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-   -   Herr Little Extra w ASP .12 (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/1-2-1-8-airplanes-70/10745362-herr-little-extra-w-asp-12-a.html)

buzzard bait 10-02-2011 03:21 PM

Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
1 Attachment(s)
I picked up one when Sig was closing them out, because people on this forum liked them so much. Finally got it off the shelf and finished it up.

I heeded the advice about using a larger engine, and the lousy peeling covering material. Sealed seams with orange automotive striping tape and got rid of the pin stripes that were peeling off anyway. Also added a few florescence orange patches to improve visibility. Here it is...

buzzard bait 10-02-2011 03:28 PM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
1 Attachment(s)
I cut out a corner of the fuse for muffler clearance. Filled in with 1/64 ply and some putty. Then doped with some Ivory dope I had on hand, and did the whole engine compartment while I was at it. Matched the covering pretty well.

I put the engine as far back as I could and still get the fuel tubing out the hole. Inside, I cut out some wood next to the throttle servo and mounted the battery there; receiver in the space just ahead. That got things back far enough the plane balanced a 1/16 inch back of what the manual calls for. That will be fine.

Total weight is 28.7 ozs. I've got an MA 8x3 on the little ASP. I imagine that combo will pull things around pretty well. If I decide it's not turning up enough I'll cut the prop down to 7 1/2, or use a Rev-Up 7x 3 1/2.

A couple more pics...

buzzard bait 10-02-2011 03:34 PM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
Now can anyone help me out and tell me what to expect on the first flight? We keep our field mowed close, but I think it's too bumpy this year for a take-off with this little guy. I'll try giving it a shove on the ground, but I expect I'll end up hand-launching.

Years ago I hand launched everything I had, but it's been a long time. Plus this is a low-winger with very little dihedral, so I'm a little nervous about it.

I'm thinking just a hair of up elevator trim, because it won't stall quickly if it goes up, and there's not going to be much room for it to go down! I'm talking about barely enough to see.

Probably underhanded launch, which I've never done. It's too hard to hold underneath, I think.

Should I give it a hair of right rudder trim?

You guys who've been flying these planes, please let me know what you think.

Thanks!

Jim

soarrich 10-02-2011 04:25 PM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: buzzard bait

please let me know what you think.

I wish I could build that nice, good job.

I'd get someone to handlaunch it for me. Low winggers like this I hold under the wing with the left hand and under the stab with the right, then shove with the right.

buzzard bait 10-02-2011 05:01 PM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
Thanks much Rich; it's an ARF, so I can only take credit for the decorating. They were Herr products, and Sig used to sell them. They were very well done, except for the covering material. Glad you like it.

Having someone else launch it is a good idea. I'm just not sure there's anyone in the club I would trust to do that, because I don't think anyone is very experienced at it. But maybe that's not really true and I'm just fussing over my plane too much.

Jim

mylamo 10-02-2011 09:50 PM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
Don't fuss ,it is only like you said , an ARF !
ralph

skaliwag 10-02-2011 09:55 PM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
You have an ASP 12 on the front. SIG sold them to have a 074 on there. Try 2 sheets of ply for a runway. It will be in the air before it gets onto sheet #2

buzzard bait 10-03-2011 04:14 AM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
Yes, I'm sure that would work, but I was thinking of cardboard. Something about having a nice little airplane, easy to transport, and then hauling two pieces of plywood to the field seems a little contradictory.

I have a Norvel 074, but it sounded like people who tried it in this plane were not happy with it. I normally lean toward lightness over power with my planes, especially scale types, but after all, this is an Extra, and really more of a fun fly type, so I went with a bigger engine.

Jim

soarrich 10-03-2011 04:28 AM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
Ithaca, NY

Wait a week and takeoff from the snow's crust!:D

mtntopgeo 10-03-2011 08:11 AM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
First off; you/re gonna love that plane................ Second; Take good care of it, the "Counterfit Extras" (Extra Sportster, available on the auction site & Value Hobby) are considerably heavier than the original (But they still fly great). Pretty much agree with everything that has been said here. Also, even if you have a golf green to take off at, it's nice to have at least 2" dia. wheels. Yeah, with the .12 size engine & a 8x3 prop, the thing is gonna leap off the ground (I use a 7x4 prop on a CVR .12, & it still gets the Counterfit Extra off in a hurry) but you still have to land it. Any little divot will flip the plane over. Too late now, but before I got with a club that had a runway, I always mounted the aileron servos on top of the wing, & ditched the landing gear. ........ Underhand launching can be a little intimidating. Some guys learn to launch with the left hand so to keep the right thumb on the stick. This plane will launch like it is on its own set of railroad tracks. I just hold the transmitter out with my left hand, underhand launch with the right, & follow thru with the right hand straight into the transmitter. Do NOT let anyone else launch unless you really are sure that they know what the're doing. Only tip;. on landing, the plane is a "floater" . Don't be surprised, on your first landing attempt, if you've used up all the runway, & the plane is still 4' off the ground. Good flying to you. ...................... George K.
P.S. I' still got two of the original Herr units NIB, also one or two of the counterfit units waiting on the shelf. Did I mention that I like this plane???

hkbii 10-03-2011 10:36 AM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
1 Attachment(s)
Howdy Gents.I have one of these planes. It came with a o.s .15 on it. It flew real nice but on its frist landing the landing gear ripped out of the fuse. and it was a nice landing. it should not have torn lose. I put in a 1/8th inch ply plate in the nose and made up a wire landing gear and put 2in wheels on her. NowI fly it in the gravle pit with no problems. Shooting touch and goes with this plane is just to much of the fun not to have landing gear. I replaced the o.s .15 with a o.s .20 FS. It handels the weight just fine. Keith

eroc144 10-03-2011 11:47 AM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
I'm still kicking myself for not getting one of these during the months that Sig was clearing them out. What was I thinking?

I ended up putting an OS .30 Surpass on my counterfeit Extra, then added carbon fiber landing gear so I could get it high enough to swing a 10" prop w/o adding too much weight. And I recovered it since the original monocote job was pretty bad and had to move the servos to the tail and the batteries to the turtledeck to balance it and... The list goes on.

But like George says, these planes are fun!

EG

buzzard bait 10-03-2011 05:47 PM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
Thanks guys, I really appreciate reading your experiences and advise, and it's also nice to hear how much you all like the plane.

I think what I will do is take off those pretty little wheel pants, and put on 2 1/4 inch wheels. Then I'll probably have a good chance of flying off our grass. A hand launch might be fine, but it feels risky to me on a first flight...if anything goes wrong there just isn't much time. Once I know it's trimmed, different story.

I'm disappointed to hear that the gear breaks off easily, but maybe that was a poor glue joint, since not everyone is reporting that problem. If it happens to me, then I'll go the wire gear route. There's no flex in that aluminum at all, so it makes sense that wire would be better. I agree about wanting functioning landing gear for this plane. I used to fly even smaller planes off our grass, but back then we had a field marshal who was a fanatic about rolling the field, so it was much smoother then.

OK, I hope to try this on Wednesday, if the weather forecast holds up. And Rich, you be quiet about that white stuff...not yet!

Jim

mtntopgeo 10-04-2011 10:12 AM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: buzzard bait



I'm disappointed to hear that the gear breaks off easily, but maybe that was a poor glue joint, since not everyone is reporting that problem. If it happens to me, then I'll go the wire gear route. There's no flex in that aluminum at all, so it makes sense that wire would be better. I agree about wanting functioning landing gear for this plane. I used to fly even smaller planes off our grass, but back then we had a field marshal who was a fanatic about rolling the field, so it was much smoother then.


Jim

As with all ARFs, it's good practice to "reglue" everything that's reachable, I' ve also had some landing gear mount issues with this plane. Since then, I've re-enforced both the landing gear area & the plank that holds the t-nut(s) for the wing hold down. An extra seam of Ambroid (substitute with your favorite glue) is probably enough, but I stuff in some small (1/4") tri-stock where ever I can.
....................... George K.

flyinrog 10-04-2011 01:47 PM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
mine has an os .15la on it and I run 2.5 inch racing wheels , just thin plastic discs really...I think they are hays but could be dubro...you need about 12 feet of run way, but I dead stick all my landings because it easier to me,,yes it bites me in the butt every now and then, but I have one in the box too....Rog

buzzard bait 10-06-2011 07:21 AM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
1 Attachment(s)
OK, here it is with 2 1/2 inch wheels. They came from my LA Racer 40; I put bigger wheels on that plane too.

It's slightly lighter without the wheel pants, even with the big wheels. I'm feeling way better about doing the maiden flight now, because I'm sure the plane can get off the grass with these. I also get a bit more clearance for the 8 inch prop. Not quite as pretty, but not ridiculous either.

I couldn't get into the lg block, so no extra gluing or reinforcement. If it breaks, I'll deal with it then. The aluminum gear actually has a little more spring than I thought, so I'm hopeful.

I'm amazed anyone could stuff a 4 stroke into it. I like the .12, because it still balanced just by putting the battery and rx in the middle. At 28 1/2 oz, it feels light and ready to take to the air.

Maiden will be today or tomorrow. Field is a little soft with all the rain we've been getting, but the grass is short.

Oh...did any of you shorten the antenna by coiling it up the way they suggested? I've done that with mine, but I'll be doing a careful range check.

Jim

mtntopgeo 10-06-2011 10:00 AM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: buzzard bait


At 28 1/2 oz, it feels light and ready to take to the air.



Oh...did any of you shorten the antenna by coiling it up the way they suggested? I've done that with mine, but I'll be doing a careful range check.

Jim

That's the big difference between the "real" Lil' Extra, & the counterfit unit. Just finishing up a counterfit one now, (with Enya .09 power) & dry weight is right at 32OZs. The one I put together, last month, also was at 32 OZs and it had a heavier engine (CVR.12). .................... Have always shyed away from coiling up the antenna, but most guys I've talked to, have had no problems with that practice. ............................. George K.

buzzard bait 10-06-2011 03:58 PM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
Yeah, I was impressed that all the flying and control surfaces are built up construction, not sheet...nice and light.

I went to the field and got an excellent range check despite the coiled Rx antenna in the fuse. Fired up the engine and got 15,650 with the MA 8x3 prop. That outta do!

Then a few more checks and suddenly the plane is not responsive to the radio. I suspected a bad micro switch. But I opened up the plane and found a connector that was not tight. I always try to check for those and tape any that are the least bit suspect, but I missed this one. And no tape in my tool box! I could work the radio when I plugged the connector in all the way, but I can't chance it backing out. So it's a beautiful afternoon, my engine is running like gang busters, I've done the range check, and I have to hang it up.

Well, I've finally concluded that I need an extra of everything I want at the field, so I can keep a repair box in the car all the time. Otherwise I raid my flight box for something when I'm in the shop, and something needed is not there.

Fortunately the weather for tomorrow looks even better.

Jim

buzzard bait 10-07-2011 05:08 PM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
It took off our grass field easily and flew great. I need to get much more throttle throw...could only drop down to about 7000 rpm, so I only had cruising speed to full power. I think I need to get rid of the tube for the throttle push rod. Solid wire inside a tube causes servo strain. Took off anyway, flew till my 3 oz tank was drained (which seemed like a pretty long time) and then glided it in for a nice landing. This will be sweet when I have the throttle working well.

Ailerons gave a lightening roll rate at the recommended throws, or maybe slightly more. But I was using expo and had no trouble making very slow rolls as well. Elevator seemed just right with the recommended throws. CG is just a touch aft of the recommended point. Lots of rudder throw, but no problems on takeoff. Looking forward to next time!

Jim

mtntopgeo 10-08-2011 06:58 AM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
Jim, congrats on the maiden. Knew that you'd like that plane.!!!!!!! .................. For the throttle, the pushrod sleeve is much too close to the servo, as set up from the factory. I cut off & discard any of the sleeve aft of the leading edge, & I also use .047" piano wire for the push rod. (plenty strong for throttle use) . .................... Well I'm out the door to maiden my .09 powered counterfit unit. Trying to get an informal, slow, "old man's" pylon event started at the club. Would like to use this combo as the standard. Intention is to use this unit as a "hands on" example for others to try. Odds are that there will not be enough interested parties; but, gotta try & start somewhere. Wish me luck. ......................... George K.

buzzard bait 10-23-2011 02:31 PM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
I think I'm in wuv. Perfect day, I've got the ASP .12 running and throttling really well now, and the plane is a blast. It's so light, quick and controllable that I can enjoy it right over the field very close in and still feel very comfortable. The HXT-900 servos on the ailerons seem flawless to me.

So thanks everyone, for convincing me to get this little guy before it was too late.

As for the future, I might have to design something simpler, but at least as light or lighter, to replace it when the inevitable catches up with it. I know about the other ARF, but the lightness really matters to me.

I don't think the wing taper is essential to its flying characteristics. I think something like a mini ultra stick using the same airfoil as the Little Extra could fill the bill. I like canopies and side area, so I would add something on the top, but keep it simple. So we're talking about a 36 inch span, 8 inch chord, symmetrical airfoil that's a little slimmer than the one on a Stick, a fairly long fuse, and about 24 ounces. Not exactly radical, but nice workable design parameters.

Oh, and the florescent orange patches are HIGHLY recommended, especially for something so small and quick.

Jim

gmeyers 10-30-2011 12:04 PM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
I bought a couple at close out too - I put Supertiger X-11 in one and it was great until I did lefthand snap roll followed by a righthand snaproll and the fuse broke right at the canopy. It sort of fluttered down so the crash did no more damage. I have a machine shop in the basement so I was able to make an exhaust adapter to get the muffler out of the fuse. I believe that was a good match of engine to airplane in terms of performance.

gmeyers 10-30-2011 12:07 PM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
I forgot to mention that I used Black Baron Balsarite to hold down the cheap covering that came on the little something extra.

buzzard bait 10-31-2011 04:51 PM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
Seems like a really odd failure...middle of fuselage, in flight. Any idea what happened?

What prop on the X-11 and what rpm? I like the MA 8x3 on mine. I know it would go faster with a smaller prop, but I don't need more speed and I like the vertical and the ability to slow down right away when I throttle back.

buzzard bait 08-15-2012 06:00 PM

RE: Herr Little Extra w ASP .12
 
Old thread, but just thought I'd follow up a little.

The ASP .12 has terrific power but the throttle is not so impressive. Both needles are very touchy. I even have to adjust the low speed needle for weather conditions because the line between too rich and too lean almost doesn't exist. Might switch to a more reliable Enya .09 IV or OS FSR .10. I have better luck with the old air bleed carbs.

I wonder if the engine would throttle up and down more reliably with less prop load? Maybe if I went to a 7x3.5 it wouldn't be such a bear to needle it. The venturi is pretty big for such a little engine.

I like going into a snap roll full throttle and then throttling back. The spins slow down and pretty soon it just floats around and the lightness of the plane makes it very easy to come out whatever direction I want.

I use a lot of expo on the ailerons, and once it awhile I get surprised by how quick it becomes when I use more of the throw. Expo can catch you off guard...almost lost it. This plane is very good for the reflexes!



Jim


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