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Katana 50 by Hangar 9

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Old 01-04-2013, 07:59 PM
  #51  
Warbird40
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

I am by no means giving you the rolled eyes buddy, I like what Im seeing, looks great. I picked the wrong smiley!
I apologize....thanks for the info and pics.

Ed
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:17 PM
  #52  
LSP972
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

Okey-dokey.

.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:23 PM
  #53  
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

When do you think she'll be up?
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:35 PM
  #54  
mike early
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

I am filling my cart with this plane and accessories... 2" spinner looks better than the 2.25" spinner?
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:42 PM
  #55  
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

I can't wait to get one!
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:53 PM
  #56  
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

>>> Easily fixed with a Sig Easy-Hinge patch >>>

That is a new one to me and sheer genius for fiberglass repair! (that's just a CA hinge. I think Sig led the way on those in the 90's?)

Nice job of cleaning that engine up, even got rid of the blue paint and spiffed up the valve covers. Yes, let us know how she balances. I have a Saito 100.....
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:43 AM
  #57  
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

Ernie, there was never any blue paint on that engine. Its an original Surpass, before they started making the valve covers black. I bought it in the early 90s; it first flew on a Big Bingo kit; remember those?

When I first moved down here, I lived a few blocks from Gale Helms (father of Steve Helms at Futaba). He was a member of the R/C club I joined, and a true master modeler in every sense of the words. I learned an amazing amount of tips/tricks from him, including this. He used it to reinforce cowl mount screw holes, which I do too... but it also works great for repair of cracks in fiberglass pieces/parts.

IIRC, Gale actually invented the CA hinge. He was a retired engineer from Westinghouse, former champion C/L racer, and built some of the most beautiful models you've ever seen.

Don't know how well they will photograph, but I'll try to post a pic or two of my cowl "fix".

.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:59 AM
  #58  
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

Here ya go. The middle one is the "patch" over the crack.

This really extends the life of a glass cowl, especially when used in conjunction with a set of "cushioned" screws. The tubing over the screw thread is what contacts the cowl. As for what tubing to use... you know that useless, thin, clear clunk line that come in most Pacific Rim-made ARF kits? Turns out there is a use for it after all...

Caveat... using these "cushioned" mounting screws demands that ALL the holes match up perfectly with the ones in the fuselage. It isn't difficult, just time-consuming.

.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:08 AM
  #59  
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9


ORIGINAL: Warbird40

When do you think she'll be up?
Couple of weeks at best. I've still got to "wring out" my new 2.4 radio system in another model, to my satisfaction and edification, before installing it in this airplane (I got a new 2.4 system for Xmas- still not sure of what I'm doing with it, but I'm learning). And that depends on the weather. Hopefully I'll be able to do that tomorrow, but the forecast is iffy right now.

Plus, I may get called back to work. I'm retired, but my former agency uses me as a consultant and its just too good of a deal to pass up. So that would crimp my assembly time.

So, it depends... on several factors. I don't see the sense in turning this into a build thread, but I'll continue to post info/pics on points of interest, as they come up. I'm going to start on the wings today.

.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:48 PM
  #60  
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

Have had Hanger 9 Katana 50 for a couple of years now and I think all Katanas will pretty much knife edge by themselves. I used 3152's through out, with a O.S. .55 AX and put a life battery from Tower Hobbies on the side of the engine box. CG came out ok. It is a shame Hanger 9 won't put the side force generator in the box, they are asking $18 for them. Seen a picture of what they look like and made a set myself out of Lexan. Seems to work good. Would like to have another Hanger 9 Kat 50 to try an .82 Saito in. I think they are one of the better looking and flying arfs around. Bought mine from Advantage Hobbies and it seems that Hanger 9 prices fluctuate for some reason?? Anyway, right know, they are at $186.00 from Advantage with $14 something for shipping. They fly great and the only limits are your rc skills, which mine are slowly improving, go for it.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:26 PM
  #61  
mike early
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

2" spinners are sorta small for a Saito 82 and the 13-14-15" props. I better stick with 2.25" I think...
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:31 PM
  #62  
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

Has anyone put an AXI 4120/14 into one of these? I think that it'll have more power than the Power 52. Just curious about other folks opinions.....

Mike Early, you might want to give some thought to that 2" spinner... I did that on a plane once and found that I could not get a combination of adapter hardware that would fit. I agree, it would look better but it might not be attainable. Just giving a heads-up so that you don't make the mistake that I made once on another plane. I finally replaced that 2" spinner with a 2-1/4" size, and at that I had to go to an Ultimate-style spinner to be able to enclose all the adapter hardware that I needed.

Just my $.02

Bob
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:32 AM
  #63  
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9


ORIGINAL: mike early

2'' spinners are sorta small for a Saito 82 and the 13-14-15'' props.
Ditto for the OS 91 Surpass. However, I spoke with one of the techs at Tru-Turn; we discussed it in detail. The main problems with a spinner that small are two-fold; first, the spinner itself isn't long enough to accommodate the necessarily long adapter jam nut for four strokes (to prevent a back-fire from disassembling the whole arrangement), and second, the cutouts aren't large enough for the prop blades. I knew this already, but the tech affirmed it. He stated that the 120 cut and wide blade cut offered on their 2" spinners would clear the blades with no problem, and that the Ultimate version of their spinner was long enough to contain the jam nut.

So I ordered a complete 2" Ultimate spinner with the "120 cut", and an extra cone with the "wide" cut. I already had the adapter kit/jam nut. I got both because the wide cut won't fit a normal pitch prop, and the 120 cut won't fit the wide blade/low pitch 3F props. I intend to try both types of prop on this airplane.

We'll see how it works out. A 2.25" spinner will work, of course, and is called for in the book, but (to me, anyway) just looks out of proportion- too big.

.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:20 AM
  #64  
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

Oops, I spoke too soon.... sorry Mike

Bob
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:31 PM
  #65  
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

Here's something watch for; or, "Don't Be A Dummy Like Me".

This model needs (and it is spelled out in the manual) the aileron servo arms facing outboard- toward the wing tip. I've set up a dozen sets of wings like this, so I "doan need no steenkin' instructions!", right? Wrong.

I always face my aileron arms inward, toward the fuse. Why, I couldn't tell you, because it really makes no difference in control response. But that's what I did. After squaring up the linkage and locating the position for the control horn on the aileron, I began to drill the holes for the screws and met NO resistance. What??? I cut the covering and had a look inside, and there wasn't anything there but a 2mm strip of balsa. Right there I should have realized I had goofed, but no. I got all Master Modeler with myself, and spent two hours fabricating a 3/32 ply backer plate, installing it, and then repairing the covering (I had plenty of U-Cote True Red in my scrap box). While I was finishing up the covering repair, I took a good look at the wing structure, and realized that there was meat to the outboard of the nearby rib, and THAT is where the horn was supposed to go. What an idiot....

Anyway, in the next post I'll post some photos of the faux pas and how I "fixed" it, should anyone make the same mistake. Because I guarantee you... if you just attach the horn to that 2mm balsa strip, bad things will happen very quickly on the maiden flight.

.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:39 PM
  #66  
LSP972
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

What you see here is the bottom of the left aileron, looking from the TE to the LE. At first, I thought the builder in China had simply neglected to glue in the extra wood for the horn screws to bite into.

The other photos show the 3/32 ply backer plate in place and the covering repair. That plate should carry the load, but you can be sure I'm going to keep an eye on it. I probably should just move the arms and horns to the correct place, but I'm done messing with it for today.

.
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:57 PM
  #67  
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

Lsp972, you're an honest funny guy. I think we all had moments like that.

I detracted from the manual and upgraded to robart style hinges. Preference.

One note about this model, using two mini servos in the tail adds significant weight and warrants a bit of weight up front.
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:11 PM
  #68  
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

Is it possible to using a single standard servo up in the fuselage?
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:42 AM
  #69  
LSP972
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9


ORIGINAL: mike early

Is it possible to using a single standard servo up in the fuselage?
If you're referring to an elevator servo, there is no practical way- due to the way this model is designed- to tie the elevators together... which would be necessary for one-servo operation.

The motor box design gives you plenty of places to attach the battery and/or extra ballast if needed for balancing the airplane.

I have found that these Extra/Edge style airplanes generally are tail heavy when using the recommended engine; I fitted my H9 27% Extra initially with an OS 160, and had to put the battery ALONGSIDE the engine to balance the model. Later, I tried a couple of 50CC gasoline engines, which required moving the rudder servo to the tail with the battery right at the CG. I finally ended up with an OS BGX-1 3500 in there, and other than moving the battery forward a bit the balance was perfect.

With this airplane, I went right for the overkill... There are all sorts of ways to move necessary components around to achieve balance, without adding extra weight. Or, you can use beefier (and heavier) components in the critical area, which adds weight... but it isn't DEAD weight.

I expect my Katana to be on the nose-heavy side, due to the big engine. I have plans on how to deal with this.

If it comes out tail heavy... well, I don't want to think about that. I do have a Plan B for such a contingency (smaller/lighter engine), but I would REALLY rather not go there.

.
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:12 PM
  #70  
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

Put a saito fg-17 with ignition mounted on engine box. This only required moving the battery around to balance.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:51 AM
  #71  
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

Here's an update for those interested.

She's coming along nicely; I just glued in the horizontal stabs. All there is left to do is attach the elevators and rudder, set up the elevator linkages, set up and install the gear/wheel pants, and then I can put it all back together and check the balance; at which time I'll decide where to put the rudder servo and battery. Then, do the rudder linkage accordingly, and the finishing details. I should have all that accomplished by the end of the week-end; we have been getting biblical rain here since Tuesday, with more forecast through Sunday, so its great "building" weather...

As for flying it... well, that's a ways off. I still want to check out this 2.4 radio system in a test mule first. I have that one ready to go, but with the amount of rain we've had, its going to take a week or more for the field to even start drying out once it stops pouring.

BTW... the Tru-Turn spinners came in, and everything fits great. I did have to cut down the 10-32 bolt that secures the spinner cone to the jam nut quite a bit. It depends on your jam nut; the threaded portion of that bolt is 25mm long, and I had to cut it back to 18mm before it would tighten properly without butting against the prop shaft. These spinners are typical Tru-Turn exemplary quality. I haven't put the engine back on the model yet, but I have no doubt it will look terrific. Those of you following that part of it, the APC 15X6, APC 14X4W, and APC 15X4W all required the "wide cut" spinner. The Graupner 14X7 required the "120 cut". Those are the four props I intend to try, although I'm going to be careful with the Graupner because the manual advises to avoid too much airspeed. My hinge lines are all sealed (or will be; the kit even provides material for this purpose), but these control surfaces are HUGE proportional to the wings and stab.

So, barring any complications, by Sunday I should have some pics and balance information. My 91 Surpass weighs 1.41 pounds according to one scale I have, and 23 ounces according to the other one. That's engine/muffler/prop nuts... no prop or spinner.

.
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:50 AM
  #72  
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

I used to like the graupner 14x7 for sport aerobatics, made a cool sound too when getting rpm up on a 4 stroke
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:27 PM
  #73  
LSP972
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

Okay... good news, and bad.

The good news is, she will come out right in the middle of the specified weight range; which is 6.60-7.50 pounds.

The completed airframe, with everything mounted and buttoned down except the battery, receiver, and rudder linkage, weighs six pounds and three ounces. The battery weighs 5.2 ounces, so, with it and the rudder linkage in place she should be right at, or a tad over, seven pounds wet.

The bad news is, she is still a bit tail heavy even with that too-large engine; note the position of the battery, just behind the gear (and well ahead of the CG) with the model balancing. That means, no moving the rudder servo to the tail. BTW, the rudder is NOT touching the wall in that photo, although such appears to be the case. Its a simple optical delusion...

What a bummer; I truly despise doing a cable pull-pull linkage, but life goes on. However, I think it important to note that, going by this and other reports, this model is indeed inherently tail heavy, so you should plan accordingly. The only non-stock items in this model are the wing retaining bolts; I used steel 3mm hex bolts instead of the supplied nylon ones. Everything else airframe-related came straight out of the kit box. Servos are all Futaba; 9252s on the ailerons, 9650s on the elevators, a 9151 on the rudder, and an old S5101 on throttle. The battery is a HydriMax 2000mAh five cell pack. Receiver will be a 617S. Right now, she's wearing an APC 15X6, but I will be trying other props as outlined in an earlier post. I believe my decision to go with a 2" spinner was vindicated; I'm quite pleased with the way she looks.

Still got a bit of finish work to do, but that won't take long. No idea when I'll get her up; this isn't exactly the time of year to expect cooperation from the weather.

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Old 01-26-2013, 03:53 PM
  #74  
LSP972
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

First flights today. Reader's Digest version... for a little airplane, this model is simply spectacular.

She took NO trim adjustments. I was finding that hard to believe, until I let her fly the length of the field hands-off, at half throttle; straight as an arrow. No wind, of course; it was a perfect day for a maiden flight. I think this has more to do with the excellent design and execution of the model, more than my ability to set one up... although I was very careful to ensure everything was aligned, etc.

Be advised... no, be WARNED... the tail control surfaces on this airplane are incredibly sensitive and powerful. I started out with one inch throws (just under the suggested "low" rate) on the elevators and ailerons, and almost two inches on the rudder; with 25% exponential. She was quite twitchy and uber-responsive to pitch and yaw; roll was nothing to get alarmed about. My first attempt at a four point roll was... really ugly. The tail was bouncing around like a dervish during the rudder and elevator inputs. Part of the problem was the 12Z radio; the sticks are so smooth and light, I was over-controlling big time. On the second flight, I upped the expo to 50%. Much better, but I will take out some throw on the elevators anyway. The added expo slowed the ailerons down to where I want them, so I'll leave them alone.

She did great on the CG test... pull to a 45 degree upline at full throttle, hold it for a bit, then roll inverted. The nose didn't start to drop until over two seconds of inverted flight. This was with the tank maybe 2/3 full, so that's perfect for me. I had balanced her at the suggested 4.5 inch mark, so that's a good starting point.

She's a floater. I neglected to bring my other props and spinner, so all flights today were with the 15X6 APC. Tomorrow I'll try the 15X4W APC; that should slow her down a bit at idle, but I suspect I'll want to create a "landing condition" where the ailerons are slightly reflexed up (with a bit of up elevator) to force her down. I had to go around twice on my first attempts to land her.

No bad habits that I saw; on my few attempts up high to make her drop a wing, I was unsuccessful. She just mushed ahead and sank. However, do not take that as gospel. Your airplane may react differently. Didn't get into checking for any control coupling today; that's for later.

IOW, two big thumbs up for this puppy. I am VERY pleased with her; she is an honest airframe that is right up there with the best build quality and finish I've seen yet.

Now, all that said... keep this in mind. This airplane is intended to be thrashed in 3D. I don't do that sort of flying, so my control throws are dialled WAY back. If you set it up with the book throws and take off in high rate, unless you are VERY good you're likely to over-control and dump it.

Also, the wheel pant attachment per the book is totally unsuitable for grass; they won't last more than a few landings. I beefed mine up substantially, with an extra fixing screw and a support pad (that holds the axle and therefore keeps the pant from flexing) on the outboard inside of each pant. I think one of mine is loose already; I'm not going to mess with this, and plan to remove the pants at the first sign of trouble.

And on that topic, ground handling is superb. Our grass needed cutting, but it was typical "winter height", so the small foam wheels handled it okay.

This model is definitely a keeper. I intend to buy another one and throw the box on the stash pile for a rainy day, etc.
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:20 PM
  #75  
LSP972
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Default RE: Katana 50 by Hangar 9

If anyone is interested, I have a dozen flights on the model now. Still got a big grin.

The 15X4W APC did the trick for slowing it down on approach... in dead calm air. If there's any wind over the wings, she will still want to float. The "landing condition" mentioned above fixed that, but BE SURE you are plenty high when you flip that switch for the first time. I had way too much reflex on the ailerons, and she dropped like a stone. Its a fine-tuning thing; took me three adjustments to get it right, on both elevator and ailerons.

I'm seeing a bit of squirrelyness in the rudder; the tail wags a bit coming out of some manueveurs. Not sure what's causing it, but its one of two things... either my pull-pull cables aren't tight enough, or the rudder is flexing. The second problem is also an issue with this model's big brother, the H9 27% Extra 260. Frank Baity figured out a fix for it; slot a piece of carbon fiber pushrod and glue it onto the TE of the rudder. Cures the problem completely. My cables seem right, and it darn sure isn't the servo being over-stressed (got a 9151 there), so I'm thinking the rudder needs that stiffening of the TE.

Keep in mind this isn't a horrible problem; just an annoying one.

And my reinforcement of the wheel pants is holding up so far. I had a couple of good 'bounces' trying to get it to stay on the ground during the first flights, but they held. Now that I've got this puppy figured out, they have a much easier life. Absolutely NO problem in the grass; I haven't seen the first indication she wants to nose over... ground handling is superb. If you fly from a cow pasture, then you might have problems. But from your basic club-maintained grass strip, no worries.

All in all, a great model. Its so smooth, I forget I'm flying a little airplane and let it get too far away. I lost orientation on it today; couldn't tell which direction it was headed. Then I realized how far away it was. Got it back okay, but what a wake-up call...

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