BrushlessKing

Wow Greg, I can't say enough how nicely you build. Keep up the great work on this build thread....

Greg Covey

Thanks, but it is an easy ARF to build. The ICON just looks great.

Here is my modified battery compartment. I supported the balsa stick about 1" forward with some balsa sheets and then cut out the original plywood brace with a Dremel tool.

My 3-cell ThunderPower pack moved an inch forward.

Bill Killillay

My Feedback: (18)

Greg,

Did moving the brace and batt pack foward fix the problem? Have you had a chance to fly it yet?

CC

Greg Covey

Bill,

We just flew it at lunchtime today and came to a consensus.

The Razor 400 motor is too light and does not have sufficient power for 3D maneuvers.

This is likely the reason that I was so tail-heavy, even after moving the pack forward. I am still about 15mm away from the manufacturer's recommendation.

The Razor 400 weighs about 1oz and the Razor 2500 about 2oz. An extra ounce in the nose along with more power is what this plane needs. I happen to have a Razor 2500 in my Fliton Flubber so I will likely try it soon.

I did make a video that i'll post soon. You can see the dolphin effect on the tail showing that it is not happy and the plane decending on knife edge.

Bill Killillay

My Feedback: (18)

Do you think that a Himax 2025-4200 would weigh enough and have enough 'kick' to do the job?

Bill Killillay

My Feedback: (18)

One more question... How 'much' prop can you swing on this plane? You have a 10" on there, could you do up to 11 or 12 if you wanted/needed to?

Thanks again...

Greg Covey

Bill,

Yes, the Himax 2025 is a 180 watt motor which should provide around 130w/lb.

An 11" prop may fit but that will be pushing it. I'll make a measurement to be sure.

Bill Killillay

My Feedback: (18)

Greg,

Anymore idea on the 11" Prop? Can larger wheels be used with the wheel pants to give a bit more room?

Thanks

Greg Covey

I upgraded my ICON 312 power system to a Lehner 1020/15 motor. The Lehner 1020 series is a 300 watt class "top of the line" motor available at [link=http://www.b-p-p.com/BrushlessMotors.htm#Motors]Bishop Power Products[/link]. It is similar to the Razor 2500 but can sustain more continuous current. Notice that it fits into the same GWS EPS-350C gearbox and therefore the same motor mount.

The new motor/ESC/gearbox and 11x4.7 prop combination weighs 4.6oz compared to the lighter 3.0oz Razor 400 setup using the 10x4.5 black Wattage prop. This extra 1.6oz allowed me to balance perfectly from 96-106mm depending upon the pack position.

The [link=http://www.b-p-p.com/Gearboxes.htm#cobri]Cobri Aluminum Gearbox[/link] is possibly the best spur/pinion GB ever made for our hobby and is one of the best upgrades you can do for serious 3D flying! The gearbox is precision CNC machined from T6061 Aluminum and fitted with a Stainless steel hardened shaft. The Cobri 20 fits Lehner 10xx/xx series, Hacker B20L & S series, Astro 010 & 020 series, Himax 2015 & 2025 series, Elight Park 370 & 400 series, Razor 300, 350, 400, 2500, Mamba & Nemesis brushless motors. The sturdy aluminum case will not warp under heavy 3D stress and strip the nylon gears like the GWS plastic gearbox.

My APC 11x4.7 SF prop still has 1.5" ground clearance when the fuselage is parallel to the ground. This will work fine.

Ian.W

lenhers are lovley motors, torcman are also very good if your looking for an outruner

wing1

How about a mega 16/15/4? Do you think that it will have too much power? And, if it does work, how would you set it up? I have been thinking about a jumping jack, but this plane looks very nice. Any thoughts on handling?

Greg Covey

The Mega 16/15/x series is in the right power range. Your 16/15/4 would have to be geared, of course.

I don't have a Fliton JJ so I can't make a comparison. The ICON does appear to slow down much better than the Flubber, which is nice because it comes in a little heavy now at 21.6oz.

I need more stick time to evaluate the handling. My only flight with the corrected CG has been in windy conditions.

Here are some flying shots taken with the Razor 400 power system.

Hammbone

My Feedback: (309)

Hey Greg,
Looking forward to your flight reports with the lehner.
I just made the call this morning and ordered an Icon 312 for myself. I ordered a Himax 2025-5300 with integrated gearbox and mount to go with it. I hope that will be a good motor for it, power wise and balance wise.

Thanks for starting this thread. I was considering the purchase of a Flubber, but this seems to be an improved design so I bought it instead. I'm looking forward to getting mine and getting it in the air.

Jim

Bill Killillay

My Feedback: (18)

Jim,

I'm hoping to use the same power system. My Icon is on order, should be in later this week according to Cliff. I've got the 2025-5300 coming for it with the integrated GB as well. According to some numbers that I found on Cliff's website, we should be able to get 38+ oz of thrust with a 10x7 prop. I have a 10x7 E, but I don't have anything in the 10x7SF range. Everything is either 11x7 or 10x8, etc. I'm going to play with several props though. Either way, 38+ at even 22oz on the plan is close to 2:1, I think that will 3D nicely...

Greg,

Any idea's on how the 2025 in the blue GB compares weight wise with the Lehner motor in the GB? Also will the E series APC props be to heavy or do you think that the 10x7 might be a good match for that 2025?

Thanks,
BK

Greg Covey

I think they are similar class motors so the weight will be close. The Lehner has a big advantage in quality but either setup will be great for 3D.

I would recommend a lower pitch prop like the 11x4.7 SF prop instead of a 10x7 prop. The current draw is similar but the reduced pitch speed and increased thrust is better for 3D.

Hammbone

My Feedback: (309)

Hey Bill,
I'm glad to hear we'll be using the same power set-up. I'm fairly new to electrics and now I'll have someone to help with questions that may come up while I'm assembling this plane.

I also ordered mine from Cliff. Mine is supposed to arrive on Thursday or Friday.

I used to live in the city next to you in Lilburn, GA. I moved to Colorado last year.
Do I know you? What is your last name? My name is Jim Hamm.


Greg,
No flights yet with the Lehner? I was considering getting one for my Icon 312, but they were out of stock.

Jim

Bill Killillay

My Feedback: (18)

Jim,

Last name is Killillay. I grew up in Colorado, small world...

I only fly electics so I'll be happy to help in any way that I can. My plane is coming from the second shipment that Cliff has coming in. I'll probably drive up and get it Thursday afternoon or Friday morning if it gets here in time. I would like to have it before this weekend so that I can put it together this Saturday if time allows...

BK

Hammbone

My Feedback: (309)

I must have bought the last one that Cliff had in stock then. I think we ordered them the same day. I must have just beat you by a few hours. I just tracked mine online and it is scheduled for delivery on Friday, so maybe we will both be building them on Saturday if we have the time.

Thanks for the offer of help if I need it.


Jim

zorka

My Feedback: (4)

Hi Greg,

Great review. What you think a Himax 2025-4200 with GB mount do on this bird with a Kokam 1500Hc 3 cel 11.1v battery?

Thx

Greg Covey

Any power system around 200 watts should work fine on the ICON. For great 3D performance, it is best to have a power system that is not stressed during knife-edge or hovering maneuvers.

I hope to fly the ICON today for some video if the wind permits.

zorka

My Feedback: (4)

Thanks Greg,

Not sure though if your reply implies is OK for 3D Himax 2025-4200 or should go to higher watt motor? Can you clarify?

Would love to see the movies or pictures you will make available.

Thx again

Greg Covey

Unfortunitly, it was too windy to fly at lunchtime today. I'll try again on Friday and hopefully have something for next week.

I can't make up your mind for you. It is a personal choice for cost/performance trade-off.

The Himax 2025 is a 180 watt class motor so it should do fine.

Greg Covey

We had some excellent weather on Friday and I got some video of my ICON. We were on a private grass flying field so I had to hand launch it first time on video with the new power system. I got caught off-guard as the plane had so much power that it ripped out of my hand before I could toss it. I managed to save it as it veered one way and then the other and finally when up. In hindsight, I should have only used half throttle. It's rather humerous to watch and things like this keep me humble.

I'll post the video soon.

The ICON flies great! My only issue with it has been the custom gear mains material. The plastic is too weak at the angle near the fuselage.

Bill Killillay

My Feedback: (18)

Gred,

Your line about the LG being to weak, another guy on another board's had his break there today. Can you give an example of what you mean and some ideas on how to make it stronger. I'm still waiting on mine to come. Looks like it will be Monday or later before it gets to the ATL area and the who knows when I can go get it. Either way I would like some ideas if you have any on how to make that area stronger. To me that is one of the most appealing parts of the plane, would be a shame if it's also the most troublesome...

Hammbone

My Feedback: (309)

I received my Icon 312 yesterday. I haven't had time to start assembling it yet (maybe I'll get some time tomorrow), but I did have time to inspect it and it sure is a good looking plane!

Are the folks having problems with the landing gear landing in grass? Maybe the grass is catching the gear and pulling it backwards??
I will be landing on artificial turf so maybe I'll be O.K.?????


Jim