Rhilluk

mines got a 12x6 as I'm breaking it in, doesn't need anymore down, just been flying it and it tracks straight up on the climb, but it pulls over to left while in a vertical climb, going to use a 14x4 in future.

Johnnylightning

Try 3° with the 14x4...that should get you in the 'hood.

Dangerous Dan

My Feedback: (1)

All,
I started building my flip 3D last night here is my setup, Please make any comments/suggestions.

Saito .72
APC 13x6
15% wildcat
Perry oscilating pump
tank near cg
3deg right thrust
ca hinges pinned
4-40 hardware all the way around
hs-81mg on throttle
HS-5925 on rudder
HS-605 elevator
HS-325's on ailerins
seal hinge gaps


any questions, comments, concerns, and/or suggestions?

Rhilluk

seems cool, what rpm you spinning that prop, bear in mind the flip has 3deg right thrust on the fire wall from what I'm told.
With those big servo's in the tail, it might come out tail heavy so try to install the battery and reciever in the front, I used a light ply piece with foam under where the fuel tank is supposed to go up the front. ANd it took a 1400mah battery to balance it, even with a Y.S.63. up front.
Don't need to seal those gaps, mines not. Just don't fly fast. ALso my rudder fell off after two flights, nearly every flip has done this, so make sure you use the metal hinges and PIN THEM in with cocktail sticks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

Have fun flying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dangerous Dan

My Feedback: (1)

foofydoo

Thanks for the info. what does the ys 63 weigh, i will put a 2400 mha powerflite LI in the nose it will turn around 10k

What props are people using with the saito .72 the 13x6 was a perfict match with a Fun Air 3D 40 and H9 Pizzaz

Curiously what hapens at full throttle level flight?

should I reinforce the firewall?

do you need an additional 3 deg besides the 3 deg that is already there?

do you think 3 large ca hinges will work in the rudder if pinned and sealed(I always seal my surfaces out of habbit)

Rhilluk

unsure how much my y.s. weighs. With the flip it's nice to go for a lower pitch prop, like the APC 14x4w gives more thrust and better acceleration. Most use a 14x4w with the YS' You could if you're spinning a 13x6
At full throttle level flight, you're likely to pull the ailerons off, it's not meant for speed, I can get mine to fly backwards in a nice breeze. Wouldn't bother with the firewall. I haven't, but will check from now on.
With the side thrust, am I in the dark here, I didn't add any right thrust to mine, but I did get confused when it was pulling to the left in the climb, my rudd was not centered properly. The best thing to do is, from straight and level and trimmed out, pull into a vertical climb, if it pitches to the belly - too much down thrust and to the canppoy - need more down. If it pulls to the left - not enough right thrust - and vice versa.
With the rudd it's the fact that the tail wheel is directly linked, the landing cause the damage. So up to you really. You could add a different tail wheel thats steered by an ealstic band.

Also a tip - with harriers, add spoileron to a switch, like the airbrake function, so at the flip of a switch they pop up - but ARE not mixed to the elevator if you get my drift, this reduces the chord of the wing and makes it easier to harrier, I'm still playing around with my setting, but 45deg of up flap seems to be working for me.

Dangerous Dan

My Feedback: (1)

I had a saito .72 runing wildcat 15% on a 4lb 10oz fun air 3D 40. I used a 13x6 APC. In a climb and glide competition the plane had so much altitude after 20 seconds that you could not tell which way it was pointed. I assume that the 13x6 would be too much for the flip 3D I just bought two 14x4w. Is anybody else running this prop with a Saito .72, If so how does it hover?

TD1

Dntmn
I have flown mine with a Saito .72 with the APC 14x4 and although had a slow spool was nice for some manuvers, because it moved more air to the tail making it more effective.

I have also flown mine with a OS 50 sx and required around 80% power to hold a steady hover and a very slow pull with a APC 12x4.
I am in the process of recovering mine and I am thinking in using a Webra 61 Aero that I have with a APC 13x4, should be a good powerplant. The webra seams to be lighter than the Saito .72

Nickolas

My FLIP 3D with an OS FS-70 Ultimate engine is ready to fly. I experience some problems with the idle settings of the engine and I have not flown it yet. Its is weight is around 2.5 Kgs, a bit heavy I think but I have not added any extra weight rather than the engine which is heavier than a 40-50 sized one.

I would like to ask about the movements of the control throws and expo rates for the first flight and 3D later on. Can I use the ones of Madness I as indicated in CPLR's web site? Kyosho's manual seems a bit novice I think, it is like a toy manual for my little brother....:-). Also, I am using the following servos:

JR-4231 (6 Kgs) for Elevator, and JR-2235 (5 Kgs but very fast) for the rest (ailerons and rudder) are they good enough?

Anyway, any advice would be more than wellcome. Has anybody of you flown the plane with the OS FS-70 Ultimate engine? I chose it instead of the YS-63 because of its user friendliness but I think I made a wrong decision...I'll try to be optimistic...;-). Currently I have the choice of either using an APC 13-7 prop or a 14-4. Which would be better for the Ultimate you think?

Looking forward to your replies.

Thanks and regards,

Nick

Rhilluk

hi,
is this the new os 70 pumped version, if so I've heard there is a problem with the pump on them. Also the 14x4w might be a bit much try a 13x4w,
The servo's sound more than enough and will give you some fun, my flip 3d has 645MG alround and they're plenty. I think I use 30% expo on all channels and put as much throw in as I can get, Forget the manual, its crap for that. but I have dual rates as well and they help.
good luck

Flach

HI,
there's a guy here in Brasil that has a Flip with an OS 90fx and it seens to work really well and I think i'll put an 90fx on mine too...
Why nobody here talks about this engine?!? I want to know if its a good choice for the flip?

Rhilluk

it depends how hi you are flying. An OS 91 will probably be too heavy for it. With funflys you want the lightest most powerful engine that you need. An O.S. 61 will be getting too big. Most use a west 50 and that will hover below 1/2 throttle.
How hi are you flying.

Flach

I'm flying at the sealevel, but the 91fx has the same weight of the 61fx.. that's why i do prefer this engine

Rhilluk

but then you are going way over the manufacturers engine recommendations. You'll find yourself hardly going over half throttle and hovering may become difficult with the lack of definition at the low end of the engine. With a less powerful engine you have more definiton by using all the the power range. With an engine that is too big you wiill never use more than 50-60% of the power. I don't know what the OS91 is like down in the low end. But you'll find with the less powerful engine you'll have more definition over the power range, especially useful in the hover. You may end up with the model desecnding, so one click of power on the stick and it will be climbing. 2 stroke also like to be reved, so most of there power comes from the upper end of the rpm range. However it's up to you. I personally would go for a 60 if I wanted the biggest engine I could get away with on the flip

Rhilluk

you also have to think about grounf clearance with teh bigger prop on the flip. I can't get any bigger than a 12 at the moment, a 14 will clip the ground on landing. You'll also have the extra expense of upgrading the U/C

bob27s

My Feedback: (19)

As for an engine choice.....

Jett recently developed the BSE-76L specifically for this application. Its the same mounting and size as an OS.46, weights about 1/2 oz more. The best power-to-weight ratio you can find. Dub also makes a 60L 'hover' engine..... same 46 size, a little lighter, and loves the 12.25 x 3.25 prop running at about 13K rpm. Both engines are designed for lower RPM and superior midrange throttle response, and use either non tuned or the turbo-jett mufflers.

I have a Flip in the box, but it got stuck in line behind testing in the Funtana 40 and AW .40 540T

Both of those planes are heavier (my 540 is over 6 lbs) and the engine has no trouble pulling vertical. Great midrange properties for hovering and such. The Flip will get in the air probably after the NATS. I will post some photos as soon as I get it in the air.

So far I personally have run 14x6, 14x4W, 13x8 and 12x6 3-blade props on the 76L, and the engine performed well with each. The 14x6 turns about 10K rpm...... the 14x4 turns over 11K rpm. Based on what I've seen about prop clearance, I will have to work a bit more with the 12" blades.

Just an option to consider, especially if you are flying at higher altitudes.

Bob Brassell

GordonFreeman

How 'bout the new Saito .82a

pizza

My Feedback: (24)

the flip 3d I flew was a 40 size plane which means 40 something size engine. this flip had an os50 with tuned muffler, at 4200 feet it hovered at 1/2 throttle or 7000 rpm which is right in the middle of power band where you want to be. down on the deck hovering requires a nice smooth stick with some range not an on off switch. these small airplanes with oversize engines are like trying to hover a rocket - with on off throttle switch I test fly these heavy overpowered planes every weekend - I tell the owner "nice plane" and walk away shaking my head. all you need is reserve power to pull out slowly and safely - hovering will become childs play.

Dewey2

My Feedback: (24)

[quote all you need is reserve power to pull out slowly][/quote]

*** again i'm running a ys 63 but saito 100 would work great. if you don't scare something when you punch out it ant got enough power.

Rhilluk

I have a ys.63 in mine and was running a 12x6 prop, and hovering it felt like trying to balance a hockey stick on the end of you finger. However I moved up to a 14x4W prop and now it almost holds itself in the hover, instant transformation in my hovering abilty.
But I second pizza quote, all you need is reserve power, people seem to go over the top with engine size, all this does is make the plane heavier and less manourverable in other 3d moves.
I also think using the right prop helps.

AeroDave

I have an OS 91 FX on mine. After the first flight with this engine I took it home, recovered it with monocoat, put in robart hinge points and good servos/linkages. This is an incredible combination and I want it to last. I know it weighs a bit more than when I had the Saito 72 on it. but it still floats like a balloon. When I blip the throttle in a hover it shoots up a few feet. ( I use a 9C heli radio with no ratchet on the throttle so its very precise). From a hover I can blip the throttle, feed in full down and reduce power to idle, holding full down. It rotates forward in a stationary flip to inverted and then drops straight down, perfectly level inverted, with no forward motion. To recover I simply add some power and finish the flip to hover. the extra power makes this move absolutely solid. I think everyone should use what they're comfortable with. All of the engines mentioned in this thread will work, and everything is some sort of compromise. But for my money, the 91 FX is a blast!

pizza

My Feedback: (24)

However I moved up to a 14x4W prop and now it almost holds itself in the hover, instant transformation in my hovering abilty.

a big diamieter low pitch prop spinning high rpm acts like a giro, it will lock in your airplane at hover so you can take one hand off transmitter and waive to the crowd.

Rhilluk

didn't think of it like this, for 3d go for the biggest diameter, lowest pitch prop you can get away with for your engine and that will help a big deal with hovering, makes sense.

pizza

My Feedback: (24)

didn't think of it like this, for 3d go for the biggest diameter, lowest pitch prop you can get away with for your engine and that will help a big deal with hovering, makes sense.

this is my bigest argument why 2cy is better than 4cy for 3d. torqey low rpm 4cy engines like small diameter big pitch props = less gyro effect and more sensitive throttle response. for pattern a small diameter big pitch prop is good, it delivers a narrow spiralling air stream - most of the wing stays in clean uninterupted air for nice straight lines. in 3d you want that air stream to be spread as much as possible over surfaces for better control and stability at many different angles of attack.

Rhilluk

I thought 4 strokes turned bigger props but slower, while 2c turned smaller props but faster.