putt_13

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Hello,
I just bought 2 Norvel .061 engines, or so I thought. Now, one is brand new, and it came in the Norvel .061 BigMig Sport box. The first picture I post will be of the .061 BigMig Sport. Then I got this other engine. The clyinder has differnt screw holes in it, and it doesnt have the same writing on the metal on the outside of the motor. It says .061 on it, but it doesnt look like the BigMig .061. Also, the Glow Heads are different sizes. The BigMigs is on the left, and the unknown is on the right. Could this be the AME? THanx -Patrick

This is the Brand New BigMig .061 Sport.

putt_13

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Hello,
Here is the unknown motor. It says .061 on the side, so I am guessing its the AME model. Any help?

putt_13

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Here are the glow heads. The unknown's is on the right, and BigMig is on the left. -Patrick

putt_13

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Cylinders. The BigMig is on the left, and unknown on the right. -Patrick

Japanman

I` say you have a bigmig .061- if you look in the cylinder it should have 5 transfer ports and 1 exhaust port. (the ame has 3 transfer ports and 1 exhaust port)

the other engine is the 0.074 bigmig- hense the bigger glowplug.

cheers,
J.M

putt_13

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What exactly do these transfer ports do? The Unknown engine has a 061 on it. The BigMig .061 has a 1.0 on the side. I am confused. -Patrick

Japanman

Through the transfer ports the gases go from below the piston to above it- look inside the cylinder from the top with the piston at the bottom of its stroke.

J.M

putt_13

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How will I know the difference between the exhaust and transfer ports. Will the exhaust be larger, and/or on the side the muffler is on. -Patrick

PS- DO you know what the .061 means on this motor. Its top is so much larger, but it still says .061

William Robison

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Pat:

I think you got two 0.061 engines, but of two different series. The one one the left in your pictures, with the smaller head, is the earlier ABN design, the one on the right is the later AAC - the "Revlite" version.

I'm basing this mainly on the inspection of a cleaned up version of your pic showing both engines - note the bore looks the same. If the bore is not the same then the one on the right could well be the 0.074 engine.

All mine have been the 0.061 ABN versions, I'm guessing on the AAC.

I've stuck the enhanced picture on for all to see.

Bill.

PS: On the numbers? 1.0cc = 0.061 cubic inches. wr.

putt_13

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THanx for the help. Either way, I am breaking them in tomorrow. Are both of these engines reliable. Also, how is the ANB different from the AAC, besides that it is REVLITE. Thanx -Patrick

William Robison

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Pat:

played with your side views, looks like your "Unknown" engine says AMD on the side. Didn't bother with making them the same size here, just stuck the two pictures into one.

Bill.

William Robison

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Pat:

1) The OLD standard was a steel cylinder, an aluminum piston, and a cast iron ring on the piston. Low tech, Model T class.

2) Then came the lapped pistons, still (usually) a steel cylinder and a meehanite piston, a special type of iron. The piston was carefully finished to seal in the bore without using a ring.

Types one and two normally have straight cylinder bores, but some of the late Cox TeeDee engines use a tapered bore with a lapped piston.

Then Clarence Lee, at Veco, started checking thermal expansion rates, and came up with what he (or Veco) called "Temperature Controlled Clearance." This, along with more research on cylinder coatings led to the first "Modern" engines, the ABC type.

3) Aluminum piston, Brass sleeve, and Chrome plating in the sleeve.

The aluminum alloy of the piston is chosen such that its expansion will be in prooportion to the sleeve, maintaining the correct wall clearance, and therefore, the piston seal. But since the top of the bore gets hotter than the bottom, the top will expand more. To compensate for this the bore is tapered, and the piston approaches zero wall clearance at the top of the bore when the engine is cold. The engine has to stay up around 200 degrees to have the proper piston fit at the top of the stroke. And this is why you do not run any taper bore engine in a four stroke - it stays too cool, putting excessive loads on the connecting rod, accellerating cylinder and piston wear, causing the rod to break, or both.

4) Along with ABC, some makers such as Saito, went to AAC. This is Aluminum piston, Aluminum cylinder, and Chrome plated cylinder wall. This is much older technology than the ABC engines, McCullough drone engines used this in the late 1940s, and the Porsche sports cars have used it since the middle 1950s. But it is relatively new to model engines. AAC engines also usually have piston rings and straight bore cylinders.

5) ABN engines have aluminum pistons and brass cylinders, with nickel replacing the chrome plating. These are all tapered bore, without piston rings. Their advantage is the lower cost of the nickel plating. They do not wear as well as the chromed bores, they wear out faster since the nickel is also softer than the chrome. The early NorVel engines were ABN.

6) Aluminum piston, Aluminum cylinder, Ceramic, is the latest, also known as "Rev-Lite." Since the "AAC" acronym was already taken somebody is going to have to come up with a new one. Maybe AAM, for "Mason" jar liner? Or AAG (glass) for the noise you make when you realize you've broken the rod. The ceramic coating is porous, it needs to be oil soaked for safety before running the engine. Supposedly it has the wear characteristics of chrome but not the cost. Time will tell.

HTH.

Bill.

wild fred

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actually they are both revlites. the first revlites that norvel made were just like the nickel engines. they only made those for a short period of time. they just hard anodized the early cylinder. most people never see an engine like that, and down the road that will probably be a collecter's item. I only have seen a couple of them. they run about like the big fin revlites.

so, the small fin engin is one of the first revlite .061's. the big fin is a later model. as far as ame or not, you will have to check the ports; but both are revlites. If in doubt, email the pics to ed stevens. he will tell you the same thing. the early engine is about 3 years old.

I had one of those early revlites that I sold to a guy for a herr mustang. traded it back to me on a 15, and I put it in several planes before selling it to somebody. it was also one of the first with the bolt on carb.

William Robison

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Fred:

Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't know there were two different fin sizes on the Rev Lite variants.

Bill.

putt_13

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THanx for the info

putt_13

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THanx for the info

wild fred

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William; it is a very obscure engine, the small finned revlite. I had a shop a few years ago and the first revlites I got were small finned; 2 to be exact! my next shipment was the standard large finned ones like they currently make.

by the way, I love your tigerkitty! where is mary ester, fla.? anywhere near lakeland, so I can come over and see it fly sometime?

putt_13

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ok, I had some starting problems today. With the engine, I would connect the fuel line from the tank to the carb, and the line from the muffler from the tank. Now, when I covered the carb, and rotated the prop, the fuel didnt come into the engine from the tank. It just moved back and forth in the fuel line. Also, there were many bubbles in the line. Lastly, when I turn the prop, acter the compression, I hear a hissing sound, like its sucking in air, and not fuel. What should I do?? Thanx -Patrick

PS- IS there anyway to get the throttle arm not to move when you move the needle valve.


PSS- The HISSING sound i was talking about, well I Just looked into the cylinder, and after the piston reaches the top of the cylinder, on the way back down little air bubbles form around the piston head. What is this??

William Robison

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Fred:

Thanks for the words on the Tiggerkitty, it has two of the "Real" Russian AMD 0.061 engines, with the rear exhaust mufflers.

Mary Esther is all the way North and turn left for you, I'm about 35 miles East of Pensacola, on the West side of Fort Walton Beach. It would be a whale of a day trip for you - as I remember Lakeland is about 1/2 way between St. Pete and Orlando?

Pat:

The only way to keep the throttle arm from moving as you turn the needle valve is just hold it. Not meaning to sound smart, but that's the way they're made.

Your hissing is piston leakage. Perfectly normal for the engine when it's cold. Remember the clearance closing up as the engine heats?

The bubbles in the fuel line say you have an air leak, and the fuel running back immediately after choking says the tank is now too low.

Bill.

PS: Another of the Tiggerkitty:

putt_13

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OK, so when testing, you want the tank to be perfectly level with the carburator, but once the engine is running, it draws its own fuel. Also, my fuel in the tank is supposed to get greyish right, because of the exhaust running into it. Also, do I need the screen on the carb? -Patrick

Japanman

Hi, I took another look at those photos and i revised my decision- i can see a wire holding the muffler on- which is normal for the .061/.049 engines. The different sized glowplugs is odd, though. They should be a very neat fit into the top of the cylinder, under the head.

The exhaust port is the biggest one that goes to the muffler.

Is the leaking around the glow plug? if so, do you have some copper gaskets under the glow plug?- they are needed to make the perfect seal necesary.

J.M

putt_13

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Hello,
Yes, there are 3 of those copper gaskets under the glowplug. I might add more once NORVEL sends me the replacements. What are these gaskets for then. http://www.shopatron.com/product/pro....265.261.0.0.0 Thanx -Patrick

William Robison

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Pat:

Start with at least three plug gaskets. They are the "Shims" we've been talking about.

The gaskets shown in the URL you posted go between the cylinder barrel and the crankcase.

Bill.

putt_13

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How often should i change the Cylinder/Crankcase gasket? -Patrick

putt_13

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Just got my first tank through. It went pretty good. BUT, my engine doesnt suck gas into the cylinder, if I plug the carb. I have to prime it by putting some nitro into the carb screen. Either way, it was fun, and wow, I think these guys will be fun to fly with. My NORVEL glow gaskets should be here any day now, so once here, I will put more in, and see if the leak in the other engine is done. I also got an electric starter for 1/2a engines for 4 bucks. The guys says it worked great, so I am really happy to finally not have to use a chicken stick FOREVER to start it. -Patrick