nitro wing

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I fly coaxials

repsol83

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zach.... I'm by no means an expert but I'm not an idiot... I'm just talking through my issue and open to suggestions... I'm not going to run out and do crap on a whim because some random internet personality tells me to do something

on another note....

I swapped out the servo's and these are much better... but... don't think it fixed the whole issue... I only really got a flight and a half on it... seems like a little bit of left rudder mix would help... and then the screw holding the control horn on vibrated out of the left elevator servo during the second flight....

I am quite positive this plane was set up for 2 elevator servo's... the elevator is connected... but nowhere near stiff enough to be operated by one servo.

second... I did buy this plane used... but from a reliable builder and pilot. the plane has also been flown by andrew jesky and he said it flew well and autographed it.

it definately flew better with the new servo.. but still had a little kick... which truley may just be wingstall.

nitro wing

My Feedback: (1)

Its best to start from the basics.

Check the incidences on all surfaces, -+ 1 degree will make trim problems.
Is the plane trimmed OK or did you have to add excessive subtrim to any surface?
Are the ailerons/elevators centered when trimmed for flight or have added mix or trim to correct neutral flying?
Check the wings, ailerons, stab and fuse for any twist or washout created from storage or repairs or temp changes. Make sure all is squared off and measure twice.
Check that no mix was added in the radio, where elevator may activate some rudder deflection.
With big deflections. 40-60% or more expo is ideal.
Do lateral balance, many skip this step, it will matter.
Seal the hinge gaps.

Once the above is satifactory, only then play with the CG, often 1/4 or 1/2 inch shifts will make very noticable changes for the good or worse.
Often just little things can make huge improvements, cover as much as possible.
Load test the ailerons too.

Having the elevator connected on 2 servos is a potential problem.
I would be inclined to split them completely.
Make sure the hinges are not pulling out anywhere.

Can you post a vid of deflections on ground and a quick in flight outcome of the snap?

repsol83

My Feedback: (3)

i will verify the incidencse on all surfaces... but the plane flew almost perfect. I believe I added 3 clicks of up elevator in my trim, and one click left. virtually no subtrim.
there is zero mix in the radio

no visible or measurable damage to the plane or warping

I'm running 50% expo on high rates... and that gets pretty close to 45 degree deflection. but Ido not have to be on high rates for the pitch and roll to occur.

I'll need to look more into this lateral balance... I have never done that on any plane I have owned.

hinges were sealed crappy with scotch tap... will be re sealing them with clear monocote very soon.

I did find an interesting problem last night when really looking closely at it.. and the top two higes on the rudder actually seem loose... there is a tiny bit of play up there that Inever noticed before.

the elevator is connected with carbon fiber... but the elevators are able to move in opposite directions... it is not stiff by any means. so I have to believe this plane was ment to have 2 elevator servo's

i wll be putting in new hitec 985's in the ailerons as well

Iwill try and get a video as soon as possible...

the other interesting thing.. and maybe its just getting used to a different airplane... but I was doing a flat spin and everytime I want to come out of it it wants to drop to the right and do one extra roll/spin on the way out than what I am expecting it to do.

thanks for all the inpur nitro... im going to figure out exactly where the cg on this plane is supposed to be...

nitro wing

My Feedback: (1)

Sounds lke you have most of it cleared up. I would not worry about a bit of play on the rudder hinge, its common with most robart or flat style hinges.

I would do the lateral balance and maybe move the CG forward 1/2 inch and fly it again.
Some planes will give you an extra spin, especially with an aft CG. Its a bit scary when it happens, when down low.

Whats the weight? is there anything extra you dont really need in there? like smoke etc?

nitro wing

My Feedback: (1)

Try 16mm or 6.3 inches
I prefer to check inverted and at the fuse, simple finger test should work on a plane this size.
I'm thinking a DLE 30 with 2 battery packs is really pushing the ideal wing loading, but its one of the recomended powerplants.
Are you over 11 pounds?

repsol83

My Feedback: (3)

16mm or 6.3 inches from...?

nitro wing

My Feedback: (1)

the front of wing (leading edge) at root or fuse, you should be on or just ahead of the wing tube, not beyond at this time.

CRFan1

Something must be up with either the incidence or the elevator set up cause I have a Slick with a DLE 30 and have flown a friends and niether of ours snaps out in any way. I can wall it without issue. I also use One elevator servo and one battery to power everything for a light set up (10.5 pounds). SO something is up....

zacharyR

My Feedback: (5)

shocking this guy is saying the same thing i said , shocking he's not on the true root cuase of bad battarys

nitro wing

My Feedback: (1)

Zach

You are a such a freaking idiot, but you put a smile on my face everytime you post
Thank you for being zachidiot

repsol83

My Feedback: (3)

so I made a video tonight to show how it kicks to the right hard on elevator input....  still....

so I  gave the controls over to my old man to fly around... prob about a 10-15mph wind...   he trimmed the throttle a little low and killed the motor... turned down wind... tried to get back upwind and stalled... and toasted the plane....  so I guess we can stop debating why it was kicking to the right....   all I know is I need to see if I can find a replacement fuse for the 70" slick...  or start looking for a new kit...   I could probably repair this one... its actually a pretty clean break at the fire wall, and ripped the landing gear off....    wings are fine... elevator and tail are fine just the fire wall broke out...

but I don't want to fix a plane that had this nasty quirk... the more I was flying it (only had 4 flights on it)  the more the quirk was evident... and I was not a fan....

anyone know where to get a 70" slick fuse... (not the 71")

nitro wing

My Feedback: (1)

Bummer.
I'd likely replace it too, huge amount of choices out there for a 30cc
Where was the CG?

SitNFly

My Feedback: (54)

That's funny, I don't care who you are.......

nitro wing

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OK, I only did once, OK twice, but thats all

kerwin50

I'd fix it sell it and buy another one

repsol83

My Feedback: (3)

Well I ended up rebuilding the plane... just for the hell of it until I find something different... still has the same quirk...

I was going to pull one servo off.. but when I have the servo off the elevators don't act like they are connected.... the side without the servo can move independently from the other side. I'm assuming thats not supposed to be the case. so I am leaving both servo's on it.

Going to try and play with the amount of deflection on the right side elevator... .maybe if Itake a couple of degrees out of it I can even out the snap quirk...

just going to look for a good 50cc plane and have this one to dick around with.

djmp69

One thing to keep in mind, too much elevator (relative) on a nose heavy plane will cause a snap at certain speeds, at certain speeds of elevator input, and in dives. The thing to remember is it doesn't depend on the way you set your balance point in the CGrange to fit your flying styleit all comes down to how your plane is balanced vs wing loading, and how your throws are set.

Couple cases in point. I have a King Kobra and an Edge 540 that both exhibited the same characteristic. Both very different airplanes, both did the same thing. Now, on the Edge, there was little Icould do because I had an engine on there that was WAY bigger than spec'd (a 1.08 on a .60 size bird). Even though I'd balanced the plane "tail heavy" for 3D, the wing saw the plane as too heavy overall for the spec'd wing loading. Now, I could pop into a wall with this plane really well, but if Iwas too fast on the elevator, it would snap to one side. Iadded a tad of expo, and the snapping thing diminished a whole lot.

On the King Kobra, I had the "correct" sized engine, but balanced the plane "nose heavy" to kinda cheat in certain maneuvers. Again, if I yanked on the elveator too fast, especially in loops, the plane would snap. I got tired of this snapping and didn't want to cheat anymore, manned up, balanced the plane neutral and learned how to do those certain maneuvers the proper way. After taking the extra weight off the firewall, guess what happened? The snapping disappeared on low rates. Now Istill kept my high rates the same, so of course in high rates the snapping was still there if I got on the elevator too fast, BUT, it dramatically decreased. The plane was way more stable and actually more fun to fly.

Now I'm not saying you have your plane balanced wrong, not at all. Just another thing to consider. When an airplane get too heavy for it's specified wing loading, "funny" things start to happen, usually snapping types of things. Also don't forget P Factorwhich basically means that when the prop "disc" angles away from the main line of travel, the downward swinging blade has more pull. Depending on your throttle input and power plant (including prop size), this could mean that your right wing would speed up and get more lift, OR, it could actually mean the down swingin blade has more bite and slows down adding to the torque phenom. And it doesn't take much variance for either to happen. Example, Knife Edge Coupling, which is more evident on certain kinds of planes and/or setups.

warhawk demon

My Feedback: (1)

repsol83  have you ever figured it out? I have Seagull extra 260 with a 71 inch wing. I put a DLE 30 on it and have the very same problem.
i started out with all good servos. mine is so bad i dont fly it low to the ground to give me room to recover from it.

kerwin50

I have a goldwing mx 2 30 ccer and I don't have this problem
it's hard to believe if AJ flew this plane she's act like this.
My elev joiner wire was much stiffer but I'm now using solar d 770's
while getting a 50 ccer may change the issue I think a new plane in general will.
There is somthing funky going on as this is not typical of a 3dhs plane.
Just what does your plane weigh.
And of course I'm sure you checked your lateral balance.
Of course if you have one servo moving faster or is weaker then it could follow the problem.
I know of several people using a single elevator servo but you need a really stiff joiner.
Also make sure your not cross coupling when you pull on the stick.
Good luck