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Great planes ultimate 160

Old 01-16-2008, 05:08 PM
  #4726  
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160

Jim, what did you do to strengthen your wings/wing joiners? And how has it held up?


Tom
Old 01-16-2008, 05:11 PM
  #4727  
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160

nothin... box stock... and I fly the ass off of it !!! (knock wood)
Old 01-16-2008, 05:28 PM
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160

That's good to hear. I just got done adding 2-1/2" glass tape top & bottom on the lower wing and sandwiched fiberglass batten stock into the supplied joiner blocks before epoxying them in and the wings together with West System epoxy& 205 slow hardner thickened with chopped glass flocking (think of it as four hour epoxy - for better or worse). Added maybe two ounces of weight but (I hope) strengthened the wing roots considerably above stock & instruction manual. I also pinned the cowl blocks into the front fuselage former with 1/8" bamboo instead of relying on just epoxy.

Otherwise the model seems to be rugged and complete out of the box. All I've added so far is a pilot. I'm using all stock hardware. My only complaint is some twist and wringles/bubbles in the covering that defy smoothing. I'm pretty sure I melted and re-formed the foam turtledeck near the vertical stab under the covering with my heat gun and iron!
Old 01-16-2008, 07:54 PM
  #4729  
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160

Charlie P., What is "sandwiched fiberglass batten stock" and "chopped glass flocking" and where do you get them?

I'm not to hip on the carbon fiber. It seems like the stuff will cost a fortune and I will only use a small fraction of it. Leaving a buch left over...

I will no doubt fiberglass the bottom wing with 2 1/2" tape too. I thought about fiberglassing the top wing too but I am worried that I will have to remove a grand portion of the covering in order to feather edge it into not being seen or ugly. I'm nervous as I'm not too good with covering.

Tom

PS does any one know the specific part number for the recommended large dubro hinges and do I just do the tail section and use the stock ca hinges on the ailerons or do I put the pinned hinges in the ailerons too?
Old 01-17-2008, 12:18 AM
  #4730  
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160


ORIGINAL: fishdeth

nothin... box stock... and I fly the ass off of it !!! (knock wood)
Ditto...
Old 01-17-2008, 12:28 AM
  #4731  
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160


ORIGINAL: fishdeth


ORIGINAL: AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken

A pair of 5955's is way overkill for the elevator.
I just replaced the year and a half old 5945s in the tail (gear slop) with 5955TGs , overkill, but I'll not have to replace them again.
Titanium gears... no more slop !
Troy Built Models has them for $89.00

$.02,

Jim

I hear ya Jim. My point was more towards the amount of torque needed.

A pair of 5645/5945's put out 300+oz which is WAY more than is needed. A pair of 5955's would make a great jack if you get a flat on the way to the field.

Jeff
Old 01-17-2008, 12:35 AM
  #4732  
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160


ORIGINAL: twn

PS does any one know the specific part number for the recommended large dubro hinges and do I just do the tail section and use the stock ca hinges on the ailerons or do I put the pinned hinges in the ailerons too?
[link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD940&P=7]Dubro Pinned hinges[/link]

The stock CA hinges are fine if you install them properly. This means removing the covering around the slot and drilling a hole in the center and using the proper amount/type of CA. CA hinges make some people nervous, but I think any hinge can fail if not properly installed.
Old 01-17-2008, 02:14 AM
  #4733  
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160


ORIGINAL: twn

I'm not to hip on the carbon fiber. It seems like the stuff will cost a fortune and I will only use a small fraction of it. Leaving a buch left over...

Tom

PS does any one know the specific part number for the recommended large dubro hinges and do I just do the tail section and use the stock ca hinges on the ailerons or do I put the pinned hinges in the ailerons too?
CF strips for this purpose are cheap (only a few doillars) and are concealed inside the wing(joiner) when done. Done with CF, no need to glass anything.

As for the Dubro HD hinges, go to Tower Hobbies and do a 'search' on them. They offer 2 sizes, use the larger HD ones on the Rudder & Elevator halves. Vibration will eventually mess up CA style hinges back there. It's only a matter of time.

Be sure to check out the various 'mods' we've done before building your GP Ultimate.....
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=6548501]Link to 'mods' users have done on the GP Ultimate 1.60 ARF....[/link]
Old 01-17-2008, 10:31 AM
  #4734  
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160


ORIGINAL: twn

Charlie P., What is "sandwiched fiberglass batten stock" and "chopped glass flocking" and where do you get them?
I ran the two plywood & balsa wing joiner blocks across a table saw to form a slot between the plywood and the balsa about 1/8" wide and 5/8" tall (leaving the plywood and cutting only the balsa). Into these slots I epoxied lengths of fiberglass strips - they were from the sail battens of a windsurfer. Flexible but very strong. Any place that sells small sails - as in for kayaks, windsurfers or sailing dinghys should be able to find you some cheap or free.

The flocking I use is milled fiberglass fibers - basically shredded & powdered tiny glass fibers. Added to epoxy the tiny fibers add quite a bit of mechanical strength; especially shear/tensile. From the images earlier in this thread it looked to me like the wing failures came when the upper surface of the block compressed and the lower stretched - allowing it to shear right along the wing seam. I affixed the fiberglass battens so they resist vertical loads and will not allow that to happen. Carbon fiber is higher tech than I get into. Certainly lighter, but for this application I figured fiberglass is good enough.

I painted the wing sockets and blocks in the epoxy mix with an acid brush and poured in a good amount in the wing, then pressed in the blocks. Quite a bit oozed out but, I hope, the result was no air pockets and a very solid plug. I set the strips in the blocks with 30 minute epoxy but used West System & 205 hardner to set the blocks and along the contact areas of the wing roots. That takes much longer to harden (four hours or more) and soaks into the wood better than the faster setting epoxies.

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Old 01-17-2008, 10:42 AM
  #4735  
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160

Anyone running Pro-Zinger 20X8 on the Fuji 43 with the stock spinner & bolt? I got my cowl on last night and assembled the prop/spinner and I only get four threads into the engine hub! That's kind of on the hairy edge of not enough IMHO. I checked the dimensions against the Fuji site and it is the proper bolt. Must be the Zinger is thicker than normal?? My 18X6 props are only 3/32" thinner, giving five threads, not much better. I'd be happier with 3/4" of the bolt threaded into the hub.
Old 01-17-2008, 12:06 PM
  #4736  
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160

The stock hinges will fail even if installed correctly. I lost half of an elevator in flight, luckily it was still easy to land with it hanging from the control rod! This is the third plane that has had CA hinge failures where the hinge cracked and fails at the bend point. Yes, I allow the correct space for flexing and I use the flexible CA designed for CA installs.

Best regards,
Randy
Old 01-17-2008, 02:09 PM
  #4737  
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160

I've used the following CA type hinges on aircraft for many years. Planes that i have completely punished have held up without any problem, with std and flex CA. The Sig or Great Planes type hinge material is inadequate by comparison, and appears to crack with age, then the vibration takes it from there and rips em completely apart.

http://www.radiosouthrc.com/pro-hinge.htm

Chad
Old 01-17-2008, 03:52 PM
  #4738  
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160

What I was thinking of doing was ripping the balsa wing joiner blocks in half just behind the 1/8 ply with a table saw. Add a piece of 1/8" aircraft grade 5ply to make up for the material cut out from the table saw and add in some of this (soaked in epoxy) http://www.greathobbies.com/producti...rod_id=CSTC213 all sandwiched together with 30min to 1 hour epoxy. Pressed with clamps.
Old 01-17-2008, 04:07 PM
  #4739  
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160


ORIGINAL: arobatx

I've used the following CA type hinges on aircraft for many years. Planes that i have completely punished have held up without any problem, with std and flex CA. The Sig or Great Planes type hinge material is inadequate by comparison, and appears to crack with age, then the vibration takes it from there and rips em completely apart.

http://www.radiosouthrc.com/pro-hinge.htm

Chad
The key here is to take a little more effort and balance the prop, spinner and tune your engine to where there is little or no vibration and you won't have any problems with the stock CA hinges. Also, keep the slop out of your servos to help prevent flutter.

Another trick here is to mark the centerline of the CA hinges on both sides with a #2 pencil before installation. The carbon provides a "flex" effect for the material. I used the provided CA hinge material when I built my Ultimate and they are still like new. I do check them after EVERY flight!!!
Old 01-17-2008, 04:10 PM
  #4740  
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160


ORIGINAL: arobatx

I've used the following CA type hinges on aircraft for many years. Planes that i have completely punished have held up without any problem, with std and flex CA. The Sig or Great Planes type hinge material is inadequate by comparison, and appears to crack with age, then the vibration takes it from there and rips em completely apart.

http://www.radiosouthrc.com/pro-hinge.htm

Chad
ABSOLUTELY !
If you want to do CA hinges (or just dont feel like messin with alternatives) Radio South 1/4 scale Pro Hinges are the ticket !
Been a year and a half and they are as ROCK solid as the day I installed them.
I added a few extra in crucial spots (check the MOD link above for pics.

Jim
Old 01-17-2008, 04:15 PM
  #4741  
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160


ORIGINAL: twn

What I was thinking of doing was ripping the balsa wing joiner blocks in half just behind the 1/8 ply with a table saw. Add a piece of 1/8" aircraft grade 5ply to make up for the material cut out from the table saw and add in some of this (soaked in epoxy) http://www.greathobbies.com/producti...rod_id=CSTC213 all sandwiched together with 30min to 1 hour epoxy. Pressed with clamps.
I did exactly this on mine....except with 1/4" ply substituted.
Old 01-17-2008, 04:16 PM
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160

I agree with you on the fine tuning....but I stand by my belief that the radio south pro hinges are superior by comparison. My ultimate is severely overpowered, so I didn't feel like chancing it with the OEM stuff.
Old 01-17-2008, 04:33 PM
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160


ORIGINAL: arobatx

I agree with you on the fine tuning....but I stand by my belief that the radio south pro hinges are superior by comparison. My ultimate is severely overpowered, so I didn't feel like chancing it with the OEM stuff.
What engine did you power it with? I have a Brison 3.2 on mine. IMO, that is one of the best setup's ever, but maybe I am being a little biased (bragging) because of the great job that it has done for me.
I'm not kicking Radio South at all, in fact, I use their products a lot.
Old 01-17-2008, 04:38 PM
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160

I'm the same way....and have had good luck with the OEM hinge material as well, when the model is properly setup. I simply prefer the radio south material, when I think of it ahead of time, or have the supplies on hand.

Mine has a lightened and modified G62 in it ...definitely not hurting for power. Properly tuned, the 62 isn't really much of a shaker, so it works well in the plane.

Chad
Old 01-17-2008, 04:38 PM
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160


ORIGINAL: twn

What I was thinking of doing was ripping the balsa wing joiner blocks in half just behind the 1/8 ply with a table saw. Add a piece of 1/8" aircraft grade 5ply to make up for the material cut out from the table saw and add in some of this (soaked in epoxy) http://www.greathobbies.com/producti...rod_id=CSTC213 all sandwiched together with 30min to 1 hour epoxy. Pressed with clamps.
Certainly sounds sufficient. Clamp lightly when using epoxy so you don't starve the fabic, or even when forming normal wood joints. Epoxy is a different bond than Titebond or CA glues and you need it to remain between the parts. Squeezing too much out is weaker than a slight gap filled with epoxy.
Old 01-17-2008, 06:01 PM
  #4746  
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160

Are the stock hinges fine for the ailerons? Should I get some 1" ca hinges or just go all over with the dubro hd.

arobatx, a G62 [X(] Thats insane! Do you have any video of yours in flight? I'd love to see!!

Old 01-17-2008, 06:06 PM
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160

Charlie P., thanks, yes I'll leave some epoxy in the lamination. I was only going to use the clamps to keep it all straight.
Old 01-17-2008, 07:18 PM
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160


ORIGINAL: twn

What I was thinking of doing was ripping the balsa wing joiner blocks in half just behind the 1/8 ply with a table saw. Add a piece of 1/8" aircraft grade 5ply to make up for the material cut out from the table saw and add in some of this (soaked in epoxy) http://www.greathobbies.com/producti...rod_id=CSTC213 all sandwiched together with 30min to 1 hour epoxy. Pressed with clamps.
Anyone,
Wouldn't just adding the plywood be enough? That would add a lot of strength.
Chuck
Old 01-17-2008, 07:37 PM
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160

I have done all of the above in setting up my new Arfs with CA hinges. I have 10 planes with CA hinges and have had 3 planes fail, never fatially. In anycase, it possible that that a prop may have become unbalanced after many flights but I have never had a true hinge fail under these same circumstances. After my first failure, I had a well meaning fellow flier instruct me on the correct installation of CA's and how he had never had a failure. 2 weeks later I seen him flying a different plane and found out he had lost the last one due to an airleron hinge failure.. the CA hinge broke exactly as mine had ( he still had the parts in his truck). I still fly the planes with CA hinges, but I inspect them every flight and will make the necssary changes as they exhibit fatigue.

Best regards,
Randy
Old 01-17-2008, 09:12 PM
  #4750  
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Default RE: Great planes ultimate 160

Is it nessesary to use the power expander sport plus? Or can I get away with y-harnesses, 2 2100 nimh, and a batshare.

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