fearlessJOE

[:@]
Hi gang,
I am trying to learn to T-roll and am getting pretty fed up with the rudder.
What really gets me is that I'm no stranger to the rudder, 4point, 8point, knife edge, flat-turns, inverted flat-turns, hammerhead, inverted hammerhead, hover, etc. all no problem. But point the bottom of the plane at me in a hover, and I'm lucky to get 50-50 odds on getting it right.

Anyone have any tips or secrets to getting it right?
When 1st learning to fly my instructor told me to "push to the low wing" when flying toward myself. Will anything like that work?[sm=confused.gif]

One way or the next I'll keep trying, even if it costs me a plane[]

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

Yes..

When you're looking at the belly.. push the rudder in the direction you want the tail to go.

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

i have the same problem, tho I'm not so good at the aeros.
by the time you think about the low wing thing the planes now side on and falling out, it has to be instinct like prophang is when you've cracked it.

half my problem is i try to TR like I'm walking around a stationary plane, but when i see others do it, even the good ones, it looks very untidy. cheating with lots of aileron also seems to be the norm. When i do it this way i can normally pop 1 or 2 before i get in trouble.

burning fuel is the trick, I'm dying to get my hands on AFP too

joeb102072

My Feedback: (9)

Maybe this will help. First off all TR is different as you know for every plane so depending on the plane, engine, and prop size you may find that you TR at blinding speeds. My 40 size Morris Knife with a .63 YS and a 13x4w prop TR so fast Its very difficult to hold. Anyway the obvious solution is to deflect the alerons a bit to slow it down. My theroy is and it has worked for me, Its like second nature when the canopy is facing you so no thought is required there, but when the plane tr's and now the bottom faces me I shift my view to the tail section and keep the thought that I will correct the rudder by moving the stick in the direction i want the tail of the plane to go. Example if the plane falls off to the left in a TR then that means the tail has kicked to the right. Well, I want the tail to go to the left again to make it upright again therefore i move the rudder stick left and presto it corrects itself. Basically when I was learning to fly many a year ago I was taught at a field that had only one left to right runway so using rudder was a must. The way we were taught was to push the stick in the direction you want the tail of the plane to move when it is comming at you and it does. Just like a dipped wing when the plane is comming at you push the stick in the direction of the dipped wing and bam in corrects. Well IMO thats how I learned and to my suprise after working out on the Sim AFP it has definatly paid off. Good Luck.

SMALLFLY-

My Feedback: (19)

If it hasnt been said allready rudder towards the low wing when it's belly is at you

Luke 3D returns

Push rudder toward low wingworks well

F1race79

My Feedback: (6)

Yes, have to agree, toward low wing.
Also, the plane will do the same thing everytime, learn what it is going to do and stay ahead of it.

JAS

My Feedback: (2)

My .02 cents is:

Input the same rudder as the direction the nose is going off. If the nose starts to point right, give it right rudder. Of course this only helps when looking at the bottom.

Only hold an input for no more than 180 degrees of the rotation, after that...reverse it.

rcaviator-RCU

My Feedback: (20)

fearlessJOE,

Just keep flying and practicing. The secret is that anyone can torque roll with enough practice, and it takes a lot. One day it will click for you and become automatic, you won't even have to think about the corrections.

An electric foamy helped me a bunch, and I still fly it as it is so much fun.

Good luck, and have fun,
Don Miller

JoeAirPort

My Feedback: (41)

Yep it's all about practice. Your brain will slowly figure out how to correct without you even knowing what you're doing (at the stick level). I went through this and I can torque pretty good now. Better on the sim first.

fearlessJOE

thanks for all your help!
I am practiceing with a U-can-do .46 with a .91 4stroke in the evenings, and a foamie ultamite bipe @ lunch!!!

Nogyro

My Feedback: (10)

Rudder towards low wing with the belly towards you is easy to remember. After that, it 's all instinct. There just isn't enough time to "think" about it. I could hover my Giant Stinger 5 ft. off the ground for 3 minutes, but just now learning the TR with my new Wild Hare Edge. I think I spend 50% of my time trying it. I'm up to 5 or 7 revolutions now. I honestly think it may take the rest of this season and next to really get in nailed down. And I fly 2 to 4 times/week. Some guys sure do make it look easy though! Now if I could just do the rolling circle also.

Manuel Santos

Hi i`m manuel from mexico city

here in mexico as we are in an altitude of 8000 fts
it becomes very difucult to do TR because you don`t have
tha enougt power to make corrections oe even mistakes
so you have to be very presice and have to do corrections verry
fast in order not to miss it...

one thing that helps me alot was the simulator because one`s you
tried hours and hours you are not thinking any more you just
feel it and do it..

I think if you are trying at the same time you are thinking of what to do
you will miss valious time so i will say one you practice alot
you will be able not just to cacht it the rigth way you will be able
to get the position you want and you will do it instinc...
for me the simulator was very useful but you have to have the
rigth plane in order to practice similar to your real plane...

i wish this can help and remember you have to feel it not thinking....

3littlefonzies

i agree simulator is a big help,

i have realflight and its not that good for 3D but for laerning TRs it OK. i did it for hours b4 i got to where i made some headway. with realflight the ailerons are not effective in hover. so no choice bbut to TR. i used the toward the low wing plan and it still took a long time. just today after about a month of sim and real life trying. i got a couple of good TRs in. it felt great.

i also moved the CGback to 5.5 behind LE on my ucd 46. that made hovers way more stable.


my advice is simulator ALOT, fly ALOT. stick time, stick time, stick time, stick time, stick time ,

JohnVH

My Feedback: (38)

belly towards me is about as easy as top towards me, the sides are the interesting part, you cant tell which way its going

Spacey

True John. I also find it fairly easy now to move the rudder in the right direction and I do not concentrate on that too much anymore. Thing that gets the better of me now is alot of the time the plane just goes and sits still in some weird angle and i can't judge the attitude too well. From the side is the worst.

fearlessJOE keep at it. It took me more than a year to get the hang of it. I'm not one of the lucky few that clicks things very quickly and even though I consider myself a capable flyer in my own eyes (Meaning I'm happy with the way I'm making progress) I have to really put stick time in on the sim and at the field before I get the hang of something. Now back to the sim to figure out rolling harriers

Sprink

I agree 100%

I have spent hours on the simulator practising, to get to the point that it becomes instintive on the sim. I can now do it fairly well with my Shocky, knowing that getting it wrong is not going to cost me. Still working up to my bigger gas planes, but getting there .

To quote Star Wars - Feel the force . I now find if I concentrate on it, I will do it wrong. If I relax and go with it, just doing what I feel, then it is usually fine.

Nogyro

My Feedback: (10)

You are right about this one also. I kept falling out of the TR on my first rotation until I figured out at 3/4 turn when the side was towards me, that I needed to come back with some rt rudder after correcting with the left rudder when the belly was towards me. I couldn't see it, but it was there. I'm probably not getting out of the left rudder quick enough and have to correct with the right.

sensei

Hello Guys

The idea is to practice on the sim until it becomes second nature, I have been flying r/c and control line for thirty five years, and when I started to learn to fly 3D in the late 90s it was very, very, frustrating and unnatural from what I had been doing all my life. One day years ago, my Best Friend, George Hicks told me if you want to really get this down, then hit the sticks on the sim like it was a second job and practice with the hardest to fly airplane availible on the sim, so I did. I practiced nearly 7 day's a week a minimum of two hours each day for over 2 years. I also wore-out three transmitters in the process. As you can see it was hard to teach an old dog new tricks, however if you want something bad enough you will have to work for it. Moral to the story, just keep after it, you will get there.

Bob Sawyer

Luke 3D returns

when you get lower down you can look along the line of the leading edge when the plane is side on- that way you can sort of tell where your rudder corrections need to go, but much easier said than done!

Bosch

I tork roll my planes down hear Te ground with no using rudder . Rudder es GOOD but not essential for hovering ande Tork roll. I am ready for blast-backs Guys but I can Tork Roll no rudder. I will school to learn rudder later[8D]

Luke 3D returns

Oh look its a troll!wellcome!

Nogyro

My Feedback: (10)

TR'ing no rudder, right. Maybe 1 turn or 2, but come on. I'm sure the simulator would help tremedously with this manover, but I enjoy flying to much to learn it on the sym. Much rather burn gas, than sit in front of this thing. Getting lower does help. Seems like 30 ft or so and you can really start to see things better. Same thing when hovering. But........................ you have to have the confidence to get out of trouble. ie wrong elevator input.

Cactus.

My Feedback: (1)

i found learning to hang down low was easy, but you really can bend a plane when trying to TR that low, so far i keep about 10-20' up, when you fall out it's quick and either sideways or backwards, neither of which my Cougar likes to recover from quickly, even IF i get the right inputs in

sensei

Probably the very best thing to master first, is the high alpha roll, it will save you from low level torque rolls and other low maneuver errors better than any other thing you can do to save your airplane.

Bob Sawyer