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Full scale hovering

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Old 06-15-2004, 11:37 PM
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Data Android
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Default Full scale hovering

someone once showed me a picture of a full scale sukhoi hovering at the edge of a runway.
I was told it was a russian pilot.
any idea if that picture was real and where I can find it?

thanx for any help.
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Old 06-16-2004, 06:55 AM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

Jurgis Kairys sort of does a hover after his yakitori manuever. It's basically a wall (cobra) and climbs out real slow, I've seen him start the manuver at 20' of altitude before. Got it on video somewhere. Was filmed at Motegi race track here in Japan.
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Old 06-16-2004, 01:34 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

full size prophang can't be far off can it?!
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Old 06-16-2004, 01:37 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

It might be hard to feel the pitch but other than that I think it'd be pretty awesome! Gotta have quick feet for them rudder pedals :-)

I wanted to try some torque rolls with the Cessna152 but not enough power and not the right carb ;-)
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Old 06-16-2004, 01:43 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

can't feel it? your in it
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Old 06-16-2004, 02:00 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

You can also feel the GGGGGggggg too. I had no idea how much stress aeros put on the plane and pilot until i did it. a lot better than roller coasters
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Old 06-16-2004, 02:10 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

The Consolidated XFY-1 "Pogostick" could and a few others.
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Old 06-16-2004, 02:16 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

Yep but that was an experimential VTOL so it dont count in my book!
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Old 06-16-2004, 02:18 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

i wanna see some sort of Extra or Sukoi do it, not a dedicated VTOL design
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Old 06-16-2004, 02:19 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

With rule #9 and wheels on the tail and stab you too can VTOL! :-)
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Old 06-16-2004, 02:20 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

I saw a sukhoi su26 or 31 do it in discovery channel, because they are much bigger than out models (duh) they seemed to be much more stable
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Old 06-16-2004, 03:41 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

sukhoi have radial engines don't they, guess they can get more power out of them. Seen Wandley do one in his Turbo Raven, and then climb out, but will never see that again as it crashed and he's retired.
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Old 06-16-2004, 03:44 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

Now a tail touch with a real plane would rule some major @$$!!! I want to get some serious hours in so when I'm 18 or whatever I can start aerobatic training
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Old 06-16-2004, 04:08 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

I dont think its possible. I mean, maybe for a couple of seconds but that it. If someone can prove me wrong with a video that would be nice.
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Old 06-16-2004, 04:13 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

There hasn't been any hovering yet...no 2:1 power to weight ratios form what i see...maybe 20 second hovering at tops...anyone feel free to prove me wrong
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Old 06-16-2004, 04:14 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

Have seen will curtis T/R, elevator, harrier, and wall(12g i might add!) his sukhoi. was at the southern model show. superb.
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Old 06-16-2004, 04:20 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

Right now this is about as long as they can hover, http://www.jkairys.com/common/movies...NING_LB619.mpg That is using a 400HP engine, there is a 450HP engine that is still in the development stage which will give a power to weight of more than 1 to 1. And this is Kirbys new edge doing a cobra....
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Old 06-16-2004, 04:38 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

ORIGINAL: mAvRiCk

There hasn't been any hovering yet...no 2:1 power to weight ratios form what i see...maybe 20 second hovering at tops...anyone feel free to prove me wrong
watch an old vid of wayne handley in his turbo raven. Hovers high up, but then he pulls away and climbs. but this link is not a vid. Can't find on yet, but it's been on discovery.
http://www.waynehandley.com/archive.html
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Old 06-16-2004, 05:21 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

sweet pic!!! you can tell he's using his wing mounted guide
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Old 06-16-2004, 05:23 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

Cool stuff guys...NICE VID ALEX

Dan
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Old 06-16-2004, 05:44 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

A sukhoi SU-31 can hover. It has the most power to weight ratio than any other production built piston engine plane. Its thrust exceeds its weight. It will hover and pull out. The only thing keeping it from hovering is the pilot. Another plane that is not far off is the Edge 540. It falls back slowly when hovering. Also Wayne Handleys Turbo Raven had more of and R/C power to weight ratio. It was over 1.5:1. And you dont have to have a 2:1 thrust to weight. As long as it exceeds 1:1 by any amount, theoretically it will hover and pull out. By the was, That picture of the Edge is pretty cool.
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Old 06-16-2004, 09:54 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

Nice video - looks like Ian Groom and he IS NOT hovering. He used inertia in the rolling up line until all the energy is bled off and then the airplane IMMEDIATELY starts falling back while he maintains the roll rate. This is a Full Scale Torque Roll and was first introduced by Charlie Hilliard in 1972. It won him gold in the World Aerobatic Championships (WAC) that year. By the way - that looks remarkable like an SU-31 to me - 360hp+ for the 31 and 400hp for the PF version, neither of which can "hover" in the same sense as that of what we do with R/C. The SU-31 weight is only about 100lbs lighter than that of the SU-29 and they use the same HP (empty weight for the 31 is 1650lbs ad fuel and the pilot and you can see where this is going - down. AvGas weighs approx 6lbs. per gallon. The airplane will hold a total of 76.3 gallons of fuel - though not flown at full tanks for a four minute free. 11 liters of oil at 20lbs., smoke oil at 57lbs, and a pilot. That's a 2000lb airplane not 30-35lbs.

While it is true that you only need better than 1:1 thrust to weight ratio, it is not the only factor in determining if an airplane can hover. Sean Tucker regularly flys his airplanes in a harrier - high alpha configuraion, but he cannot hover. Will full scale airplanes eventually be able to hover - probably. Have guys been trying it for some time - yes. Does gravity affect all objects the same way regarless of their mass - yes. It's not as simple as hanging a bigger engine off the nose of a full scale airplane and the full scale pilot doesn't walk away when he inadvertantly induces fludder or surface lock when the plane slides back in a bad way. You can't put bigger servos in the plane. it's the strength of the plane, it's components and the man/woman holding the stick. As of this time, we don't use pneumatic systems in our aerobatic airplanes. The only "assist" we get is counter balanced surfaces and trim. Have you every slid a full scale airplane backwards in a tail slide?
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Old 06-16-2004, 09:58 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

http://www.esotec.co.nz/hb/HTML/HomePage2.html

This could be the first plane to hover.
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Old 06-16-2004, 10:44 PM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

The following is from Wayne Handley's web site Wayne started his aerobatic career flying a Pitts Special in competition and airshows and transitioned to the Raven in 1990. The Raven is a beautiful and exciting monoplane that proved itself to be a crowd favorite for the next eight years. In 1998, Wayne began flying airshows in the Oracle Turbo Raven. The Oracle Turbo Raven, powered by a 750 HP Pratt & Whitney PT6A-25C, was the first airshow airplane to have a positive thrust-to-weight ratio. With a performance weight of 1,900 pounds and 2,800 pounds of thrust, the Turbo Raven could climb straight up, stop in the vertical line, and then accelerate straight up again. Another of Wayne's favorite maneuvers in the Oracle Turbo Raven was to power out of a flat spin without lowering the nose below the horizon. On January 20, 1999, Wayne established a world record for all propeller driven airplanes by going from brake release to 3,000 meters in one minute and nine seconds. In April of 1999, flying a G-202, Wayne broke his own world record for inverted flat spins by taking the world record up to 78 turns. (Wayne asks anyone wishing to break this record to add his or her turns to the top and not the bottom of this maneuver.) During the EAA convention in Oshkosh on July 30,1999, Wayne established a new time-to-climb record to 6,000 meters in the Oracle Turbo Raven with a time of three minutes and six seconds.
On October 3, 1999, one year to the day that the Oracle Turbo Raven had been on the airshow circuit, Wayne was involved in a tragic accident while performing in the Turbo Raven at the California International Airshow. The airplane was a total loss and Wayne sustained a broken back and other injuries. Thanks to the preparedness of the show's emergency personnel and the magnificent staff of the Salinas Valley Memorial Hospital, Wayne made a complete recovery. They have some nice pics of the original Turbo Raven there. Look at http://waynehandley.com/
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Old 06-17-2004, 04:59 AM
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Default RE: Full scale hovering

Nice vid

That plane is torque rolling but granted it is the same hing as hovering. Anyway COOOOOOOOOL VID.
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