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Capiche 140 EX and IC version

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Old 09-11-2003, 01:34 AM
  #1
grahamd1
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Default Capiche 140 EX and IC version

I've asked around and no one seems to know where or how it got deleted, the best I can do is copy the old thread from the old site back here. (Graham)

Capiche

Through other threads there has been some interest about the new
Capiche 140 ex, and particularly the new E powered one due to be
test flown in the next day or so...
So to avoid the other threads getting side tracked I have set up this
one to provide a discussion and feedback base for those that fly and
see the new model...
Some basic stats...
2M x 2M model for Artistic Aero / 3D Freestyle
Typical power plant YS 120 / YS 140 and the like
AUW 9.5 - 10.25 lbs
Plug in wings and tail
Who is flying it at the moment...
Ali Machinsky, 2002 British Freestyle Champ... Powered by YS 140L
Dave Stephens, 2000 British Freestyle Champ... Powered by Hacker
C5013XL 6.7:1.
The E Power C140 will inevitably attract some attention, and in a
couple of days we will no doubt find out how it flies…. The Baron has
done another super job of putting this first kit version together, and
we are all a bit excited about how it will peform…
A little more info on the Electric 140ex.. It has been set up to run on
80 Kokham 340 SHD cells wired in 8 series - 10 parallel, to produce
32 volts, with a max discharge current of 100amps, although current
set up is drawing 58amps at full power, which is 1400watts. It is
likely that an additional 20 cells will be required for optimum
performance, but with a 22x12 turning at 4600 rpm which should
generate approx 13.5lbs thrust, it is hoped that this should be
sufficient for initial test flights and the forthcoming competition this
weekend.
The pilots that have flown the model will no doubt be able to answer
any question as I hope will I have had the opportunity to fly the IC
powered one a few times…but I have to say the prospect of the E
powered version is very exciting…
FYI… there is no difference between the aircraft… the original
intention for Daves C140ex was for YS power until he had a change of
plans about a month ago… so there is nothing special about the
airframe for E power…
Meantime here are a couple of shots of both the IC and E……
C140ex’s…
Pictures will appear in a later post

Sprink

Plug in tail...
Does that mean just the stab or the whole tail section?
Definately want one, just wondering whether I will have to buy a new
car...

The Boy

just ran the motor in the garden, it will pull out of my hands all the
way through the battery cycle, not loads of extra power yet bet its a
start.
Pictures will appear in a later post

DiabloKid

thats a beutiful bird. Somone should try to find a distributor in the
US. Im sure it would do well here

arnie

"thats a beutiful bird. Somone should try to find a
distributor in the US. Im sure it would do well here"

We'll I reckon Dave might have something to say about that!!!!!!
Seriously, Malc its a babe ... Do you rekon a Dingo will shake that
lightweight airfame too much?

YNOT

Is it set up for a pipe in the fuse?
Great looking bird. Wish my Diablo had those ailerons.

Capiche

Arnie, Dingo, I dont see it bring a problem if properly mounted..
YNOT, The model has not been designed for internal pipe but with the
depth of the fuz and with plug in wing its certainly an option for the
builder Id say..
Ailerons... I can tell you they are excellent, without being OTT... i.e.
no issues at higher speeds and for smoother pattern style figures.
Now I know its hardly what you want to see after the last couple of
pics but he sent it to me and I thought that since he looks a bit like a
bunny caught in headlights I would post it !
Enter stage left... THE BOY !
Pictures will appear in a later post

edible_engine

sweet, i love this plane, i want mine!
__________________
Regards,
Ian

Capiche

Folks...
We need a BIG FINGERS CROSSED AND GOOD LUCK for the BOY..
C140ex -E gets its maiden flight tonight all being well.....
I dunno if I can stand the suspenders...
err suspense !

shadowspring

Malcolm that is really one good looking bird. Excellent job on the 140.
I like it much better than the 50. Don't know why, I guess the lines
are more visible. Good luck in the comp with it.
__________________

Capiche

Shadow...
Mostly pics at the moment, more going up next week, and the site
needs a revamp to give the 140 its own home... its kinda piggy back
off the 50 pages at the moment...
Ahh to find the time !
for now if you have a specific Q I will try to answer it... but there is
some FAQ, Feedback, Pics, and news in the Archives about the 140
included amongst the 50 stuff (clearly separated).. so maybe take a
glance at that too ?
__________________

Baron UK

Test flight is gonna be in the next hour!!!!!!!!!!
Not sure what to think!!!!!
Wish I was there.
Luke remember that Low pass at Sandown???
Now is worse Cacking it!!
under 10lbs electric!!!
Some models 2m x2m struggle to get under 5k for comps with IC!!!
Should know the result soon

Capiche

thanks Gerald... (Gerald has deleted his prior post)
well you were interested in the model.... what do you think of it in the
flesh !?

Hercmate

Archie,
Looks extremely nice! Bring on the sale of my model collection for
funds! Just one question (its bound to get asked at some point)...for
those of us who can't push to a YS140 whats a Moki 135 gonna be
like? Any plans to do such thorough motor testing and setups as with
the 50?
Andy
Al

Capiche

GW... US Importer.. Its on the list to do...
The YS powered one flying at the moment uses a Hattori pipe I
bleieve, unless Ali changed it recently, which is rubber mounted under
the fuz, not inside. You are right about noise restrictions to a large
extent..
Andy
I dont feel it is necessary to do the same engine tests.. there are
many more of this type of model out there and as such the testing
has been done... was a bit diff with the C50...
The answer to the question really is you can put whatever you want in
it... the installed model before engine would probably be around 7-
8lbs mark so its simply a case of the maths...
Baron will be able to answer better about the AUW without motor..
The ultimate Q becomes.... what will it fly on and what will it compete
at high level on... It would fly okay on a supertigre 90 but you would
have to get the weight forward somehow...
Basically any motor with the power output on and around the 120-
140 fourstroke (descent one!) range..
or of course e power !
Ive not heard anything frmo the Boy yet... and its getting dusk here !

Baron UK

It flies!!!!
Ali reckons its to light! I told him "B******s
Needs a bigger prop pitch wise or more cells the later is not an option
so close to the Freestyle comp. Seeing as they come from the USA.
Bishop Power btw
My choice ultimately would be more volts but!!!
Just made the call and will have a 22"x14" and YES!! a 24" x14"
prop for Friday. Blimey thats a big prop
The Boy informs me it "Prophangs" and is a little nose heavy but
needs more forward speed. They are attaching Pound coins to the
carbon skid to address the cg!!!!!
Typical Dave I wouldnt be suprised to see a hex wrench hanging off
the back
Pack was being recharged ready for a dusk flight.
Thats now.
Baron
Hence the extra pitch.



Capiche

wow... we must have been typing at the same time !
Excellent news pretty much.... considering how close to the comp..
but then Dave does like to make things exciting..
I wondered about the forward pull at such rpm... as you say in the
timeframe left more pitch is the only option.. hopefully it will not over
cook it torque wise for some of the 3D...
Ultimately more cells defintaly seems to be the answer... I think we
are agreeed on that..
No doubt the Boy will post when he returns...
Im off for din dins and a bit of tv so Ill catch y'all later for some more
news hopefully.
big smilies on the Island !!
__________________

Baron UK

Yes Archie you are right the huge prop is causing side thrust
problems!!
With more cells high on the list of "Things to do" an adjustment of
right thrust as a temporary idea might be used . But my preferance
would be more cells smaller prop.Dave has above average rudder
control so he might just live with it for the weekend!!
OH for an extra two weeks
The side thrust applied in cnc will be great for YS120 and 140 etc.

Other choices!! Hercmate:
Os 120, OS bx1, 0s 90fx (if you can get CG!!??) Irvine 150 (Not sure
on that one) Super tiggy 20\ 23 ,Moki 135 ? Moki 180 (all the bits
in the boot on this one)

Baron UK

I think its awesome! An open tunnel in the bottom for a long
muffler/pipe will be even better.
Easily achieved GW.
The bottom is only 3mm balsa except the first 50mm which is a
Marine ply \liteply sandwich to take U\C
It's dark outside? Not heard anything
The boy will be along I am sure

arnie

I hope they put all The Boys electric/Lith poly cells posts back on. This is cutting edge technology....and a path we may find all of us on in the future. I'm sure it was of interest to a lot of people.

Dave, perhaps you can post the results of last nights test flight here.

The Boy

nope plane survived but my computer crashed badly!! still ain't got it
sorted properly (computer that is)
as for the plane, power was good, had a 9 minute flight with plenty of
power to climb out of torque rolls etc it just seemed to slow in
forward flight, bit like a car stuck in first gear, you can fly along at
50% throttle quite slowly then pull up and carry on going vertical at
the same speed. this may sound cool but at 50% throttle the plane is
not flying fast enough to feel "crisp".
i neglected to check the CG and it was way nose heavy so a 1500ma
nicad (futaba of course) was taped to the tail wheel along with about
3oz of coins and the second flight was much better, but a bit to tail
heavy (about 2 1/2" behind the spar) and it got a bit lively ( i did
some flips to low and it did an extra one by itself for good measure
with 1 1/2 turns of an inverted flat spin thrown in before i could suss
out what was happening) Ali closed his eyes and assumed the
position but we got away with it. i will move the RX nicad to the tail
and see what that does.
all in all quite successful and it only gets better from here!
bigger prop on the way courtesy of the baron more pitch more amps
yes please!!
Dave

Welsh3D

Dave. You remember me and ali said the Funtana S was very slow, I
had a fly of it tonight and tried out pattern stuff with reduced elevator
and to be honest it isn't really that slow at all, it's just strange to get
used to such a light plane.
I think if you stick at it you might begin to think differently. These
ultra light 3d ships sure aint racers though!
good luck with it, look forward to see/hearing it go!

The Boy

when i say slow i mean SSLLOOWW 50% throttle was just above stall
speed its not a funtana and flys nothing like it, it has much less wing aria
than a funtana, just needs more pitch i don't think i went more than
25MPH the hole flight oh except for landing of course when i switched
the windmill off... then it went faster

Baron UK

Half throttle would 2,300rpm!! My Ys ticks over @ that!!
Must have been weird. First thing in morning I will get props sorted.
You sure you dont want a 20"x 14 or a 20" x 16"??
I bet knife edge was "High Alpha"
Hercmate forgot a couple of real contenders in the motor stakes
OS 140 and 160 2 st
Last thing. I bet breaking effect was good in down lines

Hercmate

quote:
Hercmate forgot a couple of real contenders in the motor stakes
Wasn't really thinking of going OS to be honest! Obviously I'd love to
put a YS 140 in but I feel my abilities don't justify the expense. At
least not yet anyway! So I just wanted to see what will get 75% of
the way to a YS for 50% of the cost. Them OS's are pricey! But Moki
180 on 9.5lb plane surely too much - or is there not such a thing?!
What props would you swing ith the YS and the Moki something near
18x6?
Glad the test went well, nice one chaps!
Andy

The Boy

oh nearly forgot I added another 2 Deg of Right Thrust

I have changed a few specs as well, I was using a 8s10p battery (80 cells) but i am now using a 9s10p battery (you guessed it 90 cells!) and i am changing from a 22 x 12 smart wood prop to a 20 x 16 APC (standard prop) bit heavy but i could not get an electric one

so hopefully the amps will be up the volts shouldn't drop (added another 4 volts) and speed should be up (16" pitch)

next installment when i have flown it again

Capiche

Sprink
"I'll re ask my question.

It comes with a plug in wings and tail. Is it the whole tail end or just the stab and elevators that are plug in? Anyone know?

I may need a new car to fit one of these in!

Cheers."

Sprink in answer to your question....

Its the stab / tail plane only that is plug in although in this case rather than removable the tail has been slide onto carbon tubes and glued into position so you make it removeable if you want to I guess...


Hercmate

So......engines. Where did we get to? The Baron suggested Moki 135, 180 OS 140 and 160 and a few others. What 2S do you think will work best? As I said before I'd like to achieve 75% of the performance of the YS for 50% of the cost. Tho leafing thro JE's website a Moki 180 and muffler is ÂŁ250! And the YS is ÂŁ355 from Probuild. Is it really worth the ÂŁ100 extra for someone like me? (Son, you're good but not that good... )

The Boy,
That is a shed load of right thrust! Not ever seen a model like that! Whatever works I s'pose............

Baron UK

Have you ever run a 20x16 with 2horsepower plus??

Must kick like two Mules

Herc.

You wont get 75% of a YS for 50% cost!!

Go look at cost of motors and then rethink.


Capiche

righty ho then...

so, The Boy has done some tweaking, decided hes a little short on cells but has been able to add another 10 in paralell for more test flights tomorrow...

I guess we will hear more then...

I must admit I get a bit lost with all this leccy techno stuff... but I am definately learning


Baron UK

try ten in series

The Boy

your both wrong!! and Archie is more right than wrong!!

what i have done is made another batch of ten cells wired in parallel to give 4volts and 3400ma. i have then wired these in series with the main pack (8 batches of 10 parallel cells wired in series together) giving me 9series 10 parallel

got it!!

the main problem with doing this is that you have to match each individual cell to within .03 of a volt before you mate them

as for side thrust, i used to use 5 degrees with a OS 140 and 16 x 16 prop in pattern so i don't think this is excessive (its only 5 deg now, it was 3 deg. there is a lot of wind spiraling its way around the fuselage and hitting the LHS of the fin (viewed from behind)

Dave

Sprink

Thanks Archie, looks like a new car is needed...

Hercmate, per the J'en website the Moki 135 will give 9400 rpm with an APC 16x8. That is what I was getting with my YS 120 FZ before I changed to a 17x8. Sounds like a good option to me.

Luke 3D returns

I think it would be great for a Funtana but a bit heavy to have as a first choice for this plane. I would have got a 135 for the capiche140ex if i could go back in time.

If The Boy gets less than 20lbs out of his electric setup, i may be the only one with the most powerfully engined capiche 140!should be laugh.hehe

The Boy

flew again today, got the motor set up perfectly, i can Torque roll then punch out no problem and im only taking 55Amps static at full throttle using a 20 x 14 airflow wood prop. Had 2 x 9 minute flights today

Capiche

me too

we have collected some valuable data, otherwise unexpected with Daves approach.... and will now work on tweaking the design for optimum and the there is the matter of kit consideration... but thats a way off and I dont want to be misunderstood...

i spoke to cplr today, whilst he felt JS was impressive at WC, the power and thrust authority was still not there but he was impressed nonetheless... although he acknowledged the cost..wind was an issue apparently.....

He also commented though that it is difficult to be certain how effective E F3A was from this because JS is such a good pilot and he would make anything look good..... fair I spose...

The Boy and JS are cutting edge as Arnie said and who knows where we will go in the next couple of years before the next WC.

Bring it ON !

Capiche

YS power still rules...

Daves Elec version is proving to be excellent but at the moment the YS 140L powered machine of Ali Machinsky has the edge............ PERHAPS !


Sprink

Second post from the Freestyle champs, and seeing the Capiche 140s of Ali and The Boy fly against some of its competition was very interesting.

What I could see was that this plane was perfect for this type of competition. Easier to look at the competition and see where it was lacking:

Funtana (I beleive the original version, not the new pro): This went very well, and having such a big wing it could be flown very slowly, which is perfect for this competion. However, the poor knife edge ability really did limit it.

Synergy 140 3D: Again went very well, but you could see that this was primarily a pattern ship with big controll surfaces. It needed to be flown faster for smooth flight. At slow speeds it was very tippy and lacked precision. Also did not like entering walls/parachutes, and seemed to twist out of flat spins. When flown quicker, it flew very precisely.

The Capiche 140 excelled as it was perfectly under control at all speeds due to the thicker wing, and the very tall fuz meant that knife edge was a doddle, especially things like high alpha knife edge elevators.

Seeing The Boy's electric powered verion was fasinating. It lacked the speed available to the IC powered version of Ali's but could easily climb out of a torque roll. Talking of torque rolls, The Boy did one of the smoothest I have ever seen along with a lovely rolling harrier circle about a foot high. I wonder if the smooth power delivery of the hacker helps with this (or whether it is just The Boy being so good).

Ali's flew quicker most of the time and he really worked it to get the most from it. When you see him do an inverted pass at about 2 feet, then snap out of that into knife edge ( ) you realise why he won last year. But to do that he must have complete confidence in the plane.

Yep, definately want one (though it will be a while before I can fly like that!!!). So spent some time chatting with The Baron to see if I can get one.
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Old 09-11-2003, 01:41 AM
  #2
grahamd1
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

Now can someone upload the pictures

Come-on wheres the pictures ?, stop whinning and get the pictures in this thread

Graham
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Old 09-11-2003, 06:17 AM
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

Heres some more







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Old 09-11-2003, 07:20 AM
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

wow[:-], nice photos. i just noticed the stall inducing strips on the root leading edge. very nifty, do they work ,
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Old 09-11-2003, 07:24 AM
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

Stall strips
Yes but dont ask...
The Wing on Daves was an experimental one that didnt work out.... A new set of wings will be made to mathc the ic one..
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Old 09-11-2003, 08:15 AM
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

Speaking to The Baron and The Boy on Sunday, apparently Malcom had tried a different section to see if it was any better. Unfortunately it made it a bit tip stally, so wouldn't do walls or parachutes without trying to snap.

Dave wasn't too impressed with this - Malcom hadn't told him![sm=biggrin.gif] The stall strips solved the problem temporarily for the comp. Dave is getting new wing panels from Malcom which will be based on the original section.
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Old 09-11-2003, 02:24 PM
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

Some more pics
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Old 09-11-2003, 02:56 PM
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

i aint looked on your site or anything yet but can i have some info on this plane price and some specs and would a ys 140 go nice on one???

Dean
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Old 09-11-2003, 03:01 PM
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

it was designed around that
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Old 09-11-2003, 05:12 PM
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

Subscribe dean.. makes life simpler...
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Old 09-11-2003, 07:07 PM
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

Yes hands up. Thought I would be clever and fatten the tip!!

Got it wrong [:@] "To err is human"

New wing on its way!!

Well OK the original wing ready soon.

As the saying goes " If it aint busted DONT fix it"

Dean YS 140 best option for this model ask Ali
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Old 09-15-2003, 06:26 PM
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

Any news?

I have to say that the Capiche revolution has really inspired me again....... I realise how bored I was getting on the rock and getting the chance to fly Malcs 140 and getting into the 50 makes me realise how long it has been since I have flown a descent plane...

Dont get me wrong Ive had alsorts, but nothing as good as the models I used to fly f3a with and that was in 95... and whilst I could just about get a torque roll out of my pattern ship it certainly wasnt for 3D !

The bottom line is that , like those limited number that have seen it or tried it, I WANT a C140ex, badly.... thats nothing but good news for the market.... when I can get a kit, so can you !... and dont worry I will shout when I get it but not before... you might jump the queue !!LOL
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Old 09-16-2003, 03:26 AM
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

Well I hope it doesn't take too long... I managed to crash my Ultimate on Sunday. It is repairable, but still quite a mess, and I'm thinking is it worth it if the engine will be going into the C140 as soon as it is available.

So Archie and The Baron, less time on here please, and more time spent getting it into production!!!
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Old 09-16-2003, 08:00 AM
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

[quote][So Archie and The Baron, less time on here please, and more time spent getting it into production!!! /quote]


you have been told!!
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Old 09-16-2003, 11:22 AM
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

ditto!

Still though its very good to be kept up to date on the development/progress.
Sorry to hear about your ultimate ,Sprink. It was a smart plane.
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Old 10-01-2003, 11:06 AM
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

so..................ive now persuaded my parents to let ME buy one and my dad loves the plane and the way it flies so he's agreeing but whens it out, its now October and ive herd no news yet. any way xmas is here soon (according to shops, seems too long in my standards) and will it be out by then.........
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Old 10-01-2003, 01:05 PM
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

Might be ready by Christmas

Need to hone a few bits!! It all takes time
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Old 10-01-2003, 01:35 PM
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

i can understand that it needs honing but it seemed realy good at the comp, is it just to make it kit buildable if you see wat i meen?
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Old 10-01-2003, 02:12 PM
  #19
Archie
 
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

precisely edible

the flying aspects of the model are well and truly ticked off the list of to do's !

Island Hobbies will share more news on the plans in a week or so.....
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Old 10-01-2003, 02:23 PM
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

is it going to be anouther cnc cut jobby
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Old 10-01-2003, 04:09 PM
  #21
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

Good thing I'm having a clearout, to raise money and make space for it when it comes.
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Old 10-09-2003, 05:41 PM
  #22
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

I'M FLOGGING A MOKI 135 AND PITTS MUFFLER TO HELP FUND A CAPICHE 50 IF ANYBODIES INTERESTED.ITS BARELY RUN IN AND IN PURFECT NICK.ALSO GOT APC AND CARBON PROPS TO SUIT( COULDN'T RESIST BUYING THE CARBON ONES,BUT THEY AINT CHEAP)
IRONIC REALLY ISN'T IT, THAT I AM GETTING RID OF THIS TO BUY A 50 WHEN I SHOULD JUST GET A 140, BUT I'M FED UP GETTING BIG PLANES IN LITTLE CARS! I OUGHT TO CHANGE THE CAR REALLY.ANYWAY, IF ANYONES INTERESTED FOR ABOUT ÂŁ135 LET ME KNOW...
SORRY IN ADVANCE IF I SHOULDNT PUT THIS ON THIS THREAD BUT ITS A SORT OF RELATED.
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Old 10-10-2003, 01:01 PM
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

pm sent JIMBO D
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Old 10-11-2003, 04:22 AM
  #24
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

PM sent to Edible-Engine,,, I think!
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Old 10-25-2003, 02:52 PM
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Default RE: Capiche 140 EX and IC version

Any news Archie (or the Baron)? Are they going to be available before Xmas? And more importantly what about the test kits, have you decided who is getting them yet and when?

I am itching to get my hands on one
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