bsumpter

I know nothing -- would like to know much more! So if you inclined to do so, please tell me anything you know about smoke systems -- how they work, how to install, etc.

This will be going in a .40 sized Ultra Stick running a YS 45 engine with standard muffler.

Any help is always appreciated.

Thanks!

EXCAP232

My Feedback: (12)

Its a real pain on a .40 size slow engine. By the time you add a second tank // preheater for the fluid going into the muffler you have increased the weight to much higher wing loading. Then you need a pump to get the fluid to the muffler and a battery to run the pump. Where will you put all this in that size plane. My recommendation is not to bother on this size plane. Wait till you get a "gasser".

I flew a Carden Extra for 3 years that had a smoke system and used it twice. I decided it wasn't worth the 2 hours it took to clean the plane after a smoke session. Smoke is really cool to see however you will find it isn't used much for sport flying and is used for demos and for "freestyle" in competition.

B&B makes a smoke system that uses crankcase pressure to activate the pump. Don Harris makes a nice one too (not sure how it works as I had the B&B).

Check out the IMAC site for links to parts/// www.mini-iac.com

Good luck with whatever decision you make. Bill

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

I agree, and I speak from experience. I have a gasser (G-62) that had a "Simple Smoke" brand pump. I later installed a B&B smoke pump. Since I still had the electric pump, I decided to put it in my 60 size Extra 300. It added so much weight that the plane eventually crashed on landing due to too high wing loading.

As EXCAP232 said, Smoke is cool, but leave it to the big planes.

ninefingers

My Feedback: (18)

You are not going to have much success here for two reasons. One, as mentioned earlier, you're planes to small. Even .60 size planes are pushing it depending on what type of system you set up. The other reason is that its a two stroke motor and dosnt get hot enough for smoke.

tips:

1. Use a 1.20 size or above plane that can handle the payload.

2. Use a four-stroke with "smoke muffler" or a gasoline engine (which gets plenty hot )

3. Use a "simple smoker" pump. Its requires less plumbing.

4. Use "store bought" smoke oil instead of some homebrew concoction (cause it just works better).

5. Use RCU "search" and search for "smoke"!

2fast4u

My Feedback: (5)

OK guys, this is all kinda one sided. MAC's sells a smoke muffler set up for smaller planes. They used to have a video on their site showing the system at work, smoking up a storm, on a .40 sized engine. I don't know the details, but look them up. I do know that they use Crank case pressure to pressureize the smoke, and a simple switch to allow the flow of oil to the muffler. It sure looked good on the video

EXCAP232

My Feedback: (12)

I have seen many an "infomertial" and then wait for the news to come out on 60 minutes later. I would like to see a practical / light / inexpensive smoke system to install in my Pizazz. Let me know when and if one is available. A friend was flying his at the field and another pilot asked what was hanging below the fusealge to which another replied it's Barbie's legs. It seems that the children in the family were not happy about her losing her legs when being installed in the plane. If part of Barbie has to dangle below the fuselage where will the smoke tank go? Bill

sanjoh

I've used a crank pressurized smoke system on aircraft from .40 to gassers.

Here's and article that will answer all your questions.
http://soldcentralfl.com/flyingpenguin/smoke.htm

I find the biggest problem is that to much oil is injected into the muffler. I use a needle valve to minimize the amount of oil and maximize smoke. The last gasser I installed the system on would smoke for 20min. on 12oz. it created enough smoke that the plane would disappear in a tailslide, not bad for a 90"ws.

Chris 540

My Feedback: (3)

http://macspro.brinkster.net/smokesys.asp

ninefingers

My Feedback: (18)

Ok, I watched the Smoke Video, didn't look impressive to me. .40 motors don't get hot enough

Just get some 20% oil fuel and richen it way out! Poor man smoke!

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

I just watched the smoke video, that looks pretty cool to me smoke a smaller plane; do we have any 1st hand experience with that model? Ninefingers i have seen your poor man smoke and its cool as long as the old motor doesn't clunk out. Most people like to fly her fast with the smoke in my neck of the woods. I think i will give this smoke systems a try. It will just be 03 before i can throw it on something (maybe my DP Bipe). Keep us posted all if there is a better bang to the buck..........

ninefingers

My Feedback: (18)

Ok, go ahead and try it, the hobby shops will love you for it!! I'm outa here.

jsonin

My Feedback: (4)

9fingers has it right (along with the other folks who posted)... small two-stroke engines, like a .40, won't generate the heat required to burn the smoke fluid (gas, oil, etc). A big four stroke or gas engine is the only way to go for decent smoke. You'll get a slight smoke trail behind your 40 - maybe twice the bulk or viscosity of a really rich .40 - and it will not be impressive or very showy.

We tried ink bladders in the late eighties with little success (without a pump to keep down the weight on small airframes). It just comes down to 2-strokes not getting hot enough for monster smoke.

-Juhan

ps: We do have some video of smoke systems in action at this URL:
http://www.mit.edu/~juhan/rc_home.html

bsumpter

What about coiling some nichrome wire up into a spiral in the muffler? This could be ran off the same battery that will run the pump. And to keep weight down, I could assemble a small lithium pack that would weigh practically nothing. These are the really small packs I use in my parkflyers, rated at about 830 mAh.

Since heat is the main thing against the .40 sized planes, would the nichrome wire heat it up enough to smoke? Seems like years ago I remember reading something about people using nichrome in the muffler to heat the smoke fluid.

Thoughts?

BTW - I appreciate everyone's input on this!

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

This, re-emphasizes the futality of smoke on a small plane. None of us are saying that it's impossible, what we're saying is that in order to make it work, you have to go through more trouble than it's worth.

A plain ol' every day, run-of-the-mill smoke system can be a pain in the butt to operate and maintain. Anything extra involved simply complicates what is already complicated.

2fast4u

My Feedback: (5)

Well put MinnFlyer. I think. No, I'm sure of it now.

vennom72

I Have a 46 size ultamate with smoke..
Am running a perry smoke pump with crank pressure a dubro check valve and a micro servo on a 4 oz tank.. Works great didnot seem to hurt the plane at all.............. GO FOR IT!!!!!

Mluvara

My Feedback: (10)

The key to smoke is atomization. Small motors DO get hot enough. It's just that they don't provide the sheer volume that larger motors do. The exhaust gas temp on a .46 is about the same as on a 6.0! The volume of hot air is just not there, and obviously, one will not see a phenomenal cloud of white smoke, but a good amount.

I've had some .45's work well with smoke and without pumps. Remember that if you want to pour in the fluid on a small motor, it won't work. The amount of fluid cools the little amount of hot air getting pushed out by the piston. If one wants to make a small glow motor smoke, do the following things:

1. Use a commercial fluid, MDW super dri, etc
2. Inject the fluid at the hottest part of the exhaust
3. Inject the fluid into a small hole at a high velocity. Atomize it. Think of a spray bottle. If you spray a stream onto your arm, it pools up and evaporates slowly. If you make it into a mist, you spread out the volume and it evaporates faster.
4. Meter the fluid going into the system. Use a wheel collar, needle valve, etc. There is a sweet spot for a system. Too much fluid will cool to fast and the motor's exhaust volume can't handle the amount of fluid there.
5. Place a check valve close to the injection port. This is there to make sure that the fluid does not work its way back to the tank. When the smoke switch is flipped, the smoke will come on almost instantly.

Good luck!
Michael