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-   -   Rockets (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/1-2-1-8-airplanes-70/4133211-rockets.html)

adam_s_101 04-06-2006 05:56 PM

Rockets
 
Has anyone tryed dropping a little rocket/bomb from a 1/2A size plane. Also today i was thinking, ive seen vids of people dropping foam rockets that just fall to the ground and hit targets, why not make one that propels itself forward. does anyone know if this has been tryed before. i was thinking that if the rocket was held in place below the fuse which held a microswitch open, then when the rocket is released by a servo, the microswitch can close and make th circuit between a batt and a rocket motor. then a little rocket goes screaming across the sky. i think i have to give this a go, it wouldnt be hard to make:D

Sneasle 04-06-2006 06:19 PM

RE: Rockets
 
its against the AMA rules. nice way yo get yourself banned.

BMatthews 04-06-2006 06:38 PM

RE: Rockets
 
It's likely against the model flying organizations in the UK as well. I'm assuming you are a member for insurance purposes.

Some folks have used a larger model to carry up a radio controlled rocket plane that is then dropped and the rockets ignited under command of the rocket pilot but that's a different issue.

Anyway it raises severe safety issues. Very much a DO NOT DO situation.

mclintock 04-06-2006 07:00 PM

RE: Rockets
 
Should you do it anyway, be sure to have help with putting the forest fire out while the plane is landed. Or do it over a body of water.

Better yet use a water propelled 'bottle rocket', if you can figure out how to get the end to release, it takes considerable force sometimes, but at least you won't wind up in Guantanamo Bay.

KidEpoxy 04-06-2006 08:29 PM

RE: Rockets
 
as a stickler fo details, is there an actual law (Fed/state) or just the AMA rule?
OK, before I get hounded, lets just look at the waterballoon drop before a million rocketry/incindiary regs come flying at me.
Is there a CFR or actual state law about a waterballoon drop?

mclintock 04-06-2006 08:52 PM

RE: Rockets
 
It's an AMA rule, but it may also be actually illegal according to acutal laws too.

I saw the rule in another forum, where there was a thread similar to this one. But I can't find it right now on the ama site..

BUt I did get a email about something that grates my nerves- I'll put it on another thread.

garytenpas 04-06-2006 09:20 PM

RE: Rockets
 
on hobby lobby's website, use the searchword, (bomb), they have a little bomb, that you fill with talcum powder, or flour.

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/

N925WB 04-06-2006 09:23 PM

RE: Rockets
 
The FAA Regulations allow dropping of objects from aircraft if they pose no threat to persons or property on the ground.

Here's the reg about dropping stuff:

§ 91.15 Dropping objects.
No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property. However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or property.


Check out the regs on UnManned Rockets:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...3.15.3&idno=14

As for launching rockets from model aircraft, that is definitely against AMA rules here in the US.

From the AMA Safety Code: http://modelaircraft.org/safetycode04.asp

7) I will not operate models with pyrotechnics (any device that explodes, burns, or propels a projectile of any kind) including, but not limited to, rockets, explosive bombs dropped from models, smoke bombs, all explosive gases (such as hydrogen filled balloons),... (cont'd)

-Wayne

KidEpoxy 04-06-2006 09:40 PM

RE: Rockets
 
I may not have spent much time as PIC of a 152, but enough to know Civil Aircraft has a bunch of definitions & requirements, such as the ones part103 listed that ULs dont have to obey. I'm wondering if that Reg is excluding/non-inclusive RC planes... not making assertions, just my line of wondering. Things like Dont a PIC need at least a Student/medical or Class3 or better? I'd flip thru the CFRs, but A- I don't have one in this state, B- I'm way too lazy

Sneasle 04-06-2006 09:56 PM

RE: Rockets
 
ya.. dropping a "bomb" (ie, no exploding) is fine.. like the egg drops you see at fun flys on occasion..

but i would recommend agaisnt the rocket anywhere somethgin coudl get set on fire or at a club field where you would get banned and possibly reported..

granted, i have had my own ideas.. like.. taking larger scale airplanes (p-51's, zeros, fulk wulfs, mess, and spits) and outfitting them with low pressure paintpall pellet guns and then doing a dog fight with them.. the paint balls would most likely not have the force nessesary to go through the covering, would not hurt anyone on the ground, and would make registering kills easy for a spotter on the ground and final scoring once the planes land very easy..

and then it woudl wash right off for the next go :) .. hehe...

anyway.. still not somethign that could be done with current rules. although i dont see many dangers with doing it this way, since people shoot each other with paintballs all the time and co2/compressed air is not somethign unusual on models, as long as spectators were wearing safety goggles, i think it would all be much fun :)

MJD 04-07-2006 02:30 PM

RE: Rockets
 
You also need to pay heed to your explosvies regulations. In Canada, for example, a model rocket motor is only a model rocket motor when it is used in accordance with the safety code, rules which include the angle of elevation limited to within 30 degrees of vertical, not firing towards ground or air targets, and other rules. When you do not comply with these rules, the motor in your hands loses its status as an authorized item and if you cause problems with it you can be charged under the Federal Explosives Act. As the UK is pretty tight about such things I'd think twice, or do a little research before you carry on.

Everyone wants to launch rockets and bombs.. :eek:

Sneasle 04-07-2006 02:58 PM

RE: Rockets
 
well. 30 degrees is easy.. just go into verticle, keep the tail of the rocket kinda heavy, and hope that it doesnt hit your plane on the way up :)

Sneasle 04-07-2006 03:00 PM

RE: Rockets
 
hey, i think it would be cool, if people were willing.. to maybe to a fake air attack type thing.. use water ballons on the planes or something.. and really small rockets on the ground on like 1/2a engines and then have the planes try and attack somethign on the groudn and have the rockets defend and try and shoot the planes down!...

so.. anyone wanna put their plane up to the challenge?

Wayne C 04-07-2006 04:49 PM

RE: Rockets
 
True enough, shooting a rocket from an r/c plane is against AMA rules. Providing that its not against the law, which it might be, I wonder if the AMA would allow for some kind of one event disclaimer relieving them of responsibilty for that one experiment wthout jepardizing your standing in general?

SGC 04-07-2006 05:28 PM

RE: Rockets
 
sneasle,
" just go into verticle, keep the tail of the rocket kinda heavy, "
If your going to play with rockets legaly or not at least learn about there aerodynamics, a rocket constructed as per your statement is EXTREMLY unstable, it will loop and change direction at will- flight direction unpredictable.
For a rocket to maintain a stable flight its CG must be ahead of its CP(centre of pressure) by at least 1D( D= body diameter), then there are fin size/ number , nose cone shape in relation to body dia and expected flight velocity considerations. Even a stick rocket falls within these design rules - try cutting 1/2 the stick off and see what happens.
Stewart

Sneasle 04-07-2006 06:11 PM

RE: Rockets
 
ya, i know.. i work with rockets fro mtime to time. i was just tring to say in a simplified manner that the rocket should be balanced in a way that it doesnt nose down when it drops. is obvious i didnt word it right. sorry bout that.

still, its not something i would try...

Bipe Flyer 04-07-2006 09:18 PM

RE: Rockets
 
The rules for th [link=http://www.bmfa.org]BMFA[/link] seem to be pretty much the same as those for the [link=http://www.modelaircraft.org]AMA[/link] and [link=http://www.maac.ca]MAAC[/link].

From the BMFA handbook.
"(a) Model rockets must be constructed of
lightweight materials, with no metal structural parts.
(b) Only unmodified factory produced motors may
be used.
(c) All models must have a reliable recovery system
(parachute/streamer) or suitable aerodynamic
surfaces so that a safe return to ground is made on
each flight.
(d) Models must be launched from a stable platform
equipped as a minimum with a launch rod for initial
guidance and must not be launched at an angle of
more than 30o from the vertical.
(e) Motors must be ignited electrically, with the
operator and any spectators being at least 5 metres
from the model. A clearly audible countdown of at
least 5 seconds must be given by the launch
supervisor. In the event of a misfire, do not approach
the model until it is certain that ignition will not
occur.
(f) Flying sites must be clear and open and models
should only be flown in conditions of good visibility.
(g) Where spectators are present, a Range Safety
Officer should be appointed to take responsibility
for all flying activity.
(h) For more information plus a detailed set of
safety rules, contact the Association’s Leicester
Office."

Sneasle 04-07-2006 09:36 PM

RE: Rockets
 
ya, those sound about right.
so tring this would break some rules, but hey, if you dont care about that and think you can do it, dinf yourself a dirt field away from people and give it a shot...

darwin award maybe?

KidEpoxy 04-07-2006 10:08 PM

RE: Rockets
 
Or you could be Jamie & Adam and pack your own BlackPowder rocket and show video footage of you doing these things on MythBusters... so we know some guys that are not NASA, JPL, or even Cops, doing what any reasonably informed hobiest would consider "That has got to be breaking like a dozen laws"

And we also saw what happend to the guy on the RocketChair... Bang instead of Whoosh. So did they pack PipeBombs... on film... in California? Where do we get them permits :)

Clean 04-07-2006 10:14 PM

RE: Rockets
 
If you want to play shooting down the airplanes, just get one of the Paintball guns and try shooting a plane going by, I suggest using a SPAD. Harder than snot to hit one. Shooting a rocket at a plane has the chance of deflecting the rocket and hitting something a little more valuable, like YOU. Depth perception is extrememly difficult with flying model airplanes, combat pilots understand that. Aiming your model at something and trying to hit it with a projectile is nearly impossible. The more likely result is hitting something you didn't intend to. At lease you might hit yourself, but more than likely you'd hit something that wasn't you. If you caused damage, you'd spark a whole bunch of do gooders to outlaw our preacious little hobby.

Amazingly, we have to keep this subject of rockets off the SPAD forum, constantly. Any mention, RATO, model rockets, tenious on bomb drops, because it always drops down to the lowest, idiot demoniator. Ooo, lets shoot rockets at something and see if it blows up, cool. Oh, I know it's just a natural thing, I used to think of it too, till you weight the benefits against the possible costs.

If you want to drop something, one of those little Vortex bombs is pretty fun. A cheaper thing would be what my friend uses for his b-17, 1 liter pop bottles with fins added and half a superball on the other side. Flies good and bounces to be re-used again. I make styrofoam flour bombs out of 5 ounce coffee cups. Fill the bottom cup and cap it with a fit piece of construction paper, glue another cup to the top and then glue the bottom of another cup to the top of the assy. This makes a disposable bomb that flies well, is fairly lightweight and makes a good puff when it hits. Be carefull how you drop it and where making allowances for wind drift. Less than a cup of flower does make an impact, it'd pop a wing pretty good.

There is too much fun to be done legally to justify breaking the law and endangering yourself, others or us all. You get tired of dropping bombs or parachutes, or toilet paper, I'll introduce you to milk jug bowling. You'll want a SPAD for that as well.

Oh, for 1/2A, you can just put a couple tablespoons of flower in a square of plastic wrap or tissue paper if you want to bio-degrade. Tie it up with a piece of dental floss and drop that from your 1/2A, it'll make a nice little puff of 'smoke' when it hits.

Sorry, soft subject for me, don't mean to be preachy. Just don't do it and don't talk about it, some kid will make your nightmares come true.

Bipe Flyer 04-07-2006 10:22 PM

RE: Rockets
 
The X-1 dropped from the B-29 is rocket powered. I wonder how they get away with doing that.
http://67.18.81.100/rcuvideos/magazi...deo/bomber.wmv
http://www.rcgroups.com/articles/ezonemag/2004/jun/seff/Mac's%20B-29%20flight.wmv

Clean 04-07-2006 10:51 PM

RE: Rockets
 
It's controlled, essentially a RATO airplane. RATO is not against the rules, in fact, its a model Rocket contest. In the case of FF powered Rocket propelled gliders, they are launched not less than 30 degrees from the verticle.

Bipe Flyer 04-07-2006 10:59 PM

RE: Rockets
 
So, radio controlled rockets would be OK? Aside from the fact that they'd probably be more dangerous with someone behind the sticks than in free flight.

Sneasle 04-07-2006 11:05 PM

RE: Rockets
 
not toooooo much different from piggy backing a glider up to altitude...

actually, i like the paintball idea... might prove to be interesting.. 1/2a size would be hard to hit, especially high speed passes. i think the bigger ones woudl be signifigantly easier, especially if they expose there wings to the shot.

KidEpoxy 04-07-2006 11:33 PM

RE: Rockets
 
Sneasle-
You ever try the WW2 online sim Aces High?
That will test your mettle
and give you a real appreciation for maneuvers, speed, controls & air

and you get to shoot folks, 400-500 guys in a 500mile combat theater


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