rcgood

From experience I found out that the best landing gear setup (at least for me) is a beefed up block or landing gear support with aluminum gear. I really like this setup because it can stand pretty hard landings (as hard as you can call them landings) and the aluminum gear bends and spreads taking part of the shock. You can simply bend it back and you're good to go. On top of that you never have to worry about tall grass, soft dirt or even holes at the end of the runway etc... It always stands up to that. I guess CF gear is ok but while the gear block will stay intact the gear will break and you'll have to replace it.

Now a lot of people say that too beefed up will cause too much damage to the fuse when a hard landing happens but in my experience that is not the case at all. When I crash hard enough to break the gear the whole plane is toast anyway. Meanwhile every bump, hole, hard landing, tall grass, rough surfaces I hit, I pickup the plane (maybe change a prop if it was hard enough) put it back on the runway and fly. I never have to fix the gear or the fuse.

The best gear setup I've seen so far was on my H9 Extra 33% and EF Yak 74. These are the planes that I had all of the above happen without having to fix the gear except sometimes bending the aluminum back. And I had some good hits sometimes where people thought for sure something broke. I had others like the Funtana 90, Goldberg Ultimate Bipe, Composite-Arf, etc...where if I hit the end of the runway, hole, soft dirt, etc...the gear would come out.

That's no fun. I'd rather sacrifice a few oz and have faith in my gear and not have to go home if I mess up the landing on a windy day, roll past the runway or do a harrier landing too hard.

G.P.

My Feedback: (1)

I have been eyeing these up:

http://www.hangar-9.com/Products/Def...odID=HAN2759AL

AFSalmon

My Feedback: (3)

Hey guys, thanks for your support at Toledo. Yes our Giles at OMP does fly with the YS 1.4 engine and has great performance. The only issue we had like disucussed many times was the landing gear mounting. The gear itself was fine, just the harwood mounting in the fuse. Admittedly it would be fine if you never plan on a hard landing in grass. Unfotunately this happens at times! [:@] We simply added some 1/8 a/c ply doublers at the top and bottom holes and that worked perfectly.

By the way we only have about 10 or so Ultra RC Giles left in stock. Check them at at www.ohiomodelplanes.com or give John a call at 937-372-0603.

rjbranchii

Don't miss the C.G. Correction! Post 412 from Ultra RC corrects the instruction manual and if you got a recent one like I did from OMP at Toledo this year. The CD says the cg is 190 mm. No way to balance there with a light motor. In post #412 Ultra RC States the correct CG is 200 to 250 mm! That is a huge difference! But by all means review post #412 in this thread no mater what your manual or CD instructions say. I believe you will find that many have found the prefer an even further aft cg but check the entire thread for those.

bob branch

all built, ready for motor break in

Patto

It's sad to see such a great line of aircraft discontinued. The Yaks seemed to not be very big sellers and not all that competitive in the weight department. The Katana looked great and was apparently very light like the Giles. I would like to see some more new planes built with similar designs in the airframe.

747-RCU

My Feedback: (22)

I bought one from Ultrarc about 2 years ago, finally pulled it out and started on it. Asked a friend of mine to do the hinges for me. elevators, rudder and one aileron were OK, but one of the ailerons the holes drilled were way out and the aileron was warped. After my friend did hinges, I brought it home and started to put the tail on, the elevators carbon tube and insert did not fit, it looked like the inserts in the elevators were not glued 100% straight, so I had to sand and sand to get everything to fit, however I am still having trouble to have it on straight. The canopy was dented and pushed in and cracked at the point of dent.
ANyways, I have got the wings ready with the tabs glued in and servos are in, the elevator servos are in.
Its going to be electric powered, I am going to wait and decide on the wing position at the last until after all is done and then decide on the wing position, I am leaning towards middle of the slot and lock it in. I have read that 1/2 inch from the front and some have it at the end of the slot, and they still fly great. So, unless I have no other option to get the CG right, I'll put it in the middle.
I'll update weights and performance as I progress along.

rjbranchii

747-RCU Don't decide on the wing position at all until the plane is 100% finished and assembled. Then put it on a balancer and move the wing to get the best balance position and then lock it in. You literally cannot decide it ahead of time unless you know for instance as I did that you have something at the wieght extreme and only then probably if you are at the really light weight powerplant like I was with a motor at 31 ounces with muffler. I pretty much guessed the wing would have to be all the way back and I was right. But the balance can changed just by what weight servo extensions you use. The ones going to the elevators are 3 footers. That is the beauty of the design. You don't have to guess and then add weight if your can't move stuff around to balance. You can put stuff where you want it, then balance the plane to your installation by moving the wing as it sits on the balancer. In my case I am at the back of the balance envelope and can adjust forward by changing props to different weights or changing spinners to move aft. That is how this thing is able to accomodate everything from a very light motor like mine to a heavy gasser and rarely (haven't heard of anyone) does anyone need to add ballast. That makes us all feel better.

Sorry to hear your issues with the tail. Man, mine came out dead nuts on. But I don't think I'm gonna trust the tail to tie the model down by for engine breaking. Gonna do that on a starting table at the club with the wings taking the load. Just not alot of solid structure at the back of the bird and a 20X8 prop can generate some ompf.

bob

747-RCU

My Feedback: (22)

That's exactly what I meant, you probably missed it. I was trying to get an idea from people who tried flying the planes at different wing positions and how the plane flew and where it flew the best. Chris says he found it flew best at 1/2 inch back from most forward, soomeone also said they flew right at the back and flies well. So, I am going to get it all ready except for the wing position and then lock it in place. I will still be able to play with CG as I am electrifying it and can move the batteries to play with CG.

You are right the tail is weak. Good thing yours was at least straight. That is nightmere trying to fix it. I am hoping to get it under 10lbs.

rjbranchii

747-RCU

Ok, I see what you are saying now. The position you are looking for is really how far aft of the leading edge the balance point is that you are going to start from. One of the nice things is you can adjust it to some degree by moving the wing if you find you really need a change after you fly it awhile. I have found I like to be pretty close to aft CG limits on planes though not aft of them to start and then start changing balance as I trim and get a feel for the plane. Numbers in books are just that from what I've seen cg wise and in most planes they are very nose heavy for my liking. One of the nice things with most 3D type planes is they have a pretty broad range that they will fly in unlike some non 3D designs where they go from flyable to unflyable very quickly. My maiden will come probably mid week, weather being the variable.

bob

747-RCU

My Feedback: (22)

I finally got mine ready, the plane had lots of problems, but hopefully it will fly fine.
Here is the setup
JR9411s on Elev and Ailerons, Hs6985 on rudder
Plettenberg xtra25-13 with Jeti77
10S Lipo 3200mah polyquest 3200 30C,50C or FP3700mah
Allup weight came to roughly 9lbs ready to fly, once the gear is glued in, I will do a final weght check on my digital fish scale.
Here are a few pics.
Maiden as soon as I can get out.

Paul_BB

Hi,

I own a Giles 202 of 76" span from a french RC specialist. I have some doubts about the CG location.
You said the correct CG location for your Giles is at 190mm. What is the associated chord length ?
(At the wing/fuselage interface).

Thanks,
Paul

rjbranchii

Paul

Yes, it measured aft from the leading edge intersection with the fuse. The airfoil is about 425mm leading to trailing edge at the fuse. The max thickness is 60 mm located about 140mm aft the leading edge. The comparisons may or may not help you. As has been mentioned in the thread, the wing position on this model is not fixed. It is able to move fore and aft. To balance this model you mount all your gear, then slide the wing for or aft until it balances in the range you are looking for on the wing and then you fix the wing position. That is why you see motors ranging from 32 0z to heavy 38 and even 40cc gas motors with pipes being able to be balanced without alot of shuffling components around or adding lead to get it to balance. I do not believe I have read any post of anyone having added lead to balance the plane no mater what the powerplant. Also this is a purpose designed 3D plane that also flies nice IMAC precision type patterns, but its design purpose in life is 3D flying so the cg may be further aft on the airfoil than a Giles designed with IMAC precision flying as the primary design purpose. Hope this help you some.

bob

747-RCU

My Feedback: (22)

Maiden flight was successful. It was a bit windy and grey, hazy humid and I wasn;t feeling 100%, but couldn't resist any more.
Anyways took it out, and had a very easy flight with it, it flies like on rails, plenty of power with the setup, I didn't have to adjust any trims at all. I am still a bit on the nose heavy side 9.5 inches, I just wanted to get the feel for the plane, so tried the F3A intermediate sequences and it did it really well. It had some wing rock in harrier flight, the knife edge flight was a breeze, no pulling towards the gear or canopy. This thing floats for ever on landings, it almost felt like it needs some down stick to settle on the ground.
First flight no hard throttle or vertical pullups was 8 minutes, after I charged my batteries, I put back 1550 mahs, the batteries or the motor were not even warm. Second flight I pushed it a bit hard and tried some rolling circles and some hovering, I couldn't get it to lock into a hover for more than a few seconds, I think I need to go back on the CG a bit. Elevators are rock solid straight down with no issues and it bails out when given a slight amount of throttle. The gear survived both landings, I have put a 3/16 wood dowel in the legs.
I like this plane and I think as soon as I find the perfect CG spot, It should serve me well.
Thanks again to all who helped. HEre are a few pics I took today at the field. Oh BTW, after I was done putting the battery trays and all, the weight is around 9lbs and 5 ozs.
The motor has great power, but since its designed for F3A, I canot swing more than a 18x12 prop, so I might try some other motor better suited for torque

rjbranchii

747-rcu

Excellent! Congrats! I'm waiting on a new motor. Should be here for the weekend. Turned out the cam gear on my OS 200FS was not assembled correctly. Ugly result. No quibbles though, they are sending me a new one at no charge. I fly alot of electric up to .46 size motors but nothing larger for now. I love them for just popping in the car and running down to the local field for a few quick evening flights.... but there is always at least one in the car when I go to the field to fly glow as well. Lots of good stuff out there now for electric RC. I fly electric CL aerobatics as well. Electric is just in its infancy in that arena but has some real positives. Lots of development looking at different philosophies at this point. Enjoy the bird & keep us posted on your power plant development.

bob

Paul_BB

Hi Bob,

Thanks, my Giles is not 3D, it has a NACA64014 airfoil. I'm a bit confused about the CG location as given by the manufacturer because someone at my club told me it was flying with a high pitch attitude. I flew it twice and it did'nt seem to be unstable. Also the wing has a particular design with a straight trailing edge and a swepted leading egdge so the overall resulting neutral point, as measured at the wing root, seems to be too aft. I've modeled the plane with its NACA airfoil on Mark Drela's AVL program that confirms the manufacturers CG location. I'm gathering informations just to be sure.
The attitude is not given by the CG location but by the airplane's geometry, airfoil, mass and speed. That's what I'm sure about now.

Thanks again,
Paul

rjbranchii

Paul

I had a plane fly like that this spring. It was an electric biplane. The cause was I had misaligned the battery with the marks I had placed in the balance location and had it way tail heavy. Try rolling it inverted and see what the plane does. If it climbs the cg is too far back. I like them dead neutral but most planes require a tad of down elevator to hold inverted level flight at the cg manufacturers recommend. For a non 3D plane, and others are free to chime in on this, I have seen a very fine edge between dead level inverted with no control throws and too tail heavy and ready to tip stall at slow speeds. I have noted, and it happened on this plane, that the manufacturer originally stated the CG incorrectly and subsequently corrected it. My guess is sometimes they may never get corrected. Good luck

bob

747-RCU

My Feedback: (22)

Thanks Bob,
Yes, the electrics are ncie for sure, no hassle, just put the wing on and takeoff. No vibration and no grease to cleanup.
Mine came out to 9lbs 5 ozs, which is very very light.
I just need some good weather to ring it out, but lots of rain all the time.

rjbranchii

747-rcu

Yup, same weather systems here in the Detroit area this year. Need floats to access our field many days. At least its not like Iowa... those folks really have had some rain.

bob

rcgood

Does anybody have a canopy for this airframe I can buy?

rjbranchii

Now that I have some airtime I thought I'd report on the OS 200FS combination. I won't repeat how the plane flies. That has been pretty well put forth in all the previous posts. I have nothing to add that hasn't been said. Its a wonderful bird. Glad OMP found a way to get some more to us. The OS 200 is a really good match for the plane as I thought it would be. Weight wise its right about the same as the OS 1.6 two stroke. I initially flew it with and 18 X 8 prop as that is what many have been flying with. I thought it would work fine, but I really got the motor so I could swing a 20 X 8. With the 18 X 8 it was very good. With the 20 X 8 its sensational. Does everything you could want with plenty of punch out. Only negative I found was OS states it runs fine on 10% nitro. That is bunk. Just like any other 4 stroke it needs YS 20/20 fuel. Anything less gives trouble getting a good needle ... same stuff you always find trying to run a four stroke on anything else.

Weight wise I wasn't really very concerned since I was running one of the lightest motors and had the ability to turn a big prop. I did the plate gear mount with carbon fiber aftermarket gear mod that has been outlined by several folks previously. Have done one drop in landing with no issues to the airframe. A bit more elevator expo for landing solved that issue. Just a light airframe with alot of elevator authority. I'm running large Hitec digitals and have no issues there. Nice bird. If you can get your hands on one do it. Put the motor in it that makes the most sence and you are most comfortable with. Don't underpower it. EVERYTHING needs more power, especially 3D. Its nice to have enough that you don't feel you absolutely need more. Trying to underpower it and come out a little lighter is probably not the best way to go judging from the difference I saw between the 18 and 20 inch props.

As to the canopy, I'd check with OMP. They seem to be the best bet unless someone has a worn out one that they will part with. The bird has been around long enough that may happen. Good luck with your search.

bob branch

GarySS

My Feedback: (13)

GREAT REPORT BOB!!!!!! I'm tooting since I also have a NIB OS200s waiting to put in my Giles and I was having second thoughts about my decision. Do you have any RPM numbers with your 18x8 and 20x8 props? What brand props are you using? Do you think the OS200 is more powerful than say the OS 1.60 2-stroker?

rjbranchii

Gary

Yes, there is no question the motor has more power than the 1.6 as it will turn the 20 inch prop with authority. I have not finished breakin but last flight was pretty close to full power. I'm turning a 20X8 powerpoint at about 65 to 6800 rpm. Last tach was 65 but I was still several clicks from peak power and there was noticable increase when I dialed in the last couple of clicks. Even rich though the 20 X 8 is a noticable difference from the 18X6 or 8 that is more common with the 1.60. My guess is when the motor is fully broken in it will turn around 7K with the powerpoint. After breakin is complete I'll be trying Zoar in same size range. I have a 20X6 and a 20X8. My guess is I'll like the 8 better. At these rpms it that pitch seems to work fairly well in hover whereas it would be too much in smaller, higher rpm motors I am more used to... down' in the .90 range. I think you will be quite pleased. You will wind up with the wing all the way back or nearly so because of the light motor so don't do any trimming to the back of the cowl for the wing leading edge. You won't need to.

bob

GarySS

My Feedback: (13)

Interesting. Some of the early reports on the OS200 stated a 18x8 prop was about the best.........rivaling the Saito 2.20 with 18 pounds of thrust, but more recent posts don't support that. Maybe the 20% Nitro helps! I've got 4 gallons of it. Keep us updated! Any heat problems with the large props?

rjbranchii

Gary

zero heat problems.

bob

72

Mike, any chance you will ever have this airplane produced again?? I have the feeling that by the time I get mine put together and in the air, there won't be any more to buy. And any airplane that can generate 120 pages in this thread mostly all good would continue to sell. By the way, I have my Proyak flying and I am really glad I love it, cause I have 2 more kits of them in my workshop. That airplane is just too cool !!!! I think the 202 will be the same.