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RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

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RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

Old 05-24-2011, 07:36 AM
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Radical Departure
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Default RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

Not sure of the best place to post this, so thought would drop it here. Some of you may recall the video where the biplane struck and RC plane at an event. The NTSB has determined the pilot of the RC plane to be at fault.

You can read the basics of it here; [link=http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/RC_Pilot_Blamed_In_Collision_204696-1.html]AVWEB[/link]

The NTSB report is here in pdf format; [link=http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/AccidentReports/hou5ixm0bgrdn1ajidbskjmx/P05212011120000.pdf]NTSB Finding[/link]

And a video of the incident here; [link=http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/exclusivevids/Biplane_RemoteControlledAirplane_MidairCollision_2 03157-1.html]AVWeb Video[/link]

Not sure I personally agree with the finding, but not my call either.

UPDATE: It appears the NTSB has moved the pdf, and cant seem to locate a copy of it any longer. For those interested, here is a copy of the text contained in the pdf;

During a local fly-in event, a radio controlled airplane collided with a bi-plane while the bi-plane was performing a go-around.
The radio controlled airplane was performing a hover maneuver just prior to the collision and initiated an escape maneuver which
placed the radio controlled airplane right into the flight path of the bi-plane. The bi-plane sustained substantial damage, but was able to land without further incident. The radio controlled airplane was destroyed. Prior to the event, the event coordinator briefed the participants that they were to operate their radio controlled airplanes to the east of the runway, and not directly in the runway environment. While the event coordinator was monitoring the radio for traffic, it was not clearly communicated who, if anyone, was providing spotter duties for the radio controlled airplane operator prior to the collision.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows. The radio-controlled airplane operators decision to maneuver his airplane outside of the designated operating area, resulting in a collision with a bi-plane. Contributing to the accident was the lack of a formally designated spotter.
Old 05-24-2011, 08:34 AM
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ThumbSkull
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

Full scale runway? yes
Spotter on duty? no
RC pilot flying over the runway? yes

To me it looks bad for the RC pilot but I don't have 100% of the situational facts.
Old 05-24-2011, 10:46 AM
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Sam-E
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

**** happens!!!

Old 05-24-2011, 05:21 PM
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

I HEARD IT WAS A STUNT GONE WRONG
Old 05-24-2011, 06:04 PM
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

"the biplane's maneuver as a go-around but video shows it was done at high speed and low altitude with airshow smoke on. An earlier report by the FAA says the biplane pilot reported he turned his smoke on to increase his visibility while he did the go-around"


srsly ? a go around ? smoke to increase his visibility ?[:-]


the video looks likes like the full scale commenit to his movie ADDED power and put the smoke on with clearling seeing the RC plane stationary there . looks attentional


Maybe it was a stunt gone wrong , looks vary attentional and doesn't even make sense how could you miss such a large rc plane that you know is flying in the area ?

way i see it something went wrong we might never know but it's is what it is , RC is always going to be the bad guy from onlookers eyes.


Old 05-24-2011, 06:56 PM
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

We all knew the outcome before the NTSB made their decision.

So......Who is paying to fix the full scale?

I bet its already been repaired and his lawyer has the bill and soon the RC pilot will have it!
Old 05-24-2011, 10:36 PM
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doug702
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

i would hold the rc pilot responsible because well the biplane can be heard a mile away btw what was the other guy doing why didnt he say something to the rc pilot its called right of way imo i mean does a semi swerve to avoid hitting a honda NO! honda should have waited
Old 05-25-2011, 05:27 AM
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

He should have dumped the model. What really ruined his rep was that he immediately goes on about ruining his model and rants to everyone in sight. His post on the giant scale forum (couldn't tell you where...) confirms this. Extremely immature and downright dangerous attitude. 

Sorry, but wether or not the full scale pilot was doing something illegal, the lives of those onboard come first. His model is a toy. An expensive toy, but not even close to the value of someone's life. 
Old 05-25-2011, 06:44 AM
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

IMO the full scale pilot and the air boss got togather and threw the RC guy under the bus. As I
understand it the air boss had given the rc guy permission to fly where he was and the rc guy
thought the air boss was also spotter for him. Also the air boss was in radio contact with the
full scale and told him there was model in the air the fullscale apparently told the air boss
he was going around but instead made a low high speed pass down the runway or just to
left of the runway.
Old 05-25-2011, 07:35 AM
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ameyam
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

Thats definately a stunt gone wrong

Ameyam
Old 05-25-2011, 08:35 AM
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ira d
 
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

Not sure if it was a stunt or at least I dont think so but if so the full scale pilot will never admit to it.
Old 05-25-2011, 09:01 PM
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

You can argue all day long that the R/C guy was at fault or the full scale pilot was at fault or anyone else but it doesn't mean diddly squat. The only voice with teeth is the NTSB and they have spoken whether you like their decision or not. It's over and done with. Move on. Your opinion or mine means nothing as to who is liable.
Old 05-26-2011, 05:06 AM
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

In the end the onus is on us to see and avoid manned aircraft, whether or not they are being stupid.
Old 05-26-2011, 05:14 AM
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

Apparently the FAA sees this a bit differently. The FS pilot had a court hearing a month ago.
Old 05-26-2011, 06:01 AM
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft


ORIGINAL: ira d

IMO the full scale pilot and the air boss got togather and threw the RC guy under the bus. As I
understand it the air boss had given the rc guy permission to fly where he was and the rc guy
thought the air boss was also spotter for him. Also the air boss was in radio contact with the
full scale and told him there was model in the air the fullscale apparently told the air boss
he was going around but instead made a low high speed pass down the runway or just to
left of the runway.

In my opinion you are spot on. Back when it happened I saw several videos from different perspectives.

This was part of an RC flying event that also included full scale exhibition. The RC pilot was doing what was requested of him. He had an event rep with a radio right next to him. The RC pilot had been flying for a while. Throughout it all you could hear the event rep communicating via radio with coordinators. IMO it sounded to me like the RC pilot was following the plan and instructions exactly.

Probably more than anything it was a bad idea on the part of the event coordinators. They should possibly consider if a fly by of this nature was even a good concept to begin with.

But after the fact, heck yes the RC pilot had every right to be upset, dumfounded, and emotional. I would have been as well. IMO

Also IMO the RC pilot was thrown under the bus such that the full scale pilot wouldn't feel the full legal ramifications.

Old 05-26-2011, 07:00 AM
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

Also I might add the reason why I see the full scale as having the most blame is because the rc plane
was in the air space first be it the wrong air space or not and the full scale invaded the air space not
knowing for sure where the rc was or what his intentions were, Also the full scale apparently did not
tell the air boss he was going to make a low pass. If the full scale had stayed out of the area untill
he was told the runway was clear this collision would not have happened.
Old 05-26-2011, 08:52 AM
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

Rules don 't exist anymore ...only RULERS do.
Old 05-26-2011, 09:14 AM
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft


ORIGINAL: ira d

Also I might add the reason why I see the full scale as having the most blame is because the rc plane
was in the air space first be it the wrong air space or not and the full scale invaded the air space not
knowing for sure where the rc was or what his intentions were, Also the full scale apparently did not
tell the air boss he was going to make a low pass. If the full scale had stayed out of the area untill
he was told the runway was clear this collision would not have happened.

wow...

Full scale ALWAYS has the right of way... Period..

There was no NOTAM and it is an uncontrolled airport. The full scale pilot isn't even required to have a radio.....

Old 05-26-2011, 09:42 AM
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

The only voice with teeth is the NTSB and they have spoken whether you like their decision or not. It's over and done with. Move on. Your opinion or mine means nothing as to who is liable.
Actually the NTSB reports have no teeth and it is the FAA that does the enforcement. It is not unusual that the FAA takes enforcement action that the NTSB does not seem to know about or perhaps agree with. However the NTSB does have the court of appeal from FAA actions, but again what is found in court is often something different from the NTSB investigations.
Old 05-26-2011, 09:46 AM
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

What is the right or wrong airspace on a private airfield? If you have a really big backyard you can pave a runway on it and it is sometimes listed on the air charts. But you can use your airstrip for a dragstrip, backyard barbeque, or whatever. To me the NTSB investigator just didn't dig enough.
Old 05-26-2011, 09:47 AM
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

Full scale ALWAYS has the right of way... Period..
Yes you can find that in the AMA safety code. You can find that in an AC . But the FAR's do not.

There was no NOTAM and it is an uncontrolled airport. The full scale pilot isn't even required to have a radio.....
It was not an uncontrolled airport, it was a private airport. That means you cannot land without prior permission from the owner which makes a Notam redundant! A radio is required if the owner is using a radio to give permission to land via a radio. Without a radio you would be trespassing.
Old 05-26-2011, 02:12 PM
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft


ORIGINAL: exeter_acres


ORIGINAL: ira d

Also I might add the reason why I see the full scale as having the most blame is because the rc plane
was in the air space first be it the wrong air space or not and the full scale invaded the air space not
knowing for sure where the rc was or what his intentions were, Also the full scale apparently did not
tell the air boss he was going to make a low pass. If the full scale had stayed out of the area untill
he was told the runway was clear this collision would not have happened.

wow...

Full scale ALWAYS has the right of way... Period..

There was no NOTAM and it is an uncontrolled airport. The full scale pilot isn't even required to have a radio.....

What does right of the way have to with anything? You cant run over something just because you
think you have the right of way. The full scale had just as much responsiblty to avoid the collison
as the rc guy in light of the fact he was told the rc plane was in the air.

At my club we have several members that also fly full scale, occasionally they will do fly by's
maybe even fly over the runway but they never do so with out doing a fly by at a distance and
or making contact with someone on the ground by phone so they can alert everyone of their
intentions and see if is safe. You never hear these guys talking about when I fly full scale
I can do what I want because I have the right of way It just dont make good sense to
think that way.

Old 05-26-2011, 06:00 PM
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft

So what about all the nearby spectators?
Old 05-26-2011, 08:11 PM
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ira d
 
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft


ORIGINAL: Uncas

So what about all the nearby spectators?
I dont follow your question.
Old 05-27-2011, 05:02 AM
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Default RE: RC Pilot blamed for Collision w/ Aircraft


ORIGINAL: ira d


ORIGINAL: exeter_acres


ORIGINAL: ira d

Also I might add the reason why I see the full scale as having the most blame is because the rc plane
was in the air space first be it the wrong air space or not and the full scale invaded the air space not
knowing for sure where the rc was or what his intentions were, Also the full scale apparently did not
tell the air boss he was going to make a low pass. If the full scale had stayed out of the area untill
he was told the runway was clear this collision would not have happened.

wow...

Full scale ALWAYS has the right of way... Period..

There was no NOTAM and it is an uncontrolled airport. The full scale pilot isn't even required to have a radio.....

. The full scale had just as much responsiblty to avoid the collison
as the rc guy in light of the fact he was told the rc plane was in the air.


Again... it was an OPEN full scaled UNCONTROLLED airport... with NO NOTAM. a man with a radio does not make him air traffic control
most Certainly the full scale has right of way.....

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