mayday

Ok, I have an e-flite mini edge 540. I am just learning 3d. I can't seem to get this to hover. I just want to know, is this simply a difficult maneuver that takes practice, or do I have something horribly wrong with my setup.

I completely respect that some maneuvers are just hard, and take practice. I'm all for that. But it LOOKS so easy. I would love someone to confirm that this is just more difficult than it looks, and I'll just keep trying.

I know that a CG further back helps, and i probably do have mine a bit forward for 3d. Trying to maintain some balance between 3d ability, and my ability to land it in one piece.

Thanks,

Mayday

sb13

My Feedback: (52)

Hovering takes practice. You almost need to predict what the plane is going to do before it does it and correct for it. I'm not sure how else to explain it. I'm still learning myself but I have noticed that it takes less movements than what I was doing at first. What I mean is it's very easy to over correct. Again, it takes practice so keep it up and you will get it.

cje0114

My Feedback: (27)

Hovering is hard to do, but get's easier after you get the hang of it. If you have expo on your tx, use it. It makes life alot easier.

Chris

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

Once you can do it it's easy, that's why it looks that way. If the mini-Edge flies like the mini-Funtana forget about learning much 3D with it anyways. If by "hovering" you are talking about torque rolls here's what I suggest.

First get AFP Deluxe or G3 and practice every day. It took me three months about ten or fifteen minutes a day just to hover although I'd break it up with rolling circles. For me personally I can only stand the sim for that amount of time.

Once you get it down on the sim get a flat foamy electric and transfer your skills to that, from there you'll be able to hover anything that is set up properly as long as you aren't worried about crashing.

A rearward CG is not the key to a good hovering set-up, maybe helps with harriers but hovering. Large fast tail surfaces, 2:1 power to weight ratio, a reasonably long tail moment, lateral balance and proper thrust incidence are all more important than the CG (which should need the slightest stick pressure possible when inverted to maintain level flight).

All the other tips on how to fly it that you'll read about are a big waste of time IMO. You just have to practice with a plane down low where you can see it so you can learn to react before it is too late to recover. The only easy way to do that is a lot of sim practice and flat foamies.

Save the Mini-Edge for Aerobatics.

bdavison

My Feedback: (1)

Hovering is one of the hardest maneuvers to learn. There are a few things that will help.

1. Ensure that you have enough throws on the control surfaces. Most foamies require 45-60 degrees of throw. LOTS of aileron to counteract torque. If you have a programmable radio, USE EXPO. Expo should be set between -40 to -60% depending on your flying preferences.

2. Hovering is much easier to do at lower altitudes, where you can see what the plane is doing. To begin you should be attempting a hover at least one LOOP high. In other words, you need to be able to pull it up into a hover, and if you yank back full elevator be able to do a half loop and not hit the ground.

3. Remember, since you are at least one loop high, if the plane falls backward on its back, full up elevator into half loop and exit level flight.

4. Learn to use your rudder. You MUST use rudder to hover. Practice using the rudder instead of ailerons to turn the plane around. Practice doing flat turns where you push rudder, and hold a little aileron to counteract the roll.

5. Practice harriers. Harriers are a great way to learn some basic hovering skills. Fly around at a high angle of attack, and keep increasing it until you can hold it vertical in a hover.

6. Rearward CG. This has been debated for a long time. Of the probably 5-6 pilots here that regularly fly 3D maneuvers, including Tony Stillman and Steve Rojecki (both known for their flying skills), ALL of us have changed the CG on most of our planes to make them fly better. We all agree that on most kitted widely available planes, the manufacturers recommended CG point is extremely conservative, and placed far too forward for effective 3D flight, and in some cases(like the Tensor4D) are so far forward that it causes the plane to nose in if the power is pulled off for a landing.

If the CG is too far forward the plane will not hover, and too far back and it will just fall out of the sky. Most planes will hover MUCH better if the CG is moved aft of the recommended spot. Start by moving the CG back 1/4" from the manufacturer recommended CG. Then go pull it up in a hover. You will evenually find a "sweet spot" at which the plane becomes neutral and will remain in a hover with very little control input.

You will also find that this aft CG position will allow the plane to perform other maneuvers better, and take better advantage of elevator and rudder. Maneuvers become tighter and snappier.

wessman

Some planes hover better than others (I tried my friend´s plane to hover and it was kid´s game compared to my plane). POWER is needed to make it easy. Control surfaces must move a lot. I use no EXPO - makes me faster and I feel fine with it (before I used 70% Expo - now it´s 0%). I shortened (screwed in) my radio sticks to minimum so I can get faster the wanted inputs - works for me (not for shaking fingers ;-) )...........Ele and ruder servos better be FAST (use 6V too) making the life easier.

rmenke

My Feedback: (13)

Hay Guy!

You are getting some great advise here, bassically practice practice practice. Get a good foamy, they will teach you how to--very quickly if you get a good one. You also want a durable foamy. The shocks are not the best way to go. Do use 40-60% expo to start or as recommended by the maker. Some planes are just easier to hover from basic design, this is what you want. The best I have found to date is the Illusion and Extra 330L from rcxplanes.com. I recommend them highly because of my so-so flying ability and the ease of doing 3D with these birds. Guys at the club think I have improved so much in the past few weeks. Reality is the rcx planes just make me look good as they fly so well, you learn confidence quickly even flyhing a few feet off the ground. Unless you are a Hill or Hyde, you will panic into the ground sooner or later. My original rcx planes are still in good shape and in the air after some rough whacks and landings in high wind. Another nice point is that they are money back guaranteed. Don't find that much these days. Odds are the owner will never have to take one back due to their quality and user friendly character. Check out the package prices, you get a plane, motor and controller (hacker) for about the same price as motor and controller elsewhere. Dealer support from Bud Wilkinson is outstanding! I am a extreemly satisfied customer and do let people know about them when I can as I am doing YOU A FAVOR HERE. ENJOY!

jmir

My Feedback: (1)

I just received my Real Flight R/C Flight Simulator G3.

It looks like is going to be a while before I master hovering!!!
The one good thing about it, the simulator is doing exactly what I'm experiencing with my plane. Hopefully, this means that if I can hover with the simulator, I would then be able to do likewise with the real stuff!!

Somebody wish me good luck..... I need it!!

mayday

Thanks for the great info!!! It helps a lot to know it's not supposed to be easy.

sb13

My Feedback: (52)

I use the Yak on the G-3 sim to hover with. There is a cap that does a better job though. Good luck!

rbushman3

Not sure about g3 or apfd, but reflex xtr sim has a "time expansion factor" setting that allows the simulator to "slow down." Basically, normal setting is 1. If you put it on 2, it gives you twice as much time to react to the planes movement. 3 gives you three times as long to react than normal flight and anything after that is rediculously slow. I tried to hover for months before learning about this setting. After someone showed me the setting, i could hover pretty decent in normal speed in a couple of days.

Also, concentrate on the aileron control, or keeping the plane from spinning (hold a just a little right aileron). A lot easier to read the plane once you get that down.

At first it seems almost impossible to learn. But after you learn it, it's kinda like riding a bike, it just comes natural without thinking about it.

bdavison

My Feedback: (1)

Yup, AFPD has that too.

I can hover no problem now, but I cant tell you how many times I nose planted one learning how to do it.
You dont normally see videos online of people learning these maneuvers and busting up planes. Normally the videos are of people that already know how to do it and are just showing off the skilz.
Unfortunatly, this puts the mis-conception in peoples heads that its "easy" to do.

This being said, its like riding a bicycle. Once you learn how it becomes second nature. Sure every once in a while you still "wipeout" though.


Keep working on it. You'll get it. Then you can make your own video to "show how its done".

Wes The Mess

My Feedback: (1)

with no previous flying experience, i learned how to hover in about 2 days--i have g3 and i spent maybe 3 or 4 hours one day putting the plane nose up and just using elevator (let the plane yaw over into the ground)--the next day i did the same thing but with rudder so the plane pitched into the ground--by about the 4th hour on the second day i could hover for a good 10 or 15 seconds with the e3d (not the best plane to learn on)--back to the point, i figured by taking each input seperately i wouldnt get overwhelmed and voila--it did take about 2 more weeks (maybe 12 hours more sim time) to get a consistent hover


p.s. i learned this from playing drums for the last 8 years

mayday

Dag Nabbit! Ok, I'm officially putting hovering into the hard category, regardless of what I see here :-)

Whilst practicing my hovering, I crashed my beloved Mini Edge. What's really sad, is that I crashed it coming in to land. I guess I just got too slow on approach. It tip-stalled and cartwheeled down the end of the landing area. Doh!

Yes, the smell of epoxy will be floating about our home tonight.

Mayday
www.eusticeandbear.com

Vic3D

My Feedback: (19)

Hovering is stupid easy after you get it down. Requires some practice though. Good luck!

Nickolas

Since we are in the 3D Electric Flying Forum, I would like to share my experience with my Fliton Jumping Jack.

In general I believe that aft CG makes hovering and harrier easier and this was the case with JJ, since I placed 5 gr fo weight at the tail and moved my LiPo pack a bit backwards, the plane has been transformed into a hovering animal. Before that hovering was more difficult, the plane was dropping the nose a lot requiring too much elevator input.

It matters also for the electric planes where you place your LiPo pack with respect to the fuselage central horizontal axis, it helps the pack to be above the main wing spar in most cases, I think that modification also helped a lot with my JJ.

I believe that to properly harrier (upright and inverted) a plane is more difficult than hover it. Hovering in my opinion is not 3D. Harrier on the other hand is 3D due to its high α nature where hovering is NO α.

Here are some photos of my Fliton JJ, one of the best planes I've ever flown. [8D]

Rgrds,

Nick

Ernie Misner

Go to Horizon's website and visit Torque Rolling 101. Question: they say it is similar do doing a very slow rolling harrier, where you think in terms of up, right rudder, down, left rudder, etc., as the plane torque rolls.

Do you guys see the similarity???

Thanks!

Ernie

Flypaper 2

You say you pranged your plane on landing. Once you can learn to hover even a bit, put it up to hover then throttle back just enough to lose altitude slowly and it will sink to the ground with very little forward speed. As soon as the tail touches, throttle all the way back.

air mail rcu

Hovering was very hard to learn. But once you get it it's easy. Just like anything in this world. How do I get to Carnegie Hall.....Practice...practice...practice.

Best plane in my opinion is the SX2 or SX3 it's just like the sim. Put it in the ground pick it up and try again. Takes all the fear out of 3D. If not for this plane I don't think I would have learned 3D. My first SX3 has more ground hits then I or you can imagine and it still flys great (est. 500 hits). Also the best flying plane for pattern or 3D. because it has a built up wing. I built all my SX's from plans they are about 10 ozs with a AXI 2208 and a apogee 830 3cell.

bdavison

My Feedback: (1)

You know the more I think about it, hovering...well it just kinda snaps.

Its like a lightbulb comes on, and you just "get" it.

Here's some more tips. Most people either have trouble with the plane flopping over on its back, or they have trouble with rudder. Watch the prop, and think of it like a helicopter. Keep the top facing you with the ailerons. Now use the elevator to push it away from you, or pull it towards you. Use the rudder to make it go right or left.

When you first start its easy to overcorrect. Take a deep breath, and pressure the sticks, dont bang them around.

If you think hovering is hard...wait till you try learning hovering torque rolls....hehehehehe...

air mail rcu

Or rolling circles. Darn things are driving me nuts.[sm=bananahead.gif]

bdavison

My Feedback: (1)

You need a mini-reflection. Check out the Yosemite Sam thread, and download the plans and build one.

NO JOKE. If you watch the video, you'll see Bill Altman doing a rolling circle in the gym about a ft off the deck. Its a piece of cake with the mini reflection. Just point the nose up a little. Set your throttle to hold it there, and shove full aileron in it. Then sit back and relax as the thing does rolling circles all by itself. No elevator or rudder input needed. Makes rolling circles easy.

Come to think of it...it makes hovering a little easy too.

air mail rcu

bdavision, Thanks for the info. And if I can't figure it out with my plane then I'll be ordering a mini reflection. After I get the circles down I want to do rolling loops. What plane does them without any inputs?

bdavison

My Feedback: (1)

I dont know, but if ya find one, let me know

DMACK

My Feedback: (9)

The Mini Edge is a fairly tough plane to learn to hover with. The only advice I can give to make it easier would be:

1. With moderate throttle pull it up to vertical and slowly decrease the throttle until it stops going up. Make sure it is at least three mistakes high. Then work on keeping it in a hover. Keep doing it until you can hover it for 30 seconds - it will take a while. Then start bringing it down lower.

2. The ME pops into a hover easier than it will slow transition into one. Bring it along the flight like until it is almost in front of you, then quickly turn it so it is flying away, then with a quick pop of the elevator bring it up into a hover. Ailerons and elevator should have high rates with a lot of expo. Rudder should have full rates with little or no expo. Be quick to correct it if it starts to fall off to one side or the other, when it does go, get the wings level to the ground ASAP and fly it out.

That should give you a fighting chance. Check your cg, I have found 60mm to be the sweet spot for this plane. Check you lateral balance as well.

As for landing, when you coming in give it 1 click of down trim as you start your approach and keep the prop turning. Just a touch of throttle until it touches down, and you'll have no trouble.