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3D Newbie Questions + Progress report

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Old 04-07-2011, 06:36 AM
  #1
ronin11b
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Default 3D Newbie Questions + Progress report

This 3D flying thing is challenging and fun, and I'm getting a kick out of re-learning how to fly in a whole new way. That being said, here is my progress report.

With my Electrifly Reactor Bipe, I have logged about 12 flights in my attempts to learn 3D. I have sucessfully figured out the Blender, Inverted Flat Spin, and a VERY shaky Harrier. My current goal is to steer the harrier better and reduce my wing rock. I'm using an old school Hitec Focus 4 (NO mixing! lol) and a lot of experimentation.

Question One- I was playing with RealFlight 5.5 and the Addiction X and I noticed there was a little Elevon mix with it, and it was VERY EASY to 3D. Does a very slight elevon mix, coinciding with the elevator, aid with 3d flight?

Question 2- Exponential- How will this aid my 3d flight ability?

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Old 04-07-2011, 10:34 AM
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Default RE: 3D Newbie Questions + Progress report

I'll be direct and honest but you may perceive it as blunt or crass. It is not intended to offend.

You will save yourself a HUGE amount of time by getting a good 3D airframe.
The secrets to learning 3D are easy.

1. Pick the correct airframe to learn on. This is huge.
If it needs to be relatively small, then Mojo, Tufflight Bouncer or TuffYak, ValueHobby Sabre, or LamYak.
2. Pick the right gear for it. Also huge.
3. Burn fuel. Lots of fuel.
4. Learn the harrier, bot upright and inverted. This is the basis for almost all 3D.
5. Watch these guys fly: [link=http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=McDDD&aq=f]McDDD[/link], [link=http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ProBro+Andy&aq=f]ProBro Andy[/link], [link=http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=HoverLow+Pro+Bro&aq=f]HoverLow[/link].
You can learn a lot from their style. Also look at WHAT they are flying.
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Old 04-07-2011, 11:35 AM
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Default RE: 3D Newbie Questions + Progress report


Quote:
1. Pick the correct airframe to learn on. This is huge.
Welp, this is the airframe I've got until I can afford a new one... which is a while, so.... next?

Quote:
2. Pick the right gear for it. Also huge.
This is related to one of my questions- how important is expo when flying 3d? And does elevon mixing on the ailerons improve a plane's ability to 3d? Both of these questions are directly lined to my need/desire to upgrade my radio system...

Quote:
3. Burn fuel. Lots of fuel.
I intend to

Quote:
4. Learn the harrier, bot upright and inverted. This is the basis for almost all 3D.
In progress. My harrier is currently very wing rockish and I'm not so good at steering it, but it's coming together. Inverted harrier hasn't been attempted yet, but is next on the list.

Quote:
5. Watch these guys fly: [link=http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=McDDD&aq=f]McDDD[/link], [link=http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ProBro+Andy&aq=f]ProBro Andy[/link], [link=http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=HoverLow+Pro+Bro&aq=f]HoverLow[/link].
You can learn a lot from their style. Also look at WHAT they are flying.
Noted.



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Old 04-07-2011, 03:28 PM
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Default RE: 3D Newbie Questions + Progress report

A little elevon mix will help with wing rock on most planes. The CG can also effect wing rock, so try easing it back a little and see if that helps. Most planes will also have less wing rock inverted.
Expo is not a must but will make it easier to control a 3D type plane. If you have a plane where 30% of the wing is aile and you have 45 degrees of throw. Expo will be your friend. Especially if you are a thumb flyer like me. Pinch flyers for the most part can get away with a little less expo.
You got some good advice above. The right airframe is more important than the right radio. It's close but the best radio won't make a plane 3D if it's capable. Blenders and flat spins are great but are not really 3D. 3d is flying on the prop, or as QuiQue says, "flying beyond the stall". If you want to stay electric look at the Carbon Z from Horizon. It will speed up your learning curve. If you go glow a good profile is hard to beat.

David
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Old 04-07-2011, 05:01 PM
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ronin11b
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Default RE: 3D Newbie Questions + Progress report

Well the plane is certainly 3Dable. I just watched someone do it. So the problem lies with my technique. Although they did confirm that expo would be VERY helpful as far as my particular plane is concerned. I've been looking for an excuse to jump to 2.4 anyways
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:54 AM
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Default RE: 3D Newbie Questions + Progress report

Good luck, and let us know how it goes. Please don't think I am talking down to you, but do you understand what expo does?

David
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:36 AM
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Default RE: 3D Newbie Questions + Progress report

Sure I understand what expo does. I've done some experimenting with elevator to flaperon mixing and elevator to spoileron mixing and I've had some nice results. My harriers are getting better
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:19 AM
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Default RE: 3D Newbie Questions + Progress report

Keep practicing on RealFlight until the manuevers become second nature. When you try it at the field it will keep your brain from getting in the way of good flying.
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Old 04-20-2011, 02:33 PM
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Default RE: 3D Newbie Questions + Progress report

all above said is good and ture


but also the majority of fly'ers at least for me Can't do it succseful . just fucs on haveing fun whatever is your doing, trying to master 3D is what your like then have at it but dont get cought up in the rat race . it's exepsive dirty road


for instance my local club only a hand full of pepole can complet a rolling cricle


but for any plane to counter wing rock you increase the AOA
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Old 04-20-2011, 04:32 PM
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Default RE: 3D Newbie Questions + Progress report

Q1 I have never used elevon so I don't know. Spoilerons help somewhat - I do not care for them. I am not sure what causes wing rock. I have read high wing loading - but I doubt your bipe is heavyily wing loaded. My experience is that wing rock tends to settle out with your nose pointed a little higher. It may help to be tail heavy too. My planes are always as tail heavy as I can stand it. My GP Ultimate Bipe really harriers well. My OMP profile Edge does not harrier as well but - it is a really fun and crazy plane.

Q2 Expo helps a lot on the rudder - use a lot on the rudder. It also helps on the elevator and less so on the ailerons for 3D.

I think the Reactor Bipe should make a great 3D plane, I almost bought one myself.

I have found 3D stuff really challenging. It requires a lot of stick time.
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:59 PM
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Default RE: 3D Newbie Questions + Progress report

On some planes, a small dorsal fin added to the area just in front of the vertical stab will stop wing rock. Start out with one around 1/4 the height of the combined rudder/vertical stab and extending forward roughly 3 times the height. Also, most planes have a CG "sweet spot" where they wing rock the least so moving the CG to find that spot is time consuming but the results can be worth it.
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Old 04-23-2011, 01:52 PM
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Default RE: 3D Newbie Questions + Progress report

Quote:
ORIGINAL: ThumbSkull

I'll be direct and honest but you may perceive it as blunt or crass. It is not intended to offend.

You will save yourself a HUGE amount of time by getting a good 3D airframe.
The secrets to learning 3D are easy.

1. Pick the correct airframe to learn on. This is huge.
If it needs to be relatively small, then Mojo, Tufflight Bouncer or TuffYak, ValueHobby Sabre, or LamYak.
2. Pick the right gear for it. Also huge.
3. Burn fuel. Lots of fuel.
4. Learn the harrier, bot upright and inverted. This is the basis for almost all 3D.
5. Watch these guys fly: [link=http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=McDDD&aq=f]McDDD[/link], [link=http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ProBro+Andy&aq=f]ProBro Andy[/link], [link=http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=HoverLow+Pro+Bro&aq=f]HoverLow[/link].
You can learn a lot from their style. Also look at WHAT they are flying.
I was skeptical, yet purchased an OMP Proyak 2 seasons ago. Ive gotta tell you, this plane has really made me improve my 3D skills and confidence. I am truly a superior pilot because of it. Not only is it inexpensive to put together, but it floats and really allows you the time to react. The more you practice, the quicker oyu will be able to react, and know what to expect when things happen in order to compensate. Would recommend one to anybody. Ive "dorked" it in a couple of times, and have just picked it up, restarted and kept flying(after checking for any possible damage of course.) Its in the shop now, totally stripped waiting for a recover. Im more excited to get it done to fly it this season than my bigger planes.
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:35 AM
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Default RE: 3D Newbie Questions + Progress report


I'm currently picking up trying to learn 3D again, after having had a quiet season or two recently.

I'm following the advice of Shahid Bangalawala, who's currently doing a series of articles for the UK BMFA magazine, and recommends starting with the harrier/elevator. I'm at the stage where I can get into a harrier and hold it there for a bit and do a little steering but I'd say after a dozen or so flights of that I'm only just starting to get the 'feel' of how to really keep it in the harrier through think and thin, i.e. if the plane gets upset and drops a wing etc.

Once I've got a bit more confidence with the harrier/elevator I'll use that as a starting point for getting into a prop hang. I've previously tried prop hanging by gonig vertical and then progressively slowing and had a little success, like maybe held it for 5-10 seconds! But I'm hoping going from the harrier may prove more successful.

I'm still using plenty of height but what I also do on a flight is to bring it down low and slow, but not post-stall, and just pootle around doing figures-of-8, to get the feel of flying low to the ground and close-in, ready for the day...!
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Old 05-10-2011, 06:46 AM
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Default RE: 3D Newbie Questions + Progress report

Harrier is the basis for almost all 3D maneuvers.
Learn that in all orientations including inverted and knife edge. Get where you can do figure 8's in all orientations.

Once you are comfortable with harrier, hover is just an advanced harrier, fully stalled.
Hover is much easier to do with the airframe very close to you. It's easier to read what the airframe is doing or about to do.

Throttle management is a must learn. Power is your friend.
Keep the throttle moving, it helps to bump it up and down continuously while learning.
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:04 AM
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I'm looking at a new airframe that's tough enough to survive a few arrivals. Over in the UK we have an importer of the Telink EPP jobbies - ~43" electric on 3s Lipo. Should go well in early morning calm or a little breeze. Hopefully speed up learning without having to spend half the summer in the workshop!
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:41 AM
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Default RE: 3D Newbie Questions + Progress report

There is nothing better to learn on that a MoJo. It's a very easy build and is the most durable yet still light airframe out there.

Not just my opinion, Xjet that owns [link=http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/]rcmodelreviews.com/[/link] agrees.

Here is his video review on youtube.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO07ZZDjfGI[/youtube]
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:08 AM
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Default RE: 3D Newbie Questions + Progress report

Have you learnt to put opposite aileron while cornering? Check my flying out, feel free to ask any questions. Tony.
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