When I put in aerobatics, that is what I was referring to. 3D, is not where I am headed although some moves are similar. I respect those that can hang a plane from is prop, but I want to fly different patterns as in IMAC, but want a non-pattern type plane. I remember some while back that one of the club members was saying that there are some planes in the Sukhoi, Yak, Edge, and Extra types that are easier to move to than others. I just can't remember what was said.