hotdogx

I have a 14 turn Astro 010 brushless that I have been flying direct drive. It seems to have power almost equal to my SP400 motor. If I install the new small Astro 3.3:1 gearbox and an APC 9x4.7 prop on 3 etec 1200 Li-Po cells (around 62 watts at 6000 rpm according to the web site), will it be suitable for any small 3D planes? I kind of like the new Verti-Go from Radical RC, but it seems a bit heavy. Perhaps using the geared Astro in a T3D, 3DX, or similar would work? Any input would be appreciated. Hopefully someone has tried the little geared Astro. I realize the Razor and Hacker motors are probably superior, but I'd like to use the Astro since I already have it.

Bill Mixon

The combo you listed according to motocalc would put out approx. 12oz. of thrust, 29 mph pitch speed, 4.3 amps and about 59 watts.

It looks better with a bigger prop like the 10X4.7, however the amps go up of course.

Do you know the weight of the Verti-go?
I think I've seen this plane fly. I didn't understand why the wing was flat bottom. It seemed to harrier well and hover ok though.

Bill

hotdogx

Bill,

Thanks for the Motocalc results. Guess I'm gonna have to get that program! Unfortunately, Radical RC has very little in the way of specs about the Verti-Go on their web site. I seem to recall having seen a weight somewhere, possibly on RCUniverse, that it weighs around 11 ozs. They use what is apparently a hot SP300 size motor, but I don't know any specs on it. I wondered about the reason for the flat-bottom airfoil also, but it is very thin, so it might not make a whole lot of difference. Maybe that helps it do good harriers. I have an original full house design with symmetrical airfoil, 30" span and 225 sq. in. using a GWS IPS-A drive and it weighs 7.1 ozs. with an 8 cell 300 NiMH pack. Flies great but won't hover. I might try the Astro geared motor in it with 3 Li-Po cells. with 12 ozs. static thrust it should hover easily at 8 or 9 ozs. with the Astro set-up.

AtomHeartMother

I'd check the numbers on a gws gearbox...maybe the 5.33:1(or whatever it is), or the 6.6:1 ratios. You can swing a much larger prop that way and develop some serious thrust with an acceptable amp draw. With these motors regarding 3D it's all about swinging the biggest diameter prop you can, imho.
I have a friend who's got the 10 and 14 turn astro's in gws gearboxs. The 14 turn is on an e-starter and with a 3 cell e-tech it's pretty much ballistic.
I have a T3D with a modest M-100 brushed motor on a gws 6.6:1 gearbox swinging a 12 inch prop. On a 2 cell e-tech I get hover power for 25 minutes ! This with an amp draw of only 3.7 at full throttle. Very efficient... My T3D probably weighs 6.5 to 7oz's now with landing gear. Anyway, performance would only be better with the astro. Alot of people sell the 14 turn short, but with the right gearbox, big prop and 3 cell e-techs, you'll have a winner. I'd even try one on the foamy factory 3d plane..is it the 3DX ?? Cheap airframe...free plans...good to experiment with weights and thrust.

Bill Mixon

Your welcome, Al
Motocalc is fun to play with, but you have to remember that it's not perfect.

I calculated a 10x4.7 with the 14t 01 3.3:1 3s lithium and got the following..
6.1 amps, 63 watts, 15.4 oz thrust, 27.2 mph pitch speed.

I've been trying to find a replacement for the IPS for a while now. I've got a 36" 310 sq" indoor 3D plane that really needs a motor. I've been flying it with the IPS twin motors, but would like more power.
So I'm sort of in the same boat as you.

I happen to have a 16 wind 01 of my own, without SC.
I have been only looking at a few of the outrunners, the Hacker B20 31S 4:1, and the Razor heli V2 in a GWS drive. Untill reading your post I had not thought about gearing my astro and giving it a try.
I run the #'s on my 16 turn with the 3.3:1 drive and the lighter 700 ET cells 3s with a 11X6 prop..
5.9 amps, 14.9 oz thrust, 27 mph pitch speed.
The amps may be a little high for the 700's but that would get my flying down to just under 8oz. So at hover input power I would be pulling approx 3.3 amps. With thrust to weight near 2 to 1.

If you only have to buy the drive for your 01, you might want to try it and see how it performs. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work well.

Regards,
Bill

Bill Mixon

Atom,

Where do you get the GWS drive with a pinion gear that will fit the 01 motor. Do you know if the case ID fits the OD of the 01 or does the drive have to be modified.
I've heard of running the Razors in the GWS EPS 300, but not the Astro.
Any info on this would be appreciated.

I run the #'s for the 14 T with the 5.33:1 GWS drive with a 12X8 prop and 3s Lipo and got this..
5.1 amps, 16.3 oz thrust, 29.9 pitch speed

Same setup with a 13X7 prop..
5.8 amps, 19.7 oz thrust, 25.4 pitch speed.

Bill

AtomHeartMother

Bill, aeromicro has "customized" gws gearboxes in various ratios for about 20 bucks. I believe you can also get the pinions with that combo. Last time I checked their site they were on order though. The 14 turn has a 2.3mm shaft doesn't it ? Anyway, I am almost certain that's where my buddy got his gearbox and pinion from for his 14 turn that he runs in his e-starter. I think you need to shave the inside of the gearbox case just a bit if you want to do one yourself. The key after that is to be certain you can get the right gear mesh once you get the motor in. Actually I think that's where the guy at aeromicro got the idea to market them since so many people were posting their results with them online.
Your numbers are about what I guessed actually. For true 3D performance you'd be looking at a 9 ounce plane- ready to fly weight. I think that's "doable" in foam.
I wonder what their next ratio down would yield ? It's like a 4.43:1 or something. My goal is to have enough power for 3D thru most of the battery's charge. I know..it's alot to ask...hehe...
My T3D combo puts out about 10 oz of thrust. It climbs out with authority...not a rocket..but does well. It has enough power to give me confidence to harrier and hover close to the deck even after 20 minutes....anyway, that's off topic. But I do think the 14 turn and a gws gearbox could be shoe horned into a T3D, giving maybe an 8 oz plane. Wing loading would suffer though. I've often thought about duplicating the T3D in depron with a flat plate wing....if one wanted to scratch a design like that...it would be another option for the 14 turn astro.

Bill Mixon

Thanks for the info.

I don't know about Al's 14T, but my 16T has a .125" or approx 3.18mm shaft.

I think for my use the 4.43:1 ratio would work best with the 16 turn, from the calculations I've done so far. 12X8 prop
The flying weight of my 36" plane would be between 6.5 and 7oz. With a thrust of 14.9oz, PS of 29 @ 4.9 amps.

Might could use a larger diameter prop with lower gearing if the pitch speed will not be a problem.

Bill

Kirkman

I am flying the 010 astroflight w/a 6.6-1 gws (D-gearing)swinging the 12-6 & 12-8 props on a 30" wing span fan fold plane with 11v,1200ma li po. it is good for 3D... If you do go with the GWS gearbox you have to have approx .030 turned out of the center because of the larger diameter of the 010.. as it has been said, It wont run with the razer or hacker but will give good performance remember: bigger prop, smaller pitch, better 3D....

Blackhawk3D

Can the Astro motors put out the same amount of power the Razors and Himaxx motors can? I like them but don't know if they can keep up.

AtomHeartMother

Depends which of each brand you're talking about.
You'll need to look at the Kv ratings of the motors in question. The Astro 010, 10 turn is around 3500Kv, whereas a Himax 2015-4100 has a Kv of 4100 or so. Also the razor 300 and 350 I think also have Kv ratings over 4000 so all of those motors will have more power than the astro 010, 10 turn, which is more powerful than the Astro 14 turn.

Kirkman

the astro 010 will hold its own but it wont compete w/the hi-maxx 4100 or the razor 350. they have much more torque and they turn faster. I "DO" like the way my edge flys with this setup.

3Dreaming

My Feedback: (1)

Kirk, so you are flying a Edge now. Don't you think it is a sweet flying airplane? Tom

Blackhawk3D

I am going to use an Astro 10 turn on a Southern X2. I was going to use a Himaxx 2015-4100. I put both through motocalc and found that the Astro was a better combo. With a GWS D box and a 12x6 the astro made around 23-24 oz of thrust static, at 8 amps. The himaxx made 26 oz. of thrust at 11amps. I decided that was a reasonable trade off because I will be using Lipo batteries, and this will not even be stressing them. It is an 11oz plane, so it is still more than a 2:1 thrust:weight ratio. I think that the Astro motors can Run with the Razors, they may not put out quite as much thrust but are less amp hungry.

Kirkman

I DO like the EDGE. I went ahead and trimmed the wing and its a torque rolling maniac.. "BUT" something keeps bringing me back to the CAP. I think you will be supprised how well it is flying now. you gonna be around sun. If it dont snow, we were gonna try to fly some. But that dont stop these.[sm=idea.gif]

3Dreaming

My Feedback: (1)

I don't know about Sunday yet ask me Monday and I can tell you for sure. Tom

i3dm

My Feedback: (51)

OK guys, sorry for bumping an old thread but this containg EXACTLY what i want to do.
i would like to use my Astro 010 with a GWS 6.6 gearbox on a shock flyer or T3D CAP, can someone give me instructions on how to fit the motor in the gear box, and how to calculate which prop to use ? i will be happy with something of about 10 x 4.7, thats what i fly on my AXI 2208\34.
thanks.

Bill Mixon

You will probably have to try a few props on your setup to get where you want. Use Motocalc or some other calc program to get close.
I posted about what I wanted to try with my 010 above. I ended up using a mp 4.1:1 drive with a 12X8 gws prop on 3s lipo.
I bought one of the gws 4.4:1 drives to use the same prop at less amps. I understand that the case inside diameter of the gws case is being bored out to fit the 010 motor. I started to do this, but found that the out side edge of the shaft bearings are already almost touching the stock motor. So really it isn't possible to put an 010 motor in the gws box. I don't know what aeromicro, and others are doing to get the motor in this drive without interfering with the bearings and or changing the gear lash. It's simply not possible
I've been tempted to turn down the case of my motor to fit in the drive instead.

What wind or turn 010 do you have and what battery do you intend to run?

I have a 2208-34 and run that same 10X4.7 prop on 2s lipo, and a 9X3.8 for 3s packs both of which run at around 8 amps wot.
The 010 will blow the axi away with the right setup at 8 amps. Have to be careful though as it gets hot quick when run over 75 watts or so.
You don't need very much power for a shock flyer though so you can run the system at relatively low power and still have good power.

Bill

i3dm

My Feedback: (51)

im not sure what wind or turn 010 i have, as i got it second hand and the foremr owner cant tell (no manual).
how do i check ? it says "mighty micro" on it.

Bill Mixon

Look at the rear plate of the motor. On the older ones at least the wind was printed (painted)? on the rear. It will come off it's been cleaned with solvent though so You may not be able to see it. I think the most common are the 10 14 and 16 wind.

Bill

i3dm

My Feedback: (51)

Hey Bill.

1. the motor doesnt say anything on it, i have no idea.
2. what does "wind" mean anyway and whats the difference between the 10, 14 and 16 ?
3. how many amps are safe to draw in this motor ? on my prop tests ill be using an amper meter, but im not sure how many amps are safe.
4. does anyone have any idea on how to program the Astro speed control ??

thanks !

Bill Mixon

Wind means how many times the wire is wraped around the stator. The higher the # the weaker or slower turning the motor is. The 10T is a relatively hot motor compared to the 16T in other words. KV is lower on the 16T vs the KV of the 10T.
IIRC, 010's are ok to 7 amps, although I have seen as little as 4 amps max continuous rating. They are probably good up to 10 amps provided it doesn't stay there long.
I'm not sure on the control, does it have any #'s on it. I think there isn't really anything programable on some that they sold with the 010. The one that came with mine for example not only had no programable features it didn't even have throttle control. Moving the thro stick all the way up turned the motor on at full power. ON or OFF, no other options.

Another thing to look at is the dia of the shaft. Is it 1/8" or is it turned down to 2mm. If it's got an 1/8" shaft, pinion gears will be hard to find, and for some ratios not possible (maybe) due to the 1/8" hole.

i3dm

My Feedback: (51)

This is the controller:
http://www.astroflight.com/e/env/000...roducts:af-201

any info about it ?
thanks.

Bill Mixon

Take a look at the PDF on the astro flight site, it tells how to turn the brake on and off.

Bill

i3dm

My Feedback: (51)

Thanks Bill, so here goes:
i machined the outer case of the motor and now its a slip in fit into the GWS gearbox - awesome work.
about pinions:
the motor shaft is 3.2mm (or actually 3.19mm) and the pinions are 2mm, now, i have no problem doing a precision drill as one of my good friends has a CNC factory, the question is to what size should i drill it, and how to install it on the motor ??? the reason i need to drill pinions rather then machine the shaft is that the shaft is hardened, its impossible to machine.

also, the ONLY gear box i can get in stock around here (Israel) is D size (6.6) , can you tell me which props would work for that ??
thanks.