Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > 3D Flying!
Reload this Page >

Sites for gas setup advice.

Notices
3D Flying! Our 3D flying forum is the ultimate resource for 3D flyers. Also discuss the latest in "4D" flying!

Sites for gas setup advice.

Old 03-16-2013, 10:38 PM
  #1  
Skerts
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Swift Current, SK, CANADA
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Sites for gas setup advice.

Hey there,

Just as the title, I'm looking for some sites that compare different gas model set-ups and options that are available so any that you guys know of would be appreciated.
Basically, I'm about to pull the trigger on my first gas powered model, I'm definitely going for a 30cc with a DLEengine.
I'd just like to do some further reading on the pros and cons of dual power set-ups, IBEC's, opto-kill switches, batteries and regulators - general things like that.
Also, feel free to pay forward some of your own knowledge.

Thanks in advance.
Old 03-17-2013, 06:43 AM
  #2  
acerc
 
acerc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Sunshine state, when it's not raining!
Posts: 8,131
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

You are at one of the best places you can be for the information you are in search of. You just need to do the search. The gas engine forum would be a good place to start. Anything and everything you could possibly want to know has been covered, in great detail, here on RCU.
Old 03-17-2013, 08:11 AM
  #3  
ahicks
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Waterford, Mi/Citrus Springs, Fl
Posts: 3,821
Received 19 Likes on 17 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

Yes, I would say the same thing. Dive in, and if you have any more specific questions fire away!


Regarding batteries/power systems, maybe the best I've seen in one place so far are here:

http://www.hangtimes.com/weightcompare.html

http://www.hangtimes.com/a123rxsetup.html

http://www.hangtimes.com/a123_batter...iants_faq.html


Generic gas info in the sticky/first post in this forum, here:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8673009/tm.htm

Don't try to memorize all that. A lot of it is useless - until such time as you need it. Then you'll find it's a great reference.
Welcome, and best of luck!
-Al
Old 03-17-2013, 11:08 AM
  #4  
Skerts
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Swift Current, SK, CANADA
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

Awesome. Thanks a lot. 
And I knew RCU would be awesome for advice, I was just surprised not to find some sticky's in this sub forum. It didn't even cross my mind to try the gas engine forum so thanks for that advice too. 
Old 03-18-2013, 05:02 AM
  #5  
zacharyR
My Feedback: (5)
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

FG " flying g i a n t s " normaly has alot more giant scale gas airplane pepole on that are more knowlageable
Old 03-18-2013, 06:58 AM
  #6  
BarracudaHockey
My Feedback: (11)
 
BarracudaHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 26,943
Received 341 Likes on 273 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

There's knowlegeable people here

Ask away
Old 03-18-2013, 04:05 PM
  #7  
Skerts
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Swift Current, SK, CANADA
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

Thanks guys. I'll fire away with something specific that is troubling me.
First on all, the plane is 30-35cc size and I'm using a DLE35. I've read that the ignition on the DLE35 supports 4.8v-8.4v and I want to run LiFe batteries which are obviously 6.6v - Can I hook this straight up to the ignition without a regulator? Because I also read that the DLE30 doesn't like to be powered by anything above 5v however I'm not exactly sure what voltage range the DLE30 requires.
Secondly, I want to run an optical kill switch for peace of mind and I'm pretty sure that I want to use a Batshare too (I know some guys think this is overkill with a 30cc but I like the added peace of mind here as well). Now, do you think I should get two LiFe 2100, hook them up to the Batshare and then run my ignition from them too (how is this achieved?) or buy three LiFe batteries, two 2100 for the rx/servos and one1100/1300 for the ignition?

Old 03-18-2013, 05:50 PM
  #8  
ahicks
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Waterford, Mi/Citrus Springs, Fl
Posts: 3,821
Received 19 Likes on 17 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

First, you can run that 8.4v ign. without concern, directly from a LiFe/A123. The 30cc uses an older module that doesn't like much over 6v.

Second if you want to go batshare, go for it! But 2 batteries is twice what you need, and you already know that so I'm not going to try to talk you out of it.

The opti switch is probably going to plug into a jack on your receiver that you are going to control with your landing gear switch. The Rcexl opti comes with directions that once done, will allow you to pull the power for your ign. module from the same place. Otherwise, you can pull power for the module from a Y harness placed anywhere in your wiring. Just pick a place that's handy.
Old 03-18-2013, 05:51 PM
  #9  
acerc
 
acerc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Sunshine state, when it's not raining!
Posts: 8,131
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

If the Dle 35 states it can operate in that range then a regulator is not needed.
You have to run an ignition kill from the reciever. Preferably after a switch or the BEC (any of them) will run the battery down when not in use.The Tech Aero Ultra IBEC is a good one, I have several. As for the battery, nothing wrong with some redundency if that is your likeing. I only run one battery for everything.
Old 03-18-2013, 08:56 PM
  #10  
Skerts
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Swift Current, SK, CANADA
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

Thanks again for the info guys. So here's where I'm at, as I see it:

I'm thinking of running two 2100 LiFe batteries hooked up to a Batshare.
From the Batshare to the receiver (does the smartfly BatShare require two RXports?)
Then a Tech Aero Ultra IBEC (or similar) hooked up to the ignition from the RXright?

A few questions concerning this. Firstly, where does the opti kill fit in, I understand that it hooks up to a switchable RX port but does it also fit between the IBEC and the ignition?
Secondly, How many on/off switches would I need with this set up? Where would they go?
Also, will Ineed a regulator for the hitec digital servo's when using the 6.6v LiFe packs? I know that my RX is good for 6.6v as it's well within the operating range.
Lastly, how many 6-8 minute flights can I expect with this set up running an IBEC?

Thanks again guys, sorry for all the questions but this is helping a lot.
Old 03-19-2013, 03:29 AM
  #11  
ahicks
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Waterford, Mi/Citrus Springs, Fl
Posts: 3,821
Received 19 Likes on 17 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

Not familiar with the batshare wiring - I'm not a fan. You'll need one manual on/off switch for each battery pack as a rule, but again, that may change with the batshare?

You could use an Ultra IBEC, but it's big feature is voltage regulation (for 6v. ign modules), and you don't need that? The 20.00 Rcexl switch will work fine for you.

The servos will be fine.

Regarding flight time, I think it's safe to say you could do a LOT of flying on a single charge, but exactly how much is going to introduce too many variables. The only real way to tell for sure is by noting what it takes to recharge your batteries after a flying session? My bet is you could charge your batteries every other time you go flying? -Al
Old 03-19-2013, 07:05 AM
  #12  
wyo69cowboy
My Feedback: (2)
 
wyo69cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cody, WY
Posts: 758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

I originally had my DLE55 powered Reactor set up with an rx switch/3600mah 6v nimh, and an ignition switch/1400mah 4.8v nimh. Went to this: [link=http://www.valleyviewrc.com/estore/electronics/kill-switches.html]RCEXL kill switch BEC's[/link]. I am using the 6.6v regulating version, though is sounds as if the newer DLE's don't need it, as they are rated up to 8.4v.

I am now using a single 3200mah LiFe pack, which took about 5-6oz's of weight out of the plane(battery/switch). I have used it now for around 60 flights; I set my timer at 15min for a flight. I have carefully monitored battery usage: with digital servos in the plane, and running the ignition as well, I average approx 4-500mah per flight, which gives me 4-6 flights with some margin. The TechAero IBEC is a very highly regarded version as well, for just a few dollars more...
Old 03-19-2013, 07:14 AM
  #13  
wyo69cowboy
My Feedback: (2)
 
wyo69cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cody, WY
Posts: 758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

I am not as familiar with the other setup you're asking about, but here's a possible scenario: Fromeco Wolverine switch(battshare dual switch, highly regarded) with 2 smaller LiFe packs. [link=http://www.fromeco.org/products/04frcwo-430b/]Wolverine[/link] One side of switch/pack to rx; second side of switch/pack to ignition power lead. Regular optikill from rx to ignition. There are many arguments over possible interference of the various setups, but the TechAero has been acknowledged to be fairly safe here, and I've had no issues with the RcEXL BEC kill I've been using either...

Old 03-19-2013, 04:06 PM
  #14  
Skerts
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Swift Current, SK, CANADA
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

I was looking at the Batshare by SmartFly and it looks like it has two inputs and two outputs. Do I have to hook up both outputs to my RX or can I just plug in the one and bundle up the other one? Alternatively, is it possible to wire one of the BatShare outputs to the RX and the other BatShare output to the ignition?
In your current plane, you say that you just run the one battery.. would you recommend this way and I'm just guessing here but are both of the universal outputs on the Hobbico LiFe batteries usuable at the same time? If so, what if I went - one LiFe output to switch to RX and the other LiFe output to switch to ignition - is that possible? Will I still need an IBEC? Although, I do like the peace of mind that two batteries give me so I think I'll still go with the BatShare route but it was just a thought..

Thanks again
Old 03-19-2013, 04:18 PM
  #15  
wyo69cowboy
My Feedback: (2)
 
wyo69cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cody, WY
Posts: 758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

One of the reasons for the dual battery leads is to lessen the current load thru the small wires/connectors we use in our rx systems. They are supposedly good for 3-5A continous, with short bursts beyond that. You can plug a battery(or two) into any spare port on a receiver. The batt share by SmartFly, or the Wolverine switch, are intended to use two batteries, and provide a layer of safety if one battery should fail. They keep the circuits divided between the batts, so a dead one doesn't draw down the other, and you still have power to your rx. If you're not using 2 batts, then there's no need for the batt share.

As far as running one lead from a single battery to the rx, and a second lead from the same battery to the ignition, I believe it has been done, but that opens the possibility of interference. The optically isolated kill switches are supposed to prevent that. Personally, I wouldn't do it that way. I would use either the TechAero BEC or the RCEXL bec kill switches...
Old 03-19-2013, 05:33 PM
  #16  
acerc
 
acerc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Sunshine state, when it's not raining!
Posts: 8,131
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

There is another method of supplying power without jeoprodizing the Rx. Remove the servo power leads from the reciever and install into their own panel. A small battery for the reciever and the main battery (large mah) for the servos. And for a gas airframe the ignition would go to the main battery. This eliminates the risk of losing power to the reciever totally. But of course one would need to put a second reciever battery to the reciever in case the first one died. And one could use a second for the main in case the main died. And don't forget the second reciever in case the first goes south, as well as the second transmitter. Oh, and then there is us ourselves, don't forget the spotter, he can take over when we fail.
Old 03-19-2013, 06:01 PM
  #17  
Skerts
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Swift Current, SK, CANADA
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

Haha thanks Acerc. Lots to take in right there. 
So humour me Acerc, what would you use and how for a 30cc plane?
Honestly, this is my first 'giant' scale plane and I'd like to protect my investment a little rather than risk it. 
And yeah, I understand that the best protection is not to fly it at all but that's not an option so any protection while it's airborne is good by me. 
Besides, I figure that I'm learning right now for the even more appropriately named giant scale airplanes.  
Old 03-19-2013, 06:32 PM
  #18  
acerc
 
acerc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Sunshine state, when it's not raining!
Posts: 8,131
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

LOL Glad you took that the way it was meant, good humor. When I first started in gas I did all the redundant/protection methods recommended. The double batteries, ignition kills, etc. etc, After a couple years with all this extra gear crammed in, and never once useing the onboard kill,and never having the first issue I came to realise I am anal enough about the care and maintenance of my equipment to not need it. And in the couple years since not useing extra anything I feel it is a non neccessity. Use good equipment, sufficient equipment, and do safety checks periodically.
I currently use one battery which feeds through two on/off switches. One for the rx and one for the ign. I use a Tech Aero Ultra IBEC as the regulator for the ign and the litttle LED lets me know there is power to the ign. It also has a radio operated kill, which is set on my radio to shut off under the failsafe. But I do annual checks of everything on every one of my airframes, usually in January the slow month. I can honestly say in the 30 something years I have participated in this hobby I have only had one crash related to equipment failure. And the sad thing was I knew it was coming and flew anyway.
I am not trying to encourage or discourage you or anyone to do or not do anything. Just saying be reasonable in your quest for safety. Five years ago we had very little of the technologies available today and we managed quite well. Not to say we can't use them today, just that we may not really need them.
It's all up to you.
Old 03-19-2013, 08:23 PM
  #19  
Skerts
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Swift Current, SK, CANADA
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

Thanks acerc for your words of advice, I really do appreciate it. My decision for the power system now kind of hangs in the balance because it is only a 30cc plane. I do feel like I want to run two batteries though and I feel like I'd like to use an IBEC instead of a standalone ignition battery.
In your opinion how should I go about making this work? I should mention that I have a Spektrum DX7S with an 8 channel RX and my plane requires 6 servo's which leaves me with Bind, Gear and the AUX3 ports.
And as far as I can tell, the SmartFly BatShare has two inputs and two outputs so thats each battery to the inputs but for the outputs, should I run one to the RX and the other output to the IBEC? Or should I run both BatShare outputs to the RX and then plug the IBEC into the RX (is this even possible? haha).
Thanks again, I am learning a lot aha.
Old 03-19-2013, 10:36 PM
  #20  
Skerts
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Swift Current, SK, CANADA
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

Ok so upon further reading, I'm seriously considering your method.. Aha. 
Here's the plan.. 

LiFe battery to switch to RX
RX gear port for Tech Aero Ultra IBEC acting as IGN power and kill switch. 

How does that sound? Would I need another switch on there or is the one after the battery sufficient? 
Also there doesn't seem to be a power input for the IBEC so I'm guessing that it takes power directly from the RX, is this correct? 
Old 03-20-2013, 03:20 AM
  #21  
acerc
 
acerc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Sunshine state, when it's not raining!
Posts: 8,131
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

Sounds good to me. Simple but effective. I do like a switch between the IBEC and Rx so the Rx can be turned on seperately without powering the ignition.

There is one thing you need not to forget. No matter which way you end up with when useing LiFe batteries you need to do a timed flight, recharge the batteries and use the amount of mah replaced to estimate your total flight time available from your battery. LiFe batteries can not be measured like we do the others for available usage left.
Old 03-20-2013, 06:00 AM
  #22  
Skerts
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Swift Current, SK, CANADA
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

That's good to know about LiFe batteries. Thank you. 
Which charger would you recommend? I had my eye on the Triton but is that too much charger for me? 
Also I think you're right about a desperate switch for the IGN, it means I can set servos and stuff without having the ign draining the system. 
Old 03-20-2013, 06:42 AM
  #23  
BarracudaHockey
My Feedback: (11)
 
BarracudaHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 26,943
Received 341 Likes on 273 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

Cell Pro's are the best A123/LiFe chargers.
Old 03-20-2013, 06:44 AM
  #24  
wyo69cowboy
My Feedback: (2)
 
wyo69cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cody, WY
Posts: 758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

Not trying to start an argument, but putting the ignition on a switch, separate from the IBEC, defeats its purpose. It IS the switch, all by itself. I have my LiFe battery behind the rear canopy hatch former for CG purposes; it doesn't come out easily. Therefore, I always leave the battery plugged in to the rx. It never drains the battery; you can turn the plane on and perform regular tx/rx functions without turning the ignition on: the IBEC comes with a red LED that tells you when the ignition is powered. I've been using this setup now for about a year, and it works great

Ace is correct on the LiFe battery usage; you cannot effectively load test them, so you have to measure, via recharge, what your setup uses, which I mentioned earlier (4-500mah usage per flight).
Old 03-20-2013, 08:07 AM
  #25  
acerc
 
acerc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Sunshine state, when it's not raining!
Posts: 8,131
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Sites for gas setup advice.

wyo you are absolutely correct in that the Ultra does not need a switch. I use one because my Futaba radio has a servo test function that I use. During that function it cycles all channels hence my extra switch so the ignition is not cycled on and off. Else wise one is not needed. Good catch. And I as well do not remove my battery for charging. I made an adapter for the balance plug to run through a typical switch charge port.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.