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Great Planes Extra 330L

Old 11-04-2002, 11:17 PM
  #1  
rcpete347
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Default Great Planes Extra 330L

HI all ,just started my 330L from Great Planes.
I am planing to install a 78-3w twin and have two questions
1- what do you think of this plane
2-The instuctions say not to use more than a 10 inch pith prop on it because it might cause futter, I never heard of that before?
Thanks Rcpete
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Old 11-05-2002, 01:05 AM
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Default GP Extra

This is a very nice kit and will build into an excellent flying plane. The 3W will be a very nice engine for the plane.

Any plane will flutter in the wrong situation. Too much speed (related to prop pitch for one) can cause this. Any slop in the control linkage can cause this. Excessive speed (like on a down line or back side of a loop) can cause this. Not high enough torque servos can cause this. Any combination of the aforementioned can be disastrous. Throttle management is of utmost importance.

If this is your first giant plane get some assistance with building and set up.

EXCAP232
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Old 11-05-2002, 01:40 PM
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Tim_Indy
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Default Great Planes Extra 330L

RcPete, this is the second season I've flown my GP 330L and after almost 300 trouble free flights, I'm still sure I made the right choice (it's my first gasser.)

As EXCAP232 said, big aerobats are made for manuevering, and those large control surfaces don't take kindly to fast flying. That's the reason for GP suggesting no more than a 10 pitch prop, one that will make thrust, not speed. Most of my flying is at 1/3 to 1/2 throttle and the only time it sees more than that is on extended uplines.

Flight characteristics for IMAC type manuevers are excellent, and I fell it will be a good tool for Advanced and Unlimited class IMAC flying. It doesn't like upright elevators, and harriers, rocking the wings a lot. It does do inverted elevators and harriers, though with minimal wing rock. Torque rolls, waterfalls are well within its flight envelope, but it doesn't like pop-ups or parachutes. A big virtue is its tall fuse, which gives it tremendous yaw authority. It knife edges with zero roll coupling and minimal pitch coupling, and holds knife edge at maybe 1/2 throttle and 1/2 rudder stick. If you've got the power for the upside, knife edge loops are no problem. It's great yaw authority allows you to do slow rolls with a super slow (12+ second) roll rate, AND a slow airspeed to boot! This same yaw authority works to enhance all manuevers that use the fuselage as a lifting surface. For example, many planes do rolling circles, but this one will do a ONE TURN roller with GRACE! Point rolls? Forget 4 points, how about 8 pointers, and crisp 16 pointers? On my web page below, there's a short video clip of my Extra doing an opposite turn roller that illustrates the yaw authority, and stability of the plane.

The plane lands at a walking pace, and provides a forgiving platform that helps you fly manuevers that look GREAT. It'll do just about any manuever that you know how to move the sticks to do, and do it well.

Now, guess I'll tell you how I REALLY feel about it . I bought another one for a backup.

Keep me posted on your progress.

Tim
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Old 11-05-2002, 07:23 PM
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Default I am counting on...

Hello All,
I am counting on Mr. Kringle (AKA Santa) to bring my 2 big beautiful boxes filled with balsa and ply to create the Extra 330L. I plan to put Futaba servos in and a ZDZ80. I can't wait...

Justrfb (checking all my options)
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Old 11-05-2002, 11:16 PM
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Default 300L

Thanks Tim for the info
Do you think a 3W 78 is enought power for torqe rolls,also how much did your Extra weight.
Thanks Rcpete
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Old 11-06-2002, 01:05 AM
  #6  
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Default Re: 300L

Originally posted by rcpete347
Do you think a 3W 78 is enought power for torqe rolls,also how much did your Extra weight.
My GP Extra now weighs just over 24 pounds. I no longer have a TME smoke system (just didn't use it much) and I saved 9 ounces replacing a pair of 1500ma nicad receiver batteries with a single 2700ma niMH battery with twin leads for the dual receivers. Your 3w 78 twin weighs about a half pound more than my BME 102 twin. Mine torque rolls at maybe 1/3 throttle, so you'll have enough power to torque roll, but you won't have much left for a vertical pull out. Other manuevers won't suffer though.

If you already have the 3W 78, put her in there, it'll fly well. Having more power DOES make a difference, though. It allows you to fly slower and more realistically, since you don't need to build up momentum to do vertical stuff, rather you can power through the up stuff.

Tim
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Old 11-06-2002, 01:17 AM
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Default Great Planes Extra 330L

If you guys have seen Tim fly this plane in person like I have the opportunity to see all the time you'd witness just what this plane is capable of in the hands of a skilled pilot. Tim is the most talented precision pilot I have had the opportunity to see fly and the airplane is a perfect match for his type of flying... he's added a new definition in the dictionary for the term slow roll.
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Old 11-06-2002, 05:34 AM
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Default Great Planes Extra 330L

AAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! I WANT ONE!!!!!!!!! :cry:


Sorry for my outburst.... Tim...I've admired your Extra since the first time I saw a pic. I'm getting there...slowly. Got my Midwest done and flying good.....now starting to save money again for the GreatPlanes 330, which is my next trasition.

RcPete....congrats man. Your going to love it.

I'm a long time kit builder and have studied this kit since it came on the market, and this is one of the sanest kits I've ever seen, for an all wood GiantScale it's an amazing piece of work/art/engineering/etc.
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Old 11-06-2002, 11:22 AM
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Default It sure is a beautiful plane...

Tim,
You sure do have yourself a very nice looking plane! I too have been looking this plane over for quite a while now. I have to say that your plane, with the Pepsi theme on it is amazing. And from what I hear and see on your video clip on your webpage, I wish I could see you fly... Thanks for posting your plane and experience to the forum and webpage.
RcPete,
Good luck to you and hope to see more postings and info as you go along...

Justrfb (checking all my options...)
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Old 11-06-2002, 11:23 PM
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Default Great Planes Extra 330L

I too have seen Tim fly. I remember when he had his CAP with the ST2300 and Pepsi scheme. He was the one who talked me into joining club #288. I later took over his job of VP when his term was up. He is the kind of guy who takes up a new plane (Cermark Pitts) and spends 4 hours practicing landings to make sure that when he needs to land in a hurry, or under adverse conditions, he know what the plane will do!

He is also a really nice guy!
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Old 11-07-2002, 12:31 AM
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Default Great Planes Extra 330L

I am also planning on building one soon.

This is probably the best 33% option for the budget minded.
I'm going with a ZDZ80 which is a bit lighter than others,
I hope it doesn't make the plane tail heavy.
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Old 11-07-2002, 02:19 PM
  #12  
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Default Great Planes Extra 330L

Great thread. Iím framing up this exact kit right now. I also agree it appears to be very well engineered, and a good value for the size and quality. Iím a pretty slow builder, plus donít have tons of time unfortunately. So, mine wonít be done until next Spring. I did have several missing and damaged parts, but Great Planes customer service took care of it quickly. Iím planning to power it with a new Brison 4.8 twin that I already had. While this wonít provide the outrageous power to weight ratio some 3-D fliers require, Iím expecting it will be more than adequate for my style of flying.

That brings me to my first question. Iím going to be really watching the weight. No smoke or anything else thatís not really needed. Iím curious what any of you might have done to keep the weight down, plus wondering if any of you have tried any of the CF products in this model. Including landing gear, tail wheel assembly, wing tube, stab tube, etc. Iíve read kind of mixed reviews about the CF landing gears. I fly off of grass, so it canít be real fragile.

Second question. The instructions talk about two different LE profiles for the wing. Which ones did you guys use, and which do you recommend?

Third question. Did you double bevel the control surfaces? Iím personally not into really extreme 3-D. Iím wondering if this is really necessary for ďnormalĒ aerobatic flying, since the kit doesnít come with the materials and a couple minor modifications are required to do the double bevels.

Any feedback is appreciated!
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Old 11-07-2002, 09:49 PM
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Default Great Planes Extra 330L

Even though I don't have the plane (or anything even close to it) I would suggest you doudle bevel the edges just in case you get bit by the 3D bug. Better the do it now than to wish you had later on.
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Old 11-08-2002, 01:09 AM
  #14  
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Default Aw shucks!

David and Miles, (Geistware), you guys give the best compliments that money can buy! (check is in the mail!)

Tim
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Old 11-08-2002, 01:16 AM
  #15  
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Default Great Planes Extra 330L

LOL, I'll be looking for it....

Did you see my latest project Tim?

CA Models 27% Extra 300L: http://www.********.net/forums/showt...&threadid=3614
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Old 11-08-2002, 01:26 AM
  #16  
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Default Great Planes Extra 330L

Originally posted by EdwardB
Great thread. Iím framing up this exact kit right now.
Glad to hear it! In the two years I've been flying mine, I only saw 2 other GP 330s flying. I do, however, know that seeing mine fly caused 4 other guys to buy this plane.
Iím planning to power it with a new Brison 4.8 twin that I already had Iím going to be really watching the weight. No smoke or anything else thatís not really needed. Iím curious what any of you might have done to keep the weight down
Mine weighs just over 24 pounds, no smoke, no particular effort to save weight. Your Brison is a few ounces heavier than my BME 6.2, but should have no problem flying your 24.5 pound Extra.
The instructions talk about two different LE profiles for the wing. Which ones did you guys use, and which do you recommend?
I used the sharper leading edge on both of mine and still had a gentle non-snappy plane to fly, so I'm thinking the flight characteristics aren't radically different for either one.
Did you double bevel the control surfaces? Iím personally not into really extreme 3-D.
Nope, I didn't double bevel the elevators, and since I'm not into 3D, I don't miss them at all.

You're gonna LOVE this plane!!
Tim
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Old 11-08-2002, 01:30 AM
  #17  
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Default Great Planes Extra 330L

Originally posted by WreckRman2
Did you see my latest project Tim?
Yepper, and it looks MARVELOUS!!! Wreck, looks like you've got a winner there, can't wait to see it fly!

Tim

P.S. Great building thread!!
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Old 11-08-2002, 01:35 AM
  #18  
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Default Great Planes Extra 330L

Originally posted by lennyk
This is probably the best 33% option for the budget minded.
Maybe so, but flight characteristic-wise, it gives up almost nothing to the "high priced spread"
I'm going with a ZDZ80 which is a bit lighter than others, I hope it doesn't make the plane tail heavy.
Your ZDZ80 is only a few ounces lighter than my BME. I moved the rudder servos to the fuse and used a pull-pull and had ZERO balancing issues.

Tim
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Old 11-08-2002, 02:13 AM
  #19  
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Default Great Planes Extra 330L

I have one also. I have had it for about 2 years now and I have responded to afew posts on it like Tim. Mine has a 3w 100 on it that pulls it around with a 27-10 @ 6500rpm. The plane weighs 26.4 lbs with a smoke system. I like the plane alot and it was also my first gasser. I like to fly presition and 3d and this extra dose knife edged flight very well wich makes rolling circles and slow rolls very easy and brings confidence with every flight. In less than 2 years I am now able to do lots of varieations of rolling circles including 8 piont alternating rolling circles.I am not trying to brag but showing you how capable this plane is. Having a aerobatic platform with great rudder authority and little coupling will give you the confidence to keep trying the manuver. This plane is capable,with the right motor,of competing in all aspects of IMAC type competition.This plane also has its limitations. For true 3d type flying it is not that great mostly due to it not doing elevators, harriers and walls. Surprisingly with its fairly small elevator it torque rolls very well and I am able to back it down easily. If this is your first giant gasser you will have a great time. Good luck !!
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Old 11-08-2002, 03:06 AM
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rcpete347
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Default GP 330L

Hi everyone, I know the first mod I"ll do is drill the crap out of the landing gear, I did it to my 84 in Ohio Extra and cut the weight in half.
I also think I"ll put my 3w 100 in it .
I"LL post pics soon
Thanks Rcpete
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Old 11-08-2002, 12:01 PM
  #21  
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Default Great Planes Extra 330L

rcPete, I, too, have considered drilling the landing gear. I weighs over a pound, and it's rigid enough where you'd need almost a semi-controlled crash to get it to bend.

I'm thinking that 5 or 6 ounces can be safely removed, giving a gear that's a bit more flexible and can absorb shock better (saving the airframe). Of course, you'd occasionally have to slightly bend the gear back to it's original stance (maybe an inch or so) but that's no big deal, and worth the benefits.

3W-100? Now THAT'S more like it!!!!! Your flying can be more gracefly and reallistic with more power, since you can power through the up stuff, rather than needing momentum and speed to do them.

Another consideration is that since your 3W is a lot heavier than my BME, you can mount the rudder servos in the tail per plan with no balancing issues.

Tim
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Old 11-08-2002, 01:14 PM
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Default Great Planes Extra 330L

Did you guys use the aileron horn ply plate like in the manual ?

The manual seems to suggest using horns with screws which go
into the ply plate from one side only as opposed to going all the way through the builtup aileron.

I plan to put in a dowel or hardwood block so I can use a horn/bolt which goes straight through.

I am a bit suspicious of using a ply plate only since I saw a SIG Sukhoi which got flutter and the horn ripped out of the 1/8 ply plate.
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Old 11-08-2002, 02:14 PM
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Default Great Planes Extra 330L

Lennyk, I didn't like the ply plate either, and glued in a 1/2" by 1/2" basswood block to anchor my Rocket City 8-32 bolts.

Tim
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Old 11-09-2002, 02:40 PM
  #24  
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Default Great Planes Extra 330L

Hey guys,

The aircraft was built over the course of about nine months, and being my first Giant Scale IMAC plane, was given a LOT of TLC and time to be built straight, strong, and true. A ZDZ 80cc single was used for power and Hitec 5945 servos were used all around (two on each aileron) except for the rudder which used a 5735 mounted up front with pull-pull so that proper CG could be achieved without dead-weight on the firewall. Countless trips to the local Hobbytown USA (at one point we had completely bought out their insignia blue and white MonoKote) later, she was ready for the maiden flight. It was even taken up to a larger field so there would be no surprises.
On the first flight I was just blown away with this aircraft. It was so exact in every one of its maneuvers that I was "at one" with it after about two minutes of flight. Ten minutes later it was landed and some exponential and throw adjustments were made on the 8UAS transmitter. Three additional flights were made before it was disassembled and packed away.
The next night at our local field I was really falling in love with the aircraft. Sequences were so easy to do with amazing precision. On the seventh flight, I was starting to try some 3D. Torque rolls were incredibly easy and that little elevator was amazingly effective. Even the rudder was powerful enough to do 45-degree nose-up knife-edge at an incredibly slow airspeed.
I was finishing up my sequences and decided to work on my 3D repertoire a little bit. I pulled out of an idle power down down-line (with a 26-10 prop, downline braking was amazing), advanced the throttle to about 1/3, and then chopped it and popped in full-up on high rate for a wall. The plane pivotted up abruptly and with a sickening crack the right wing folded up, ripped off, and floated down. The fuselage continued in knife-edge and landed without a sound beyond view (it might have made a sound; I was too numb to hear it anyway). I was absolutely shocked. The walk to the wreckage is still a haze in my memory. I remember finding the wing and the fuselage completely destroyed. The full impact didn't really hit me until the ride home. On closer inspection it could be seen that the spars and sheet balsa ribs were completely shattered. The leading edge sheeting still had bits of the ribs glued to them as well as to the phenolic tube, so it could be seen that faulty glue joints were not the cause of the incident. Nine months of building and attention to detail gone because of poor wood selection. The aircraft was under pretty heavy g-load but nothing that could be called extreme. The aircraft would have pulled harder had the flier goofed up in a sequence and pulled out too hard.

It should be duly noted that AnnMarie Cross at Great Planes has agreed to look over the damage.
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Old 11-09-2002, 04:29 PM
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Default Great Planes Extra 330L

Cody.......ahh..man . So sorry to read about that, but it's a good thing to share it dude. It just might avert someone else from the same fate. Geez.... wow.. You are going to rebuild right? After some recovery time though, just take your time....or not... I lost an Extra that I was very attatched to also. Although it was smaller, I felt same way about it. I do know what "the walk" is like, all to well. Thinking back on it, it's like a dream-state, that wasn't even real, only when reality sets in....it happened, and is very real.

I do hope you rebuild...the second one always goes a bit faster(ask me how I know), and you'll already know what and how you want things to build a better ship.

GreatPlanes is great about checking into these things...I found this out after the fact, when I told them what happened they said "send it ALL back" and they'd look into it. Problem I had was I tossed it(after getting all my hardwares out, and a serious post-mortom), so I had nothing to send except pics of this Extra spread all over my shop floor. I did an FAA/NTSB investigation right on the floor of my shop, and yes I did find the cause(it works), and it was quite possibly due to weak stab wood that folded the rear stab. Even at that they(GreatPlanes) offered me a nice discount on another kit, I had already had one lined up though before I got home from the field on D-Day. They are good, and I won't hesitate to buy/build any of thier kits, and yes,,,this kit(the 330)will probably be the next one I buy, after the first of the year.

I wish you the best Cody, should you decide to rebuild...it can only be better. Good luck.
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