Le Madness II photos, finally.
08-21-2003, 10:52 AM
#1
Le Madness II photos, finally.
Wow, after almots 16 hours of grueling assembly (LOL) because of frustration with the perfect fit of everything (really, it just fell together), I finished the first of two Madness IIs that I will assemble this month. No issues discovered in building. First time fit on everything. Incredibly clean wood cutting and covering and absolutely no "we made it fit" issues.
As usual, we applied a few custom graphics and made our personal changes as follows.
Changes made where:
MK control horns (the cheap ones with plastic triangle bases) for ailerons and elevators
Dubro control rods with Dubro ball links at the servos and steel clevises at the MK horn.
Added Bolly CF gear and MK wheel pant mounts and axles (the MP Jet pant mounts included are pretty nifty, but once I used the MK system on my F3A airplanes I became addicted to the system) The pants were in the box already.
Tied the tail together with Kevlar thread. I will write this into the instructions. I recommend this method as this airplane will balance out very well without adding tail weight and the battery mounted in a very sensible location.
Lastly, I placed to pieces of tri-stock on the inside side corners of the firewall as we will use the YS63 and it pulls more than other motors that are great for this application.
For control motivation we used Futaba S9550 metal geared all around and Dubro super strenght servo arms.
Final weight is 4.9 pounds and it is not a tiny airplane. It is lighter than the original Madness, longer in the tail, shorter in the nose, ailerons extended to the wingtips. Canopy is longer and the wing is raised about an inch. Fuse side area is increased. The airplane is much prettier (OK, that's opinion, not scientific fact, but see for yourself).
Unfortunately, we were out of Tru-Turns to fit the cowl, but we shall mount one as soon as it arrives. It will look much nicer. I have plenty of room to slide the battery rearwards without cutting or slicing anything up and we are going to start (first flight tonight) at about 36% CG.
Anyway, if you have questions that I have not answered, I guess I'll read them as things go on. I'll let the pictures do the talking for now.
As usual, we applied a few custom graphics and made our personal changes as follows.
Changes made where:
MK control horns (the cheap ones with plastic triangle bases) for ailerons and elevators
Dubro control rods with Dubro ball links at the servos and steel clevises at the MK horn.
Added Bolly CF gear and MK wheel pant mounts and axles (the MP Jet pant mounts included are pretty nifty, but once I used the MK system on my F3A airplanes I became addicted to the system) The pants were in the box already.
Tied the tail together with Kevlar thread. I will write this into the instructions. I recommend this method as this airplane will balance out very well without adding tail weight and the battery mounted in a very sensible location.
Lastly, I placed to pieces of tri-stock on the inside side corners of the firewall as we will use the YS63 and it pulls more than other motors that are great for this application.
For control motivation we used Futaba S9550 metal geared all around and Dubro super strenght servo arms.
Final weight is 4.9 pounds and it is not a tiny airplane. It is lighter than the original Madness, longer in the tail, shorter in the nose, ailerons extended to the wingtips. Canopy is longer and the wing is raised about an inch. Fuse side area is increased. The airplane is much prettier (OK, that's opinion, not scientific fact, but see for yourself).
Unfortunately, we were out of Tru-Turns to fit the cowl, but we shall mount one as soon as it arrives. It will look much nicer. I have plenty of room to slide the battery rearwards without cutting or slicing anything up and we are going to start (first flight tonight) at about 36% CG.
Anyway, if you have questions that I have not answered, I guess I'll read them as things go on. I'll let the pictures do the talking for now.
08-21-2003, 11:10 AM
#4
Le Madness II photos, finally.
I find this Madness 2 graphic to be much more attractive than the original's Madness graphic. This graphic is on the airplane out of the box as is the Madness graphic on the wing.
We added the ZN graphics, the Futaba, and of course the FAI numbers.
We added the ZN graphics, the Futaba, and of course the FAI numbers.
08-21-2003, 11:13 AM
#5
Le Madness II photos, finally.
Top view. I have some good ideas on manuevers with the new moments. I believe that ascending spins out of tight oblique loops from a few feet high should become much easier with the lengthened fuselage. We shall soon see.
08-21-2003, 11:16 AM
#6
Le Madness II photos, finally.
Here is the happy owner of our first Madness II. Hmm, this guy always gets the first one. This is JP Zardini, co-owner of ZNLine and 10 times F3A WC competitor, 3 times Belgian F3A champion and just fantastic pilot. Now, if I can only teach him to abuse funflyers properly!!!
08-21-2003, 11:19 AM
#7
Le Madness II photos, finally.
Last photo.
Nice looking funflyer. We will be flying it in about four hours. I'll shoot a post here tonight on the results and more after I fly it. I did not bring a radio today and JP and I fly different modes. I hope to get a shot at wringing her out at our show this weekend. We will also have the dueling Madnesses going with JPs new and my old Madness, and probably about a half dozen others.
Thanks for checking this out.
Regards,
Mark
Nice looking funflyer. We will be flying it in about four hours. I'll shoot a post here tonight on the results and more after I fly it. I did not bring a radio today and JP and I fly different modes. I hope to get a shot at wringing her out at our show this weekend. We will also have the dueling Madnesses going with JPs new and my old Madness, and probably about a half dozen others.
Thanks for checking this out.
Regards,
Mark
08-21-2003, 11:48 AM
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Le Madness II photos, finally.
Looking cool.
Is there any design on the bottom of the wing?
Not sure about the design of the cowl, but that may be improved with a spinner.
Is there any design on the bottom of the wing?
Not sure about the design of the cowl, but that may be improved with a spinner.
08-21-2003, 12:19 PM
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Le Madness II photos, finally.
itll be interesting to see if it has the same stall characteristic as the flip, judging by the similar wing tip shape.
looks ace, cowl is a tad boxy though!
looks ace, cowl is a tad boxy though!
08-21-2003, 12:47 PM
#10
What stall characteristic is that?
The wing is actually the same airfoil and geometry as the original Madness but with extended ailerons. The Flip wing has a shorter chord and more taper.
I just went and gazed at the Flip picture. The wing shapes are actually quite different between the Madnesses and the Flip. I had forgotten how severe the taper on the TE or the Flip's wing was.
Well, the first generation Madness was an absolute blast (still is, mine is living on yet), and this one is Christophe's new design that removed any bugs he felt were not good in the first design.
It is currently a little bit breezy for great funfly 3D, but hopefully it will calm down for this evening and let us really explore the slow end of the envelope where things become really fun and bizarre.
Mark
I just went and gazed at the Flip picture. The wing shapes are actually quite different between the Madnesses and the Flip. I had forgotten how severe the taper on the TE or the Flip's wing was.
Well, the first generation Madness was an absolute blast (still is, mine is living on yet), and this one is Christophe's new design that removed any bugs he felt were not good in the first design.
It is currently a little bit breezy for great funfly 3D, but hopefully it will calm down for this evening and let us really explore the slow end of the envelope where things become really fun and bizarre.
Mark
08-21-2003, 02:26 PM
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Le Madness II photos, finally.
Those ailerons look wierd. Isnt it better to have as much aileron near the fuzelage and in the propwash as possible for wing control during hovering?
looks nice anyway apart form the cowl ugh.
looks nice anyway apart form the cowl ugh.
08-21-2003, 03:20 PM
#13
Dimensions and ailerons
Luke, I guess that tonight we will know whether or not propwash is effective in the ailerons. I do not really think that 20 cm square should make any difference, though. We are talking about a small corner cut out. I'm quite sure that the airplane will do point rolls in hover just fine. I'll report back on that later.
The dimensions are 151cm long by 151cm span, measured at the rear point of the wing where the span is the largest.
JP has applied a few more graphics and the airplane is really looking nice now. A CPLR near the nose and behind the canopy, a Central Hobbies on the mid portion of the turtle deck. I'll get a couple more shots.
The cowl is not pretty withough a spinner, but I think once the lines are blended in and I give it a quicky paint job it will be much prettier. With the little cowl cheeks, it really does need a spinner to finish things off properly.
Once he takes the dog to the groomer, we will go test fly. I spent a few minutes during lunch hour adjusting the YS to a purr so everything is ready.
Mark
The dimensions are 151cm long by 151cm span, measured at the rear point of the wing where the span is the largest.
JP has applied a few more graphics and the airplane is really looking nice now. A CPLR near the nose and behind the canopy, a Central Hobbies on the mid portion of the turtle deck. I'll get a couple more shots.
The cowl is not pretty withough a spinner, but I think once the lines are blended in and I give it a quicky paint job it will be much prettier. With the little cowl cheeks, it really does need a spinner to finish things off properly.
Once he takes the dog to the groomer, we will go test fly. I spent a few minutes during lunch hour adjusting the YS to a purr so everything is ready.
Mark
08-21-2003, 06:12 PM
#15
Hello my friend
Cranston,
Yes, I am going to edit the text and finish the manual early next week. Kits going out after next week will have the instruction. I shall, perhaps, do a little photo assembly article here and include the address into the manual. After all, RCU is intended to be a source for helping modelers build or assemble airplanes.
Mark
Yes, I am going to edit the text and finish the manual early next week. Kits going out after next week will have the instruction. I shall, perhaps, do a little photo assembly article here and include the address into the manual. After all, RCU is intended to be a source for helping modelers build or assemble airplanes.
Mark
08-21-2003, 08:38 PM
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Le Madness II photos, finally.
hi Guys
Madness 2 - for me, I like the orignal Madness design, the pearl colours looked classy. Upon looking and Madness 2, it does look like it's going to be lighter. Hope the Bolly gear goes ok for you, because when we tested Bolly gear on a 2M Majestic it caused severe flutter to the ailerons. We have since fitted ZN gear, with no problems.
Madness 2 may be better flight wise, but looking at Madness 1, Madness 1 looks nicer. The colours clash for me, I'm not too sure about the angle on the Aileron's either.
I bet she flies better than madness 1, I hope she goes well for you!
Regards
Biggles
Madness 2 - for me, I like the orignal Madness design, the pearl colours looked classy. Upon looking and Madness 2, it does look like it's going to be lighter. Hope the Bolly gear goes ok for you, because when we tested Bolly gear on a 2M Majestic it caused severe flutter to the ailerons. We have since fitted ZN gear, with no problems.
Madness 2 may be better flight wise, but looking at Madness 1, Madness 1 looks nicer. The colours clash for me, I'm not too sure about the angle on the Aileron's either.
I bet she flies better than madness 1, I hope she goes well for you!
Regards
Biggles
08-21-2003, 09:33 PM
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Take Care
Nice product and I like it Mark but please do take care over double standards and advertising under the current climate...
Indeed we are all guests...............
.
my political instincts are ruined by my big mouth…RCU is…Marc's house. Marc Vigod, the owner and administrator, demands by written rules that a certain etiquette be applied to postings. So, whether you like it or not, when you come into Marc's house, you will conduct yourself within the context of rules and apply a little bit of reason to what you do and say here.
Oh, if you don't like it, you may go and invest your own small fortune in servers and software and time and knowledge and make your own interactive forum set. And if you want to leave in a huff, there are 50,000 plus members who will never give you a second thought. Don't think that your input is irreplaceable.
We are all guests. Respect the host.
my political instincts are ruined by my big mouth…RCU is…Marc's house. Marc Vigod, the owner and administrator, demands by written rules that a certain etiquette be applied to postings. So, whether you like it or not, when you come into Marc's house, you will conduct yourself within the context of rules and apply a little bit of reason to what you do and say here.
Oh, if you don't like it, you may go and invest your own small fortune in servers and software and time and knowledge and make your own interactive forum set. And if you want to leave in a huff, there are 50,000 plus members who will never give you a second thought. Don't think that your input is irreplaceable.
We are all guests. Respect the host.
08-22-2003, 04:56 AM
#19
A quick flight report
Just a real quicky because I must shower and get to work. The Armt awaits.
Flying at 36% is nose heavy.
However, the airplane is really nice. After the Yamada had three flights it started to respond nicely.
We started of with a normal hand launch takeoff. The airplane does fly better than the original. The ailerons are much more effective (I sealed the gaps too) than the original and it flys a good deal slower and more precise. It floats, but it floats straight. I receive a mail on the ailerons from somebody claiming to be an engineer. They said that beveling the ailerons at the root would keep them outside of the dirty air that travels near the fuselage and make the airplane a little steadier. The ailerons give instant response at any speed. It flew a fantastic sportsman sequence with no correction needed, something that cannot be done well with the first Madness.
After flying, I moved the battery back and the CG is now between 39% and 39%. I will have more to say on the results after the weekend show.
Mark
Flying at 36% is nose heavy.
However, the airplane is really nice. After the Yamada had three flights it started to respond nicely.
We started of with a normal hand launch takeoff. The airplane does fly better than the original. The ailerons are much more effective (I sealed the gaps too) than the original and it flys a good deal slower and more precise. It floats, but it floats straight. I receive a mail on the ailerons from somebody claiming to be an engineer. They said that beveling the ailerons at the root would keep them outside of the dirty air that travels near the fuselage and make the airplane a little steadier. The ailerons give instant response at any speed. It flew a fantastic sportsman sequence with no correction needed, something that cannot be done well with the first Madness.
After flying, I moved the battery back and the CG is now between 39% and 39%. I will have more to say on the results after the weekend show.
Mark
08-22-2003, 08:55 AM
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Le Madness II photos, finally.
My kits are coming....
It is IMO an improvement looks wise.... I still have my original one.
Mark
I understand the kits comes with wheel pants correct?
What u/c is provided... Alu ?
What graphics have you added... does it come with the M2 logos etc?
Do you get some coloured decal to finish the lines on the cowl...
Cant wait myself...
Mark... Catweasel has a point sort off... watch out they is real keen after the recent Forum Hooliganism....
Look forward to the above info...
PS - What engine mount have you used..?
It is IMO an improvement looks wise.... I still have my original one.
Mark
I understand the kits comes with wheel pants correct?
What u/c is provided... Alu ?
What graphics have you added... does it come with the M2 logos etc?
Do you get some coloured decal to finish the lines on the cowl...
Cant wait myself...
Mark... Catweasel has a point sort off... watch out they is real keen after the recent Forum Hooliganism....
Look forward to the above info...
PS - What engine mount have you used..?
08-22-2003, 09:45 AM
#22
In response to questions.
The pants are in the kit. The gear are the same wires gear with the original, but there is a nifty MP Jet device for the pants.
The Madness 2 graphic is included. It is a beautiful graphic with some fine lines.
No decals for the cowl. I plan on doing mine up with some cheapy canned paint and getting a friend to shoot a clear gloss over the whole thing.
Added graphics are some CPLRs, tail numbers, ZN graphics, more ZN graphics, Central Hobbies, YS performace (Performance Specialties).
Motor mount is the stock job included. It fits either the OS46/50 sized motors and the YS63. I would not use a soft mount, but shock mounting the original with those little grommets in the holes would soften the reverberation and reduce airframe vibration.
One thing I would like to add about flying is that, although we were decidedly nose heavy, knife edge performance is vastly improved over the first airplane. JP went for a stall turn and then kept in the rudder and flew a tight knife loop exiting horizontal. This will vastly improve with the CG moved back. Perhaps, just perhaps, a pinwheel might be possible for mortal pilots with training.
Mark
One more thing on a personal note:
As far as advirtising, I consciously stay away from posting websites, prices, sources, sales information, and push selling. I do not profit at all from the sale of Madnesses (not one penny). I like to think that I conduct honest public interest disemmination of non-hyped and truthful information regarding an airplane for which I will pay full price. My relation with the company that provides this airplane is one of friendship and teamwork. I share this for the benefit of the hobbiest and do it out of my absolute love for model airplanes. My benefits include working with the makers of airplanes that win world championships, having an F3A coach with 23 years of world class competition experience, working in a shop that would make most modelers drool, and watching airplanes that I have helped to build fly in the hands of champions around the world. I am a professional soldier in the US Army for my living. I work part time WITH this company, not FOR this company. I do this only because I believe in the products personally, I buy them and fly them and have found nothing better. I do provide customer support to any English speaking callers when I am in for the company, but again, my reward is only in helping them and this makes me feel very good.
What I will not do is spam this forum with off subject information, provide unsolicited purchasing information, make deals (that I am not in the position to make anyway), and especially be in anyway dishonest because I post to these formums under my real name, provide full profile information, and have a great deal of concern in maintaining my integrity beyond reproach as someday I hope to be fully associated with this industry professionally and want my name to be trusted as a source of honest and straight forward information.
Excuse me for getting side tracked by these last two paragraphs, but I wanted to be very clear with my intentions.
Sincerely,
Mark Novack
The Madness 2 graphic is included. It is a beautiful graphic with some fine lines.
No decals for the cowl. I plan on doing mine up with some cheapy canned paint and getting a friend to shoot a clear gloss over the whole thing.
Added graphics are some CPLRs, tail numbers, ZN graphics, more ZN graphics, Central Hobbies, YS performace (Performance Specialties).
Motor mount is the stock job included. It fits either the OS46/50 sized motors and the YS63. I would not use a soft mount, but shock mounting the original with those little grommets in the holes would soften the reverberation and reduce airframe vibration.
One thing I would like to add about flying is that, although we were decidedly nose heavy, knife edge performance is vastly improved over the first airplane. JP went for a stall turn and then kept in the rudder and flew a tight knife loop exiting horizontal. This will vastly improve with the CG moved back. Perhaps, just perhaps, a pinwheel might be possible for mortal pilots with training.
Mark
One more thing on a personal note:
As far as advirtising, I consciously stay away from posting websites, prices, sources, sales information, and push selling. I do not profit at all from the sale of Madnesses (not one penny). I like to think that I conduct honest public interest disemmination of non-hyped and truthful information regarding an airplane for which I will pay full price. My relation with the company that provides this airplane is one of friendship and teamwork. I share this for the benefit of the hobbiest and do it out of my absolute love for model airplanes. My benefits include working with the makers of airplanes that win world championships, having an F3A coach with 23 years of world class competition experience, working in a shop that would make most modelers drool, and watching airplanes that I have helped to build fly in the hands of champions around the world. I am a professional soldier in the US Army for my living. I work part time WITH this company, not FOR this company. I do this only because I believe in the products personally, I buy them and fly them and have found nothing better. I do provide customer support to any English speaking callers when I am in for the company, but again, my reward is only in helping them and this makes me feel very good.
What I will not do is spam this forum with off subject information, provide unsolicited purchasing information, make deals (that I am not in the position to make anyway), and especially be in anyway dishonest because I post to these formums under my real name, provide full profile information, and have a great deal of concern in maintaining my integrity beyond reproach as someday I hope to be fully associated with this industry professionally and want my name to be trusted as a source of honest and straight forward information.
Excuse me for getting side tracked by these last two paragraphs, but I wanted to be very clear with my intentions.
Sincerely,
Mark Novack
08-22-2003, 05:32 PM
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Le Madness II photos, finally.
Err okay Mark calm down...
Thanks for answering the q's... I agree on the engine mount.. I did the same on my original Madness with the YS 53...
Will go 63 on the No 2....
Shame about the cowl decal but then I guess is oracover / profilm used to cover so I can get some of the same colour yes ?
Knife Edge... thats good... that was a weakness of the original but then it was a pretty old design... things have moved a long way since then...
Is it a full flying rudder, or is there a fixed fin..... I cant make it out from the pics...
thanks
Thanks for answering the q's... I agree on the engine mount.. I did the same on my original Madness with the YS 53...
Will go 63 on the No 2....
Shame about the cowl decal but then I guess is oracover / profilm used to cover so I can get some of the same colour yes ?
Knife Edge... thats good... that was a weakness of the original but then it was a pretty old design... things have moved a long way since then...
Is it a full flying rudder, or is there a fixed fin..... I cant make it out from the pics...
thanks
08-22-2003, 08:18 PM
#25
I'm calm, very calm
Archie,
Had I been speaking, you would have heard a very calm voice, kind of like that of somebody telling a story or giving a news broadcast about the state of agriculture. I drive in Belgium, hence, about fifty times per day somebody is trying to kill me or run me down and it never even phases me. I only wanted to be clear about my intentions for those who may believe I rake in profits galore for my efforts. Really, I was almost Zen as I wrote my personal note :-) I very rarely become heated or angry, although I do get very excited when I have a show tomorrow, six airplanes already at the field in a semi truck positioned at the field, under guard, and Benoit Paysant-Le Roux is coming tomorrow with Christophe's TOC CAP232!!! It will be awesome and the weather is forcasted to be great, although somewhat breezing which will make the 3D dancing somewhat sketchy with a half dozen Madnesses and a Flip or two jockeying for a good hover position.
OK, back to the airplane. There is a small fixed fin very similar to the Syn90 or the 2m Syn140 3D (I have a Syn140 coming too, yay!!!) Pictures next summer, it will be the last project of the year cold season.
The cowl is a shame, but the folks who build these airplanes are not earning a Chinese wage and this controls cost a little bit I guess. It is Oracover and will be no problem to match with hobby paints made for Oracover colors.
We moved the CG back to 39% last night and test flew again this evening. The 63 is starting to even out very nicely and the knife-edge and hovering is better, but it can still go back even further, perhaps to 42%. At 39% it is starting to exhibit that nose high attitude when the motor is idleing, but I prefer that the airplane actually be so far rear balanced that when the motor is idling, at neutral stick it will stall, drop nose, stall, drop nose, all on its own accord (like thos old wooden gliders we tossed around as children). We will try a few grams of stick-on lead tomorrow early before the show starts officialy. The flat spin enterd comforatbly and easily will tell us when the CG is back far enough.
We will really wring it out this weekend and when all sorted out balance wise I'll give my final report on flying. I'm sure that Benoit will show us its full capabilities...I understand that he freestyles and 3Ds just about as well as his brother.
Mark
Had I been speaking, you would have heard a very calm voice, kind of like that of somebody telling a story or giving a news broadcast about the state of agriculture. I drive in Belgium, hence, about fifty times per day somebody is trying to kill me or run me down and it never even phases me. I only wanted to be clear about my intentions for those who may believe I rake in profits galore for my efforts. Really, I was almost Zen as I wrote my personal note :-) I very rarely become heated or angry, although I do get very excited when I have a show tomorrow, six airplanes already at the field in a semi truck positioned at the field, under guard, and Benoit Paysant-Le Roux is coming tomorrow with Christophe's TOC CAP232!!! It will be awesome and the weather is forcasted to be great, although somewhat breezing which will make the 3D dancing somewhat sketchy with a half dozen Madnesses and a Flip or two jockeying for a good hover position.
OK, back to the airplane. There is a small fixed fin very similar to the Syn90 or the 2m Syn140 3D (I have a Syn140 coming too, yay!!!) Pictures next summer, it will be the last project of the year cold season.
The cowl is a shame, but the folks who build these airplanes are not earning a Chinese wage and this controls cost a little bit I guess. It is Oracover and will be no problem to match with hobby paints made for Oracover colors.
We moved the CG back to 39% last night and test flew again this evening. The 63 is starting to even out very nicely and the knife-edge and hovering is better, but it can still go back even further, perhaps to 42%. At 39% it is starting to exhibit that nose high attitude when the motor is idleing, but I prefer that the airplane actually be so far rear balanced that when the motor is idling, at neutral stick it will stall, drop nose, stall, drop nose, all on its own accord (like thos old wooden gliders we tossed around as children). We will try a few grams of stick-on lead tomorrow early before the show starts officialy. The flat spin enterd comforatbly and easily will tell us when the CG is back far enough.
We will really wring it out this weekend and when all sorted out balance wise I'll give my final report on flying. I'm sure that Benoit will show us its full capabilities...I understand that he freestyles and 3Ds just about as well as his brother.
Mark