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HELP WITH WING ROCK IN HARRIER

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Old 06-09-2005, 05:03 PM
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Default HELP WITH WING ROCK IN HARRIER

I am flying a 50cc 80" Velox and I need to know do I set the ailerons to raise up with FULL high rate up elevator or move in proportion to the amount of up ELEV? Also do I set the ailerons to deflect the opposite way when doing an inverted harrier. How much aileron movement is a good starting point?
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Old 06-10-2005, 10:53 AM
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Default RE: HELP WITH WING ROCK IN HARRIER

They should be proportional and they should move in the same direction as the elev. Start with 50 percent rate proportional to full elev travel. Hope this helps.
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:59 AM
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Default RE: HELP WITH WING ROCK IN HARRIER

Hi,
Just to jump in here as I have the same problem.
Do you mean as the ele goes up the ailerons go down which would be the same as inverted. I've got a little confused as I heard someone say that the ailerons needed to be both a little negative in a normal harrier so I assume the opposite in an inverted one. Should I fix say 10% both ways which would mean switching or add 10% as a proportional amount that is added when the ele is added?
Hope that all makes sense.
Could moving the cg further aft help or is it not so significant as the above?
Hope someone can advise, not that its possible to fly today - well it is but even I dont want to go out in -2deg C. plus the batteries are not so happy on my leccys.
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:32 AM
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Default RE: HELP WITH WING ROCK IN HARRIER

This is a spoileron set up. The rate is going to be different with every plane. I use a 100% mix both ways. So if the elev goes up both ails go up. If the elev goes down both ailes go down. I am going to try and post a few pics below. It's also important to be able to turn this mix on/off very quickly. A 10% mix may not be a big deal, but a 100% mix can pancake you plane in a hurry. I am using a 9C and have the mix on the trainer switch. This way I can let go of the switch at any point and fly the plane out. It may not be a big deal on a harrier as throttle will stand the nose up at any time. Coming straight down in an Elevator and trying to fly out with the mix on can get dicey in a hurry.

David
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Old 01-07-2010, 06:28 PM
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Default RE: HELP WITH WING ROCK IN HARRIER

Yes sir Dave, I agree with your last sentence. I also found that as I got better with the rudder my wing rock went away. When I first started doing elevators and flying harrier the wings would rock on almost any plane. Now they all seem pretty stable.

Back when I was having trouble I just set up some spoileron on a switch and fliped the switch whenever I wanted to elevator or harrier. My planes didn't need much to stop the wing rock, maybe 3/16" deflection on an 80 incher.
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Old 01-08-2010, 04:58 AM
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Default RE: HELP WITH WING ROCK IN HARRIER

Hi guys.
I had never thought of A/ that mix to be in that direction and B/of such an amount so I'll give that a try. If that fails I may try moving the CG back but I already have some lead in the back and I didnt really want to add any more. Lead and terra-firma seem to hold an attraction, at least, when they meet in an unplanned fashion, you wish it wasnt on the plane.
I'm not going to say it will be "cool" when the weather improves but you know what I mean
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Old 01-08-2010, 11:09 AM
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Default RE: HELP WITH WING ROCK IN HARRIER

Nigel, does the wing rock get better as it burns fuel? This might be an indication of CG. If it is better with 1/4 tank than it is with a full tank, then I would move the CG back a little. Can you lighten the nose any? Lighter prop and or spinner? Can you move the engine back any? I have gone so far as to build a battery box in the tail. I don't have any lead in anything I own.

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Old 01-08-2010, 11:19 AM
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Default RE: HELP WITH WING ROCK IN HARRIER

Being electric it tends to have the same amount of weight at the end as the start
The only thing I could do is use a smaller lipo but I was hopeing that some one might say the CG is not the most important thing which helps.
Dont know why but it doesn rock half as bad when inverted.
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:03 AM
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Default RE: HELP WITH WING ROCK IN HARRIER

The Funtana in the picture is way better inverted also. I feel that the rudder being in cleaner air is the reason for that. It's the same way doing an elevator. the plane drops straight down inverted. Upright it rocks all over the place. Since you have an electric, changing the CG should be a snap. I would do three 2 minute flights back to back and move the battery pack 1/4" back between each flight. Assuming you have room to move the battery of course. One final thought. Every plane has a sweet spot for doing harriers. Some do great at 30 degrees others need 45 degrees. Have you played around with your AOA?

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Old 01-11-2010, 12:13 PM
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Default RE: HELP WITH WING ROCK IN HARRIER

well try to fly your airplane and practice harrier, not your radio options do it, get use to with elevator, rudder, and throttle on harriers and you will be better everytime.
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Old 01-11-2010, 02:21 PM
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Default RE: HELP WITH WING ROCK IN HARRIER

You are right John, but some planes just won't harrier without a little help.


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Old 01-16-2010, 07:38 PM
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Default RE: HELP WITH WING ROCK IN HARRIER


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ntsmith

Hi guys.
I had never thought of A/ that mix to be in that direction and B/of such an amount so I'll give that a try. If that fails I may try moving the CG back but I already have some lead in the back and I didnt really want to add any more. Lead and terra-firma seem to hold an attraction, at least, when they meet in an unplanned fashion, you wish it wasnt on the plane.
I'm not going to say it will be "cool" when the weather improves but you know what I mean
i wouldnt ,,over engineer this issue,,,especially if new to 3/d or mixing,,just go for the 100 % mix or less if uncomfortable,,,put it in a decent switch,,like the trainer,,,and ,,dont play with your cg ,,unless its nose heavy,,,remember most well funded fliers have a tail heavy plane for 3/d and a nose heavy one for precision imac style,,,also make sure your plane is laterally balanced,,but also realize engine torque,is present when flying at below stall speeds,,so practice with your mixes on the simulator ,,wouldnt hurt either,,but make sure your real plane has been set up first with the engine thrust angles ,correct incedence,,throws balance,,and the necessary piolting skills.
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