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Showtime

Old 07-12-2006, 08:26 PM
  #1726  
lodomjr
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Default RE: Showtime

Gentlemen,

I'm having trouble with my Showtime flying inverted. I have the C.G. set correct and I have also installed gator wing adjusters to correct any trimming on the ailerons. I have set the wings to a positive 1 degree in reference to the stab. When I roll over and fly inverted my Showtime really heads for the ground and you have to hold a lot of down to keep it level. I hoping that one of you fellows out there can give me a little help.

Larry
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Old 07-12-2006, 09:17 PM
  #1727  
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Default RE: Showtime

Well, I don't noticed that in my plane. My Showtime is a little tail heavy, but I don´t have problems except in some lands with low fuel.

Anyway, I did not set the attack angles or installed something to correct any trimming on the ailerons. I just finished the model and put it in air.

Perhaps your mods are harming your Showtime.

Try to get the original configuration of attack angle!!!
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Old 07-12-2006, 09:44 PM
  #1728  
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Default RE: Showtime

I agree with HoverLow. It's probably the one deg. positive angle.
If that one degree adds lift when flying level and the elevator is
trimmed for level flight, when you go inverted...look out!
I also just assembled and flew her. I believe this plane should be straight
and neutral. Get rid of the one degree.
Good Luck!
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Old 07-13-2006, 09:25 AM
  #1729  
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Default RE: Showtime

Hi fellas:

Some of mine at the field in cyprus: You will notice the american flag covers up the Mike McConnville Design stickers. I feel kinda bad about that (Sorry Mike), but couldn't find a more suitable place and it being close the fourth and all, I had to show the colors out here!

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Old 07-13-2006, 09:45 AM
  #1730  
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Default RE: Showtime

Nice pics!

What engine?
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Old 07-13-2006, 09:57 AM
  #1731  
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Default RE: Showtime

YS 110--running really fine
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Old 07-13-2006, 10:57 AM
  #1732  
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Default RE: Showtime

isaacslaw ... She looks good.... I did the same with my flag..... But for some reason
unknown to myself I installed it blowing towards the front[:@]..
I asked for advertiseing fees... No answer....Sooooo

No problems with your firewall/pitts???

I "almost" lost mine on Wed. morning... Was going to Las Vages early, But thought I'd
get a couple flts. before..... So was out at the field at sunrise... Got in two flts. Anyway
the K.E.'s have been so easy and true at higher speed at about 5'.. I'm just itching to do
a -1' H.A. K.E. down the runway... But I have had problems in the past... Anyway on my
last flt. I was going for it, while heading up field for my turn back down the runway, I was
about 5' up so I went into the K.E. Then I went into "dumb thumbs" went the wrong way
on the rudder[:@]... I released the input... she was still "falling" towards the ground slowly
in a K.E.... I guess I went into a... "Why did I come this morning mode" and I was just
watching the plane head in a K.E. to it's demise, without any more correction on the inputs????
I did roll it up right, but watch it drop groundwards to within 1-2'???? Finally I come to my
senses and pull her out and brought her in.... I don't know what made me just "freeze"
like that.... I guess I have to stay 3' and above...... Thought I was never going to get to
try the SFG's.... But.. I still can
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Old 07-13-2006, 11:02 AM
  #1733  
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Default RE: Showtime

no problems as yet -- I dremmelled out the bottom one fourth of it and it is exposed to the air -- I am still concerned about it but put a layer of glass cloth down in the front of the compartment -- the YS kept cracking the wood there from the vibrations. The glass cloth added much stability and so far, I have not seen fuel in there at all. The pitts sounds really good with the 110 -- kind of like a nascar type thing, but I think that might just be my enthusiasm
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Old 07-13-2006, 11:29 AM
  #1734  
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Default RE: Showtime

Yeah, I bet she sounds sweet... I wanted to use the S.L. pitts.... But....
Keeps us updated...... Have fun!!
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Old 07-13-2006, 01:46 PM
  #1735  
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Default RE: Showtime

fellas:

A quick question for everyone -- I really hope someone understands this. The showtime flies a bit nose heavy in that when inverted, it is losing altitude -- 1/4 - 1/2 down elevator -- from neutral to fly level and a medium speed. On landing (now I've had a couple more flights today), the plane will not decend. I cut power and try to set up a glide path, but no go -- tailheavy, right? I have to give down elevator and sort of throw it at the ground in order to land (and the landings aren't pretty let me tell you -- everyone gets an ulcer just watching them). This sounds so contrary to what people are experiencing with the Showtime I have to wonder what could be wrong -- I believe the CG might be a bit rearward -- maybe one fingertip backwards. The incidences all around are at zero or .3 degrees or so -- nothing more than .4 from any one surface. Im truly stumped, and do not have enough experience as a pilot to understand what is going on.
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Old 07-15-2006, 11:26 PM
  #1736  
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Default RE: Showtime

Isaacslaw,
I'm just throwing ideas out here could it be engine thrust, too much up thrust? You don't mention but does it require down elevator trim for straight and level flight? How is drive shaft incidence compared to your other surfaces? This is very strange, mine lands hands off until flare, best landing plane I own.


[sm=spinnyeyes.gif] Now completely off subject; have you all seen this amazing video of Bill Hempell's one wing knife edge landing?
http://my.break.com/Media/View.aspx?...nelName=movies
or
http://view.break.com/128241

(edited to fix link)
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Old 07-16-2006, 01:46 AM
  #1737  
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Default RE: Showtime

yes, sounds tail heavy to me. Could be thrust lines but I would think the issue would be there all the time if it was thrust lines. both normal flight and inverted.

I land my show time just by throttleing back and gliding in. I do usuall require little or no up elevator to flare it. just let it glide in. and it should set up its own approach without adding in any elevator at all if it starts to stall I just add some power or a hair of down elevator to keep from stalling. I admit this plane lands a little different than anything else I;ve flown but it shouldn;;t be hard. if it is giving you "ulcers" I'd say move the CG forward a little.
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Old 07-16-2006, 03:04 AM
  #1738  
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Default RE: Showtime

Hey isaacslaw,

In what area on the front of the compartment the YS kept cracking the wood? Do you have a pic of it? I have a YS 110 also haven't install it yet but want to reinforce it first, some of the guys did add extra wood to the firewall but your the first to apply glass cloth. Also how much weight add the pitts compare to the stock muffler that comes with the YS? Thanks.
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Old 07-16-2006, 12:01 PM
  #1739  
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Default RE: Showtime

Hey isaacslaw,
I'm just thinking if it doesn't want to land it sounds more nose heavy than tail heavy. A nose heavy plane doesn't want to slow down for landing so you have to fly them to the ground for a fast landing. Now tail heavy is going to cause extremely touchy controls and have a very snappy feel akin to balancing the plane on the end of a broom stick.

*How does it balance dry, both inverted and wheels down?

* Now here is another thought, are you trying to land with flaperons or spoilerons or any other mix? I had some dialed in for one landing by mistake and it was an ulcer experience.

*How does the plane react at different throttle settings? If trim is always changing to maintain straight and level flight it could be a thrust issue. This could also be caused by things moving around inside the fuse, so check that everything is secure. Some guys have also had issues with the stabilizers wriggling, check these and wings are secure.


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Old 07-16-2006, 02:20 PM
  #1740  
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Default RE: Showtime

Lost my Showtime to flutter also on my madien voyage running hs-545bb too bad for me
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Old 07-16-2006, 06:27 PM
  #1741  
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Default RE: Showtime

OUCH!! Sorry to hear that Cooper 1. I often worry about flutter on those hugh control surfaces.
I'm using Futabo 3305 on the rudder, 3010s on elev. and ailirons. So far no problems, even though there is considerable slop in these servos. My Saito .91 doesn't pull it along that fast either...
If it's any consolation...I put in my Laser 200 two weeks ago. Totaled! Strictly pilot error...

Hey Isaacslaw, That was an incredible video...Thanks!
You may not believe this, and I wouldn't if I hadn't seen it for myself, but I watched a hugh glider loose a wing panel on launch when he whipped it off of the tow line. Somehow the pilot kept the thing level and circled it in for a perfect landing. UNBELIEVABLE!! The wing "tube" was a solid 1/2" carbon fiber rod, and it had sheared off flush with the fuse. Just thought I'd share that...

F.Y.I... My Showtime is still flying like a champ. (knock,knock) I love this airplane!
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Old 07-16-2006, 09:19 PM
  #1742  
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Default RE: Showtime

Thanks a heap everyone for the very thoughtful replies. I have thought about this a lot, until I realized that it's not thinkin, but measureing that's gonna figure this out. I have had a "Fascination" which is a fully semetrical airfoil pattern type ship and it was very easy to land. I recently have been flying a world models super sports 40 that is also very easy to land, but a bit fast. When the showtime is coming in, I do my usual fly the pattern, then on the downwind, throttle to 1/4 or so, turn at the base and turn on final, chopping the throttle to just a hare above idle. With my other 2 planes, this would establish a glide path with the nose level or slightly down. The showtime slows up very quickly and the tail drops -- then the wings sort of go side to side and I wind up over-corecting like I'm having my first landing ever-- then bounce, bounce, bounce stop.

During normal flight, (only 3 flights so far), it seems to be alright -- sensitive on the elevator, but good roll rate -- needs a little less down aileron compared to up aileron. The rudder is CRAZY -- I bumped it when I was throttling up for a straight up climb and did a snap roll looking kind of thing that I thought was a radio glitch or hit it was so fast. It flies upside down as described previously. After thinking about it, I thought that I would move the CG forward a bit. SO I rechecked it and it was a bit back from recommended. I had the batteries just behind the turtle deck and moved them to the wing tube, rechecked and the cg had moved to about the recommended -- about 1/2 inch forward -- We will see how it goes maybe today.

I had thought that maybe there was up thrust, but really the plane doesn't show any other signs -- eg sinking fast with power off -- it seems to need a touch of right thrust, but not really very much of that -- maybe one washer--two at most. I will check the incidence of the thrust line with respect to the tail and wings next time I have the cowl off and report back to you folks.

One problem I am having is the inability to precisely measure the cg -- pretty basic I know and inherently at the root of this problem, I suspect -- My GreatPlanes CG machine is just a smidge too short to handle this plane so I marked the wings and have been using fingertips -- I did come across an interesting way of doing the CG by "TOR" with using a digital scale I'm going to try.

Thanks again everyone -- I am reading all of your input intently.
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Old 07-16-2006, 09:25 PM
  #1743  
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Default RE: Showtime

Hellblaster:

I am not the first to put down glass cloth -- I think there was a fella earlier in the thread who used a half-round cardboard tube as a guide and put down some cloth over that. My YS110 came to me used and only included the pitts style muffler -- no stock one. Therefore, in puting the motor in, I had to remove about 1/4 of the bottom of the firewall, to allow the muffler to be connected -- it still isnt quite right as the pipes come out at about a 20-30 degree angle to the side instead of straight down. THe wood that was cracking was the bottom piece -- not the firewall. I suspect it cracked because my YS shakes very very much (working on that) and I removed the support of the firewall and I believe the motor was shaking so much that the muffler was coming into contact with the wood during the vibrations. Anyway -- The glass cloth was put down on the front floor of the showtime so that the wood would be stronger and also as a preventative against fuel coming in -- it's not sealed and is open in places. I vowed not to take pictures of it cause its an ugly job and I'm really not too proud of it, but will take some shots today sometime and post them with a flight report hopefully.
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Old 07-17-2006, 02:40 AM
  #1744  
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Default RE: Showtime

Cooper 1,
Im sorry for your lost I will be sad if I crash my Showtime on the maiden, all that work to have it ready and not much time to enjoy it. [&o]
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Old 07-17-2006, 03:09 AM
  #1745  
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Default RE: Showtime

isaacslaw,

Thanks for your answer, now I understand the area of the crack, yes I know that other guys have used glass cloth to strength the firewall but not for fixing a splited firewall where I was thinking it was the crack. I know that the YS 110 are very angry engines. About the pitts thanks for making it clear I didn't know I will have to remove part of the bottom of the firewall to allow the muffler to be connected, I'll stay with the stock. Some guys here use 2c engines and they have to do the same for the big mufflers. About the pictures thats OK you don't have to, you make it clear to me the area of the crack. If you still take them don't worry how it look, !QUOT!A pilot have to do what a pilot have to do to fly again!QUOT!.
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Old 07-17-2006, 06:33 AM
  #1746  
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Default RE: Showtime

For all you guys out there that are running the YS110 and are concerned about the vibration, Central Hobbies sells a soft mount from Chip Hyde that does the trick. I am running one on my Quest and the there is little vibration transmitted to the airframe. Central Hobbies.com
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Old 07-17-2006, 12:26 PM
  #1747  
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Default RE: Showtime

Good & Bad News:

Got in one flight today -- one touch and go and one regular landing -- the forward cg makes the plane completely different when landing -- oddly enough, not that much difference to me in the air. Strange. It settled right in on a rather steep and slightly fast glide path (I think I got it just a bit too forward) and settled nicely down on the the runway.

Bad: I discovered that I have cracked the landing gear -- I am sure this is from the bounce bounce bounce landing from the other day, and the gear flex enough to break the wooden prop I am using. NUTS! Now I have a couple more props ordered and should make it here by the weekend, but maybe someone around here has a 16X6, I don't know -- My engine is so perfect now, I don't want to change propellers at all. Does anyone know-- I read in the Extra 260 thread that that gear "delaminated" and the fix was just some thin CA glue into the cracks -- can I just do that? or do I have to get new landing gear? It has hairline looking cracks at the bends which allow the gear to flex just a bit too much
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Old 07-17-2006, 02:53 PM
  #1748  
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Default RE: Showtime

I would say do as the extra 260 thread says and leave it over night, in the moring just test flex the gear and make sure that both sides have equal strength. Be sure to use alot of pressure on the gear
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Old 07-17-2006, 02:59 PM
  #1749  
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Default RE: Showtime

If the gear is weak and still flexes a substantial amount go ahead and buy another one as you would probably rather be safe than sorry.
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Old 07-18-2006, 05:44 PM
  #1750  
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Default RE: Showtime

I have had the same problem with the gear cracking. I just used some slow cure ca and let it sit for a bit then flew the thing again. Has not cracked is the same place yet, but I have been getting better at greaseing the landings now. I did almost kill it the other day. The weight that I had in the nose to blance the plane must have come loose while I was doing a wall and slid all the way to the back! I have a saito 125 in the nose and all the servos in the tail. Well it did help with the hovers and the harriers, It was cool until I had to land the thing, but it made it down in one peice and I only had to put some glue in the gear again (different spot) and put the weight back in and this time I siliconed it for the next time.
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