work with a flat file will improve the muffler/case.

andrew

GrahamRees

Can somebody please tell me how I can get the information for fuel mixture and breakin process for my 061>

I have lost mine and want to get my engine started.

Thanks to any who can help.

66Malibu

FYI...You can download and print the AP Wasp .061 Operating Instructions and Trouble Shhoting Guide from the Tower Hobbies website.
At least I was able to a few months back...
If a problem , I may have it saved and can email it to you.......

Mr Cox

It an ABC style engine, just run it with plenty of castor (20%) and not too much Nitro (about 10%) and with a small prop in the beginning. I used an APC 5.7x3 when running in mine. Could use smaller one, like a 5x3 also. There is no real "running in" to be done it is just a matter of running it slightly rich, keeping it happy at a regular operating temperature and do not overheat it with a too large prop.
No need to idle for hours, if there ever was...

Andrew

[link=http://media.hobbypeople.net/manual/211280.pdf]Here's a link[/link] - the PDF is too large to attach.

andrew

Yuu

Thanks, Andrew. You have made it real easy to read the instructions.

wolfy888

Yuu, what I did is on post # 12; while it may not be as recommended from the mfr, it seems to have worked on mine. Andrew is correct on not lugging the motor too much during break-in, as it will overheat the cylinder and cause undue wear. In my case the ambient temp was about 55 degrees F., so I didn't see that problem. Now I'm seeing regular runs at 18,300 rpm, and it's probably due to the higher nitro content. Beware, as it will "burn it up" quickly without the extra castor. Hope this helps. Wolfy