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Showtime

Old 10-30-2005, 02:16 PM
  #1176  
Barry Cazier
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Default RE: Showtime

raideron...Don't be afraid of the Showtime. I've never had a problem landing only when you make your downwind approach and turn into the wind. On that slow turn it will sometimes drop a bit. But if you keep the speed up moderately on the turn and then slow down as you make the approach, no problem. The Showtime lands very easily. Not a UCD or Mayhem, but very easy nonetheless.

Thanks
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Old 10-30-2005, 02:51 PM
  #1177  
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Default RE: Showtime

Hi,

Do you guys think that the Saito 125 will fit in the Showtime without much firewall and cowl hacking, Horizon state that the FA-125 is 152mm long which is 14mm longer than the current FA-120 which is 138mm in length. It is also 37mm longer than the Saito FA-100.

I just received my Showtime and so far am very impressed with the quality I have a plethora of questions though and will no doubt annoy the forum with all of my questions!!!

Has anyone used a Slimline inverted Pitts style muffler with their Saito 100? does this muffler increase, decrease or do nothing for power and will it fit under the ST cowl? My next question is the old pull pull rudder question obviously I am using my tried and true Saito FA-100 and would like to know if pull pull or rear servo mount? The manual shows the throttle servo mounted inside the airframe with the rudder servo. Do they both fit easily on the servo mount and does thepull pull servo need to be mounted dead center on the airframe?

I will not be using this plane for 3d, but for pattern practice and sport flying... perhaps a little taste of 3d like hovering about 10k's off the deck and the odd harrier, flat spin, K.E. etc...

Flip over and out!!!
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Old 10-31-2005, 10:05 AM
  #1178  
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Default RE: Showtime

Has anyone else had a problem with snapping out when elevator is pulled? I am having a tough time trying to fix this, almost lost it yesterday when pulling out of vertical down line, I forgot to be very light on the elevator,pulled too much up and it snapped to right once, then on second attempt it did it again,lucky I was high enough to save it on 3rd try, I had to cut throttle and just squeeze a little up to get it level. I double checked the latteral balance,elev. throws-I did notice the right elev. as traveling more, so I fixed that but it still does it. I tried elev.-spoileron mix(100% I think), that didn't matter. I did try doing outside loops and it didnt seem to do it that way,not sure what that means? I'm not sure what to try next other than move the CG back some more,which I was going to do anyway. I did notice some warp in one elev. half but it flys straight when level& ailerons seem to be set the same. Any ideas???
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Old 10-31-2005, 11:21 AM
  #1179  
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Default RE: Showtime

I think we all are talking about 2 different issues, the take off "dead-spot" and snap out when a fair amount of elevator is used. The take off&downwind turn issue I have not seen with over 30 flights, I have the "snapping" problem and I consider this way more serious, if you are doing a down-line with a slight amount of throttle and you pull up, the plane snaps right and goes inverted-not good at all, if I dont solve this it will probably be the end of it sooner or later as vertical downlines happen all the time, planned or un-planned. It also does the same snap in tight loops but usually on the top part so its not so scary but doesnt make you look good at all. Overall, this plane is definately worth the effort if it can be solved. I've read the whole thread(used the key words "dead spot" and "snap", the suggestions so far are: 1. elev to flap mix @20%. 2.)CG forward. 3.) elev. to spoileron mix.
Ive tried the elev.-spoileron mix but it didnt change a thing,guess I'll try the easiest things first: some elev-flap then CG forward-would like to hear from some"experts" on this.
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Old 10-31-2005, 12:09 PM
  #1180  
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Default RE: Showtime

no snapping for me.... but at higher speed....make sure you aren't giving full deflection (full 3D throws, etc.)
I've pulled mine pretty hard though with no snaps......
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Old 10-31-2005, 01:31 PM
  #1181  
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Default RE: Showtime

Hi all, I still have my S.T. in the box and have been reading about this snapping
problem which seems to happen and be more of a problem for some than others??
I was wondering if anyone has put the question to why or a fix on this problem to
Team RCU pilot Mike McConville?? I would but I'm not quite sure what to say since
my S.T. is still in the box... Anyway just a thought..
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Old 10-31-2005, 01:53 PM
  #1182  
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Default RE: Showtime

I think we all are talking about 2 different issues, the take off "dead-spot" and snap out when a fair amount of elevator is used. The take off&downwind turn issue I have not seen with over 30 flights, I have the "snapping" problem and I consider this way more serious, if you are doing a down-line with a slight amount of throttle and you pull up, the plane snaps right and goes inverted-not good at all, if I dont solve this it will probably be the end of it sooner or later as vertical downlines happen all the time, planned or un-planned. It also does the same snap in tight loops but usually on the top part so its not so scary but doesnt make you look good at all. Overall, this plane is definately worth the effort if it can be solved. I've read the whole thread(used the key words "dead spot" and "snap", the suggestions so far are: 1. elev to flap mix @20%. 2.)CG forward. 3.) elev. to spoileron mix.
Ive tried the elev.-spoileron mix but it didnt change a thing,guess I'll try the easiest things first: some elev-flap then CG forward-would like to hear from some"experts" on this.
I'm thinking that if it snapping to the same side everytime, then I would be checking to make sure the elevator on the side it is snapping to is moving at the same speed and the other side. I know you checked the throws, but how about are they equal in speed. If you do not have the elevator halves glued to the fuselage as some of us are doing and bolted to the wing tube as the book tells you to do, then maybe the stab is loose on the tube and rotating ever so slightly which means the alignment dowls will be somewhat sloppy.

Maybe you want to check the incedences of the stabs, are they equal? Just some idea's. If I can think of more I'll let you know
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Old 10-31-2005, 03:15 PM
  #1183  
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Default RE: Showtime

Hey, I mights well add that to the list of things to check,I haven't looked for a speed difference as they are the same type&age but who knows. I've seen a speed difference on a friends plane once. I inserted and glued in hardwood into the stab tube & drilled&tapped it for the 4/40 bolts& blue lock tight too. I dchecked the bolts on stab for loosening and none so far but the tube does seem to flex more than I would want,can see the gap opening up when doing that-I could glue it too, since I never have taken the stab off anyway-I will eventually try anything cause I need to feel confident with the plane if I ever want to get low with it-and I do with every plane if its there.
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Old 10-31-2005, 04:46 PM
  #1184  
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Default RE: Showtime

No "snapping" on my ST, although I only have about 15 flights on it.
My first suggestion (and easiest to fix) would be that's it's tail heavy.
Try a little nose weight...Move CG "foward" Good Luck!
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Old 10-31-2005, 06:17 PM
  #1185  
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Default RE: Showtime

Mixmaster - earlier this season I had a problem with my 27% H9 Cap 232 similar to what you're describing. I traced it down to the C of G being too far forward! It wasn't much forward of the recommended C of G, but moving it back a bit completely eliminated the snapping problem I was having - really tamed the beast. With the C of G too far forward, the elevator requires more throw to achieve the desired response. As a result the stab is more prone to stalling, losing effectiveness partially or totally. From what I saw, this was my problem, and maybe it's yours too. Suggest that you check your C of G - maybe it's that simple.
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Old 10-31-2005, 08:29 PM
  #1186  
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Default RE: Showtime

Too much elevator throw.
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Old 11-01-2005, 09:16 AM
  #1187  
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Default RE: Showtime

Interesting that yours snaps to the right and mine snaps to the left. I think we are all having the same problem but I did find a way to make it a little better. Epoxy your horizontal stabs in place and that will reduce it considerably. It will still be there but not nearly as bad. Also, don't forget to reinforce (pin) your landing gear if you are on a grass field. Half an hour of reinforcements will save you hours of repair later.

ME
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Old 11-01-2005, 09:35 AM
  #1188  
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Default RE: Showtime

Thanks for the ideas, I did look at the stab/elev's last night, fixed a little warp in the left elev. half, checked for speed differences-none. I took the slop out of the tube by wrapping some tape around the tube, there's no slop now but you can still see the stab pulling away from fuse at the leading edge if you push on leading edge( pushing parallel to fuse). I moved the CG forward some, I had it slightly behind the recommended. I'll fly it that way, if no change I'm going to try some elev.-flap mixing-heard that might fix it. Also heard it might be a wing loading issue which would be hard to solve, I have a Moki 1.35 in, would have to consider that in addition to going with carbon fiber wing tube & all the other parts I could change to carbon fiber/titanium. There is a lot of things left to try, I'll do the easiest first, hope I get it because I like this plane.
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Old 11-01-2005, 10:01 AM
  #1189  
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Default RE: Showtime


ORIGINAL: ItsShowtime

...don't forget to reinforce (pin) your landing gear if you are on a grass field
Do you have any pics of this reinforcement, or a better explanation on how to do it? Mine is starting to delamintae in the upper bends so I think I need it.

OAK
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Old 11-01-2005, 05:56 PM
  #1190  
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Default RE: Showtime

OK...You guys talking of reinforcing the landing gear JINXED ME!!! [:'(]

I read the threads, thought..na, not necessary. Checked things before flight and the gear was tight.
Well Guess What?? I was at a smaller field, mostly surrounded by trees, a little windy. My buddy wouldn't fly due to conditions, but that didn't stop me...no way! Got her down 5 or 6 times using (trying) different approaches. Well, the "last" one, was with the wind...came in a little...LOT hot and touched down (although greased in) too soon. CRUNCH! Tore out the gear, as usual, and the only reason I hate pants, punctured the bottom of the right wing panel, and clean through the left. THANKFULLY the rib spacing was right, so no damage to them...just the covering. The gear was a pretty clean break. Nothing I haven't tackled before...easy fix.

I still can't blame the design of the plane. I think they (the gear) are pretty strong. It was strictly pilot error. (did I just say that) She did take a pretty fast hit. I swear the brakes were locked...

My friend Joe, a beginner, got his wish. He's been complaining that he hasn't see me put one in yet. Well his wish was doubled when I folded the wings on my Folker VII park flyer, doing loops...boy that was fun.

Hope that all your landing were/are better...It's off to the building room for me...Cheers Guys!
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Old 11-01-2005, 09:31 PM
  #1191  
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Default RE: Showtime

I dont know why some of these are having bad snapping tendancys. mine had none. in fact it would wall and slide for about 30 ft in that position. but a friend had one of the H9 260s that experienced that problem. we worked on it and worked on it. he finally sent it back and H9 sent another , the new one did not snap... ODD .. on mine i did notice that i had to use alot of aileron trim to fly straight... after pulling wings off i aligned the aileron on each wing half to the TE of the inboard part of the wing then looked at the other end down the wing (like you would a pool cue) BOTH of my ailerons were warped.. I fixed with an iron and an old door. i clamped it to the door and heated with the iron and presto straight ailerons . it curd my aileron trim problem.. even tough this may or may not be related to your problem . it will help loads on the flying.. i recall a few others that had theirs warped too.. i also used an incedence meteron mine and it was dead nutz all the way around
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Old 11-01-2005, 11:24 PM
  #1192  
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Default RE: Showtime


ORIGINAL: drumbum

I dont know why some of these are having bad snapping tendancys. mine had none. in fact it would wall and slide for about 30 ft in that position.
Mine also does the wall, harriers, elevators, and transition to this into hover without problem. However the few times I have had it snap on me is with LIGHT elevator input as many others have described also.

OAK
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Old 11-02-2005, 02:13 AM
  #1193  
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Default RE: Showtime

Hrm...
Plane flies good but has a snap tendency...esp on walls.

I was doing walls on mine and after about 5 really good looking ones, it snapped and veered to the left. I was about 3 feed above the ground when this happened so all I could is try to level the wings.

It hit the ground, broke gear, damaged the fuse and the firewall took a little hit...

definatley not the best 3-d plane... I guess wing loading is high, or maybe their is just some snapiness inherited in the design.
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Old 11-02-2005, 09:32 AM
  #1194  
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Default RE: Showtime

I'll try to get a picture taken of the way I pinned and reinforced my landing gear tonight along with a detailed description of how and what I did. Also wondering, have any of you experimented with gyros in your showtime?

ME
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Old 11-02-2005, 09:44 AM
  #1195  
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Default RE: Showtime

Although I have yet to run into it, I wonder if the "dead spot" some people are talking about in the elevator is what is actually causing this "snappiness". As I mentioned I have not seen either of these problems BUT, I had to replace the 110 on the second flight because it dropped a valve so now I a brand new OS108 in it and am getting it broken in so I have not been really hard on the plane just yet. During the maiden and what I did get to do in the second flight, I did several walls and touch and goes and had no problems at all.

Now when I do my walls, I come across the field, chop throttle and let the plane slow a bit, then blip a bit of throttle and pull vertical all at the same time, So I wonder if the "blip of throttle" is helping to stop it from snapping by keeping airflow over the elevators nad inboard on the ailerons. Guess I'll try to do a wall with the blip and see
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Old 11-02-2005, 12:49 PM
  #1196  
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Default RE: Showtime

You may not want to read this because I don't own a Showtime.
However, most complaints about models snapping are related to excessive elevator throw or low speed such as snapping out at the top of a loop. For non-stalled aerobatic maneuvers I set my elevator low rate low enough to do any maneuver without snapping but still have enough throw for a reasonably slow landing. As you can see in the Chip Hyde CAP-X photo below it doesn't take much, that's my max throw on low rate. This applies to my other heavy weight snap prone models like my two Katana 140's and a Sig CAP 231EX.

On the other hand, using low elevator rates to do some 3D maneuvers such as a wall is inviting sure fire snaps. You need the leverage of high rate elevator to get both wings to stall quickly and nearly simultaneously to avoid having one wing stall and flip the model over.

Caps and some other aircraft are known snappers but you live with it and feel it coming and you can avoid it. Just think, there may be nothing at all wrong with the Showtime. It is what it is but it may not be what you hoped it to be.
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Old 11-02-2005, 02:35 PM
  #1197  
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Default RE: Showtime

Its true if I do a larger loop(less elevator pull)there is no snapping,however most planes I've had can do tighter loops, even the U-Can-Do does very tight loops without flap mixing and does not snap. I'm beginning to suspect the fix will be the wing,not the stab/elev.I've got a list of things to try next time out,some my ideas,some from others.
1.) try elevator-flaperons mix while looping&walls.
2.)to test the elev. throw theory, I could make the left half have more throw than the right to see if it starts snapping left(snaps to right now).Might sound stupid, but its easy to try.
3.Move CG forward and/or aft-can do this at the field fairly easy-have plenty of tie-wraps&velcro straps.
4.)Could stick on a little weight to left wing tip to see what that does???
5. I have increased the expo on elev. to 100%,will see if that helps(it was at 70% before)using triple rates,do most of my flying in the middle(3-D and sport/pattern) I haven't found much use for the extreme high throws yet, ail&elev seem to be plenty sensitive at 80% throw.
I've read the SFG's help this also, I think they are kind of big though,not good for all kinds of wind,I have a spare set-been thinking about cutting them down a bit.
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Old 11-02-2005, 09:08 PM
  #1198  
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Default RE: Showtime

ORIGINAL: bubbagates

Although I have yet to run into it, I wonder if the "dead spot" some people are talking about in the elevator is what is actually causing this "snappiness". As I mentioned I have not seen either of these problems BUT, I had to replace the 110 on the second flight because it dropped a valve so now I a brand new OS108 in it and am getting it broken in so I have not been really hard on the plane just yet. During the maiden and what I did get to do in the second flight, I did several walls and touch and goes and had no problems at all.

Now when I do my walls, I come across the field, chop throttle and let the plane slow a bit, then blip a bit of throttle and pull vertical all at the same time, So I wonder if the "blip of throttle" is helping to stop it from snapping by keeping airflow over the elevators nad inboard on the ailerons. Guess I'll try to do a wall with the blip and see
im not too sure about that theory because i came in about mid throttle and just banged mine for walls.... I had i a YS 110..

this is why i think its puzzling because so many different people are reporting different scenarios.. I am working on showtime #2 now im curious to see if it flies alot different than showtime # 1. If so i would like to know what the difference is. if I could find out what is different i could figure out why some snap some do not. including my friends H9 260 that did.
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Old 11-02-2005, 09:16 PM
  #1199  
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Default RE: Showtime

Hi,

Horizon have replied back about the Saito 125 but now I am really confused as they say it is 125mm but is slightly longer than the current FA-120.

Cheers,
Sam.

Sam,

Thank you for your email. The 125mm distance is from the front of the drive collar to the back of the carb. It is slightly longer than the FA120. The motor mount is a universal mount and should work fine.
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Old 11-02-2005, 09:57 PM
  #1200  
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Default RE: Showtime

ORIGINAL: rcflip

Hi,

Horizon have replied back about the Saito 125 but now I am really confused as they say it is 125mm but is slightly longer than the current FA-120.

Cheers,
Sam.

Sam,

Thank you for your email. The 125mm distance is from the front of the drive collar to the back of the carb. It is slightly longer than the FA120. The motor mount is a universal mount and should work fine.
It has to be longer for the extra stroke . the crank has more stroke thats how you get extra displacement besides bigger piston,, but with a bigger piston the extra displacemnt will not produce as much power as extra stroke, so im guessing this is the way they did it.. also using a longer rod (wich by the way does not produce more stroke) makes more torque. but with a downfall. the longer rod in a small case creates more side load on bearings.being longer is because the crank is thicker for the stroke created. just my theory from building drag motors. i guess the made it a little longer to relieve some of the side load because it probably has larger bearings too
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