On The EDGE

Im taking the liberty of asking this question for my friends at BalsaBusters.com and rcforum.net.

This question was braught about by me (who always wants the most bang for my buck) at my club's last indoor fun-fly when a few guys from a neighboring club braught their Shockies over.

We were on the virge of astonishment at how well such a small plane could fly! We all fly FFF, Flatouts, or Phase3 profiles, but none are as light and stiff as these were!

They were flying the Extra 330S, Super Star, and Yak-54 and said they were using the recomended AXI's and 2cell 350-400mAh lipoes and HS-50s (or the like) which let them fly an AUW of about 8oz.! (my Mad 3D Taco is about 18oz. and out club president's Flatout Edge 540 is about 12oz. AUW)
Now granted, these guys fly them about every day and are very good 3D pilots, but you couldnt fly a crappy plane like they did with outside loops within a fuselage lingth, extended KE opps. and high alpha rolling figure 8s!

None of our planes can do these things, nor float around at walking pace without being in high alpha, so we desided we each had to get one and try them out so we could try and keep up with our guests.

So, I ask you, which is the best Hobby-Lobby profile Shockie for indoor 3D?

Please vote then post what points make it your favorite.
And any pictures or videos you have to prove this are very welcome

Below are links to all the Shockie type 3D's:

Extra 330S: http://www.hobby-lobby.com/shockflyer-extra.htm
Edge 540: http://www.hobby-lobby.com/shockflyer-edge.htm
Super Start: http://www.hobby-lobby.com/shockflyer-super.htm
Yak-55: http://www.hobby-lobby.com/yak55.htm
Yak-54: http://www.hobby-lobby.com/shockflyer-yak.htm
F3A: http://www.hobby-lobby.com/shockflyer-f3a.htm
Pitts Special: http://www.hobby-lobby.com/shockflyer-pitts.htm
Animal 3D: http://www.hobby-lobby.com/animal.htm
Hot Rod Mini: http://www.hobby-lobby.com/hotrodmini.htm
Judge Edge 540: http://www.hobby-lobby.com/judge.htm
Rebel 3D: http://www.hobby-lobby.com/rebel.htm

Thanks from me and the guys at the club!
-Edge

On The EDGE

I vote for the F3A because which of the rest can give you both 3D and pattern flying, all at an indoor pace with such great looks?

Watching the video on its web page shows exactly what I want to do the next time these guys show up at the gym. [>:]

But I do like the $20 Yak-55

Bevo

I really liked the way the super star handled in doors. 3d was great and the plane tracked better then the edge and the extra did. It's a great design.


Bevo

hroachen

Of the original 3 Ikarus Shockflyers, I liked the Superstar best. But I think I like the Yak54 from Ikarus better. It's bigger, but not significantly heavier (maybe my building is getting better) and seems to just feel lighter on the sticks.

Have a look at foamyfactorys new line of minis... I've been hearing good things about them. I've got a Mini-3DX to build, just need to get some time set aside.

bdavison

My Feedback: (1)

I agree with all the above....the Superstar is by far the best one Ive flown. The other Ikarus planes fly well, but the superstar stands out for small areas indoor. Its just a REALLY fun plane.

Also you can get them even lighter than 8oz....My superstar is 4.5oz. If you think the 8oz ones will float...wait till you see what a 4.5oz one will do.

Here's my setup.
Axi 2204/54
Balsapr.com 10A esc
Bluebird BMS-303's on elevator and rudder
Bluebird BMS-306 on ailerons
Bluebird 4ch rx with case removed.
TP 2cell 730mah lipo.

It will fly just about 20min or so on that battery, and floats like a feather. You can walk faster than it flys.

exeter_acres

My Feedback: (2)

yep...8oz for a shocky is heavy....

Devin McGrath

8 oz is really heavey for a shockflyer. My lightes ever came in at 4.8 oz that thing floated !!!

I would go with the F3A shocky if you are not looking for an insaine roll rate and you want to fly some pattern as well. but if all you want in sick 3D then go with the Nikitis Animal. I find that the old shockys ( Extra , Superstar, Edge) all fly just about the same the SS flys a little better. If you want a very agile plane gowith one of the older ones because they are slightly smaller and come out lighter (they are more responsive on the same set ups) really its hard to go wrong wih these type airplanes they fly so muchg better than the Flat outs. the flat outs use really heavey foam and reccomend really heavey set ups.

heres what I run in my shockys

AXI 2204/54
CC 10 amp
Kokam 2 / 3 cell 340's
Futaba 3110 servos ( you can get away with less powerfull servos)
FMA M5 V2 reciever

Hope this helps. There is allot of information about these shockys around the forums. I also have allot of modifications for shockys i can post up here for you if you would like.

On The EDGE

Post all the mods you want and pics would help.

I want tight (1/2 court without having to stay in high alpha ALL the time) 3D, but I also want a slower pattern flyer because I like KE and precition manuvers like on the video. But I still want it to snap into hovers, have athority in them, and do walls and water falls well. Can the F3A deliver the above?

I like the sound of the ~4.5oz. Super Star, but its kinda ugly in my oppinion... [:-]

On The EDGE

Would HS-55 servos be light enough for the 4.5oz. wing loading or would I need HS-50's?

3Dn It

My Feedback: (25)

I vote for the f3A for smooth pattern style flying, the SS for a good all around plane and the Animal for all out 3D.

Like everyone is telling you, the most important thing is to keep them extreamly light!!

Two people can have the exact same plane and one will fly different than the other over the mater of a few oz.

lr55lr60

hey guys just wondering between getting one of the two ikarus's. its between the yak-54 and the super star. i like the looks beter of the yak but looks arnt everything. on ikarus's website the new shockies are the same weight length and wing span as the originals. which one is going to to the most 3D acrobatics the easiest and which one will actually weigh less. thanks for the input. Happy flyn

On The EDGE

Well I still want snappy 3D, will te F3A do some?
Looks like it in the video, but it doesnt hover much so I cant tell if it holds a hover well or not with its long tail moment without having extreme elevator throws!

I tryed a pattern/3D style plane when I cut my old Formosa in 1/2 and traced it on some FFF.

I added about an inch to the aileron chord (which it didnt need because I could torque roll it lightening fast to the right!) and 1 1/2" to the elevator chord at the TE and extended the elevator in some as well on the horizontal stabe. The tail moment was as long as the origional Formosa and even with the CG at 50% back and 70%+ of elevator throw, I just couldnt get it to hold a hover at all, dispite full up elevator and a lot of throttle bursts, so im a little weary of trying another pattern flyer with 3D.

Has anyone had this problem with their F3A, or can anyone offera video with some hovering action of their F3A?

Thanks!
-Edge

Devin McGrath

The F3A hovers great it locks right in because of the long tail moment.

The origonal shockflyers are lighter than the new ones. also the new ones fly better stock because they did add some suppots to the planes in different places.

I will post some pictures of mine tomarow

You won't regret getting a shockflyer

exeter_acres

My Feedback: (2)

too heavy...look at GWS picos

half the weight

bdavison

My Feedback: (1)

You will need some EXTREMELY lightweight servos, to get the 4.5oz...every little thing on the plane matters...even how much glue you use and what kind.

BlueBird BMS-303's are 4.1g and have 10oz/in of torque. You have to be gentle with them, as they will strip if you bang on them. But they are SUPER lightweight. Dont use them on ailerons...they dont have enough torque, you will need a S75 or BMS-306 on the ailerons.


GWS Pico servo's are 6.1g and have 10oz/in of torque.



HS-55's are 7.9g ...so you can see where every little bit makes a difference.

BlueArrow (not to be confused with Bluebird) makes some even lighter 3.6g servos, but they dont center very well.


Cirrus also makes a fantastic little servo, thats 4.1g, and they center pretty well.

bdavison

My Feedback: (1)

With the superstar...everything you dont need....LEAVE IT OFF.

When you get the kit. Reach inside, throw the balsa triangle stock in your balsa bin...you wont need it. Chunk the tape.. Look for the carbon stuff...There are two flat pieces that are designed to go down the leading and trailing edge of the wing. You only need one of them...lose the other one.

When you build the kit. Use foamsafe CA, and use as little as possible. Basically just use enough to hold it together. Instead of running a bead of CA down each piece...just use a small drop every inch or so. When you get to the wing. Follow the instructions and use the UHU glue to attach the carbon strip to the leading edge. DONT tape it...you dont need the tape. Use just a thin layer of the UHU...dont goop it on there. Less is more. Remember we are building it ULTRA lightweight.

Get some Dubro Hinge Tape (aka 3M Blenderm) instead of running a piece of tape all the way down both sides of the ailerons. just use 5 1"x1" squares on the top of the wing, space them 1" apart. Flip the wing over, and use 1"x1" squares of tape and put them inbetween the original pieces on the top. So effectively, you have the entire hinge taped, but technically youve only used enough tape to cover one side. Do the same for the elevator and Rudder.

Now...remember those balsa sticks. Well they were designed to keep the tail from twisting...but they are too heavy....so we have to use a different method.

Remember the left over depron that you popped the pieces out of... Cut two strips of depron from the extra, that are 1/2" wide and as long as the fuselage.
Bevel the edges at 45 degrees, and use them to create a gusset on the underside of the fuselage..this effectively boxes in the fuselage, and will eliminate the tail twist issue....plus its lightweight.

The avionics like RX, servos, and ESC...strip them down, Anything that you dont need...get rid of it. Pull the case off the RX, cut the wires down and re-solder the connectors so that you've eliminated any excess wire. Try to use very little solder. Solder is LEAD..LEAD is heavy.
If your experienced with laquer coated wires like found on those micro actuators in the tiny kits...replace all the servo wires with them. (I find this to be too much work...so I just use the stock wires)

Replace all the heavy plugs on the ESC and lipo with Deans connectors...like these


The motor...hopefully your using a Axi 2204/54, because this is the BEST motor for a shocky.
Make a motor mount out of 1/16 hobby plywood, or carbon fiber(better) and shape it in a circle just large enough to screw the motor too.
Screw the Axi to the motor mount, and then CA the motor mount to the front of the plane. If you want to, you can cut a recess in the nose for it, so it flush mounts. This is actually a good option...because after all...anything you cut off just removes more weight.

Use a o-ring on the prop saver on the AXI to hold the prop on. I like the GWS directdrive 8x4 props, but you can use whatever prop you like.

This is how I got a 4.5oz shocky

On The EDGE

Wow!

I dont trust your methods
No offence, I realize thats what it takes, but How an I suppoed to trust a plane to stay togather with CAing like that? I'll be throwing it aroudn quite hard with tight loops and span rolls and I daught it would hold togather.

But I will do the rest like the hinges and such. But I will use a little more CA with 1" long beads every inch or two. I trust that much better. I am very willing to sacrifice weight for a little more staughtness and crash resistacne.
After all, with the F3A (or the bigger Shockies in general) I have a little more wing area to play with and I wouldnt mind going maybe an oz. over that (i'd be quite happy at 6oz. because my lightest 3D plane was about 14oz. so thats almost half!
And we also try some crazy stuff like wall climbing and flat spins around the goals and such so i'd hate for one hit or one bad landing to total my plane! Plus, it would onyl stay that weight for a couple weeks before the inevetable happonds and I have to add some CA or tape to keep it flyable [&:]

As for servos, the shop has some GWS Picos so rather than having them order more that are a lot more fragile and lible to strip with a simple tail touch, i'd rather have a gram or two per servo and be able to keep the servos longer than the plane.
I think the guys that flew theirs were flying the little blue Cirrus servos (they said they were discontinued, but I remember them being in stock that last time I was browsing Global.

I'd like to have a sub 5oz. plane, but 6 or maybe 7oz. is worth it to me in terms of fatigue and crash worthiness.

Thanks for the many tips guys!
The last few posts accualy taught me a lot!

-Edge

rightflyer

Anyone flying Pitts shockflyer?

On The EDGE

I would have included the Pitts in the poll but RCU limited me to 10 options.

Im glad you brung that up becasue it seems like it does VERY well!

rightflyer

TThat's the problem, too many planes and only so much time!(or $$)

bdavison

My Feedback: (1)

You have to understand that at 4.5 oz, the wingloading is EXTREMELY light. The lighter you build these planes the better they survive a crash because theres no mass to crumple the plane. Its hard for most pilots to think about how it actually flys this light. Most pilots are used to a larger heavier plane with lots of mass that needs solid construction to keep it together. These shockies just dont need all that. Its like flying a feather with a motor. Totally different kind of flying. Shockies fly more on thrust vectoring than your standard aerodynamics. The control surfaces are deflecting thrust in a direction to produce movement rather than the traditional "flying" of the airplane.

Hard to explain...just gotta try it.

On The EDGE

How about I get that $20 YAK-55 and try that

Better to risk it on a cheaper plane than a more expencive one.

This will give me the experiance I need and give me one light flyer under my belt so I knwo what to watch out for on the real project and also let me have soem experiance on a plane i've never tryed before!

I just hope Bill (out LHS owner) didnt order the yellow and pink one

I knew that, but didnt think of it, lol.
My Pico stick only weighs about 6oz with standard cells and it just flops on the ground with little more than a wing poping out if it was a hard 'crash'

Thanks!