Btaff

My Feedback: (3)

I just picked up the July issue of "Fly RC" magazine and saw an add for the Zenoah 20cc Electric Ignition Gas Engine. The add states that the small Gas engine is designed for .60, .90 or 1.20 airplanes. The add goes on to say that the engine is right at home on the Funtana 90. I presently have a Saito 125 in my F90 and am very pleased with the performance. I'm running a Menz 16x6 prop and using 20/20 fuel. The Zenoah 20cc gas engine is rated to also run a 16x 6 prop. I want to break into gassers and this seems to be a good engine for this. It will not require a new plane and the thus the costs of conversion will be kept low. I've heard of modelers bolting DA50s to thier F90s and I've always felt that this is extreme.

I'm looking for opinions from all of you on the pros and cons of bolting this Zenoah 20cc engine on my Funtana?

Thanks,

Brendan

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Zenoah 20cc Electric Ignition Gas Engine Specifications:

Key Features

Electronic Ignition
Small & Lightweight
Easy Operation and Mounting
Excellent Power
Lower cost Fuel
New Magnesium Case
Fuel consumption is ½ that of a similar glow engine


Overview

Zenoah’s groundbreaking G20Ei isn’t just Zenoah’s first engine with electronic ignition, it’s the first gas engine from any manufacturer that can fit .60-size planes that, until now, were limited to glow or electric power choices. Its dimensions are especially well suited for round cowl models like Hangar 9’s popular Corsair 60 and P-47D 60 ARFs. It has plenty of power for many .90 to 1.20-size sport applications as well. Much of this incredible versatility can be attributed to its lightweight magnesium-aluminum alloy crankcase that gives it an impressive thrust to weight ratio compared to most gas engines.


Specs

Type: Gas Electronic Ignition
Displacement: 20cc
Bore: 32mm
Stroke: 25mm
Cylinders: Single
Total Weight: 41.6oz with muffler, ignition, and mount
Engine (Only) Weight: 33 oz
Crankshaft Threads: 8x1.25mm
Benchmark Prop: APC 15 X 6 9500rpm
Prop Range: 14 x 6 through 16 x 6
RPM Range: 1400 - 10,000
Fuel: Gas Oil mix 32:1
Muffler Type: Compact Welded can (included)
Cylinder Type: Nikasil, ring

XJet

That's a *lot* of weight when compared to the much lighter SA125.

That's not a lot of power for 20cc

I have a feeling that a Funtana 90 fitted with one of these would not be as much fun to fly as one with an SA125.

whaturi

someone put a da 50 on a funtana 90???

Btaff

My Feedback: (3)

XJET,

Good point the Zenoah 20cc is almost double the weight of the Saito 125. I'm just trying to work within a modest budget and am eager to get a gasser plane! This may be the wrong engine choice.

Btaff

My Feedback: (3)

Yes, there is a huge thread somewhere in RCU about it. IMO, way to much engine for the F90. My Saito 125 blasts my F90 around the sky!

airborneSGT

My Feedback: (15)

The engine is 41oz but a lot of people run saito 180's in them which are 33oz. I had at least a 24oz tank with the saito 180 to get decent flight times. Figure you can run a smaller tank and get longer flights.

Still gas is fun around the 28% size. A DA 50 on a funtana 90 is about as crazy as a DA 50 on the H9 260, Chipe Hyde Cap X - a lot of people have done this.

If you are on a budget pick up a RTF gasser in 28% size readily available for about $1000. You can get one with a DA 50 for under $1400 rtf often as well. If you have the budget go straight to 33-35%. They fly circles around 28%. Myself I think 28% as the basher plane size and small at that. However if you look at wing loading and power to weight it comes together at that size. I know myself from experience you can easily have $500 in a small model. So selling off two smaller models pays for a 28%.

I only say this as I too was in the smaller planes and convert them to gas mindset. Cost me money and flew just OK. When I went to 33% I was like wow. Its a hobby though so do what you think is right!

tIANci

With the YS110 of 28 oz the F90 is slightly tail heavy but definately flyable. With a 41 oz motor in front you better be moving a lot of thngs to the back. The performance spec says bench marked with a 15x6 @ 9,500 RPM. That means the engine has less performance than the YS110 (16x6 @ 9,750 RPM) but more weight. So on paper the Zenoah G20 will make the F90 about 8 oz heavier ( engine weight diffence and fuel load difference) and give about 2 lbs less thrust than a YS110 or perhaps an OS108 turning a 16x6 prop.

However the savings in fuel is tremendous.

airborneSGT

My Feedback: (15)

Of course you could go the tested route of the Roto 25 or Evo 26 with a tuned pipe. Those could hover it no problem.

Btaff

My Feedback: (3)

airborneSGT and tIANci,

Thanks both of you for your insight. I've decided to put the Zenoah 20cc on the back burner. I figure based on your inputs and research of my own the engine would not perform well on the F90. I really want to get into gasser planes but always wanted to start with a DA50 and the AirWild Extra 260. I kinda was just looking for a gasser engine to gain some experience on that I could bolt on to an existing kit keeping expenses negligible. When the day comes I'll just have to take the plunge and do some studying/tinkering!

tIANci

Btaff - I am not saying that the G20 will not fly the F90, it will for sure and the higher wing loading is not realy that bad. I mean some guys fly it with an OS160, I carried one for my friend and its heavy but he flies is fine. What I would say is that a certain plane is built for a certain reason. We want the plane for an optimum set up. For me to load the F90 up with that much weight seems to defy what it was built for. Guess, to each their own ... no one is really correct or wrong. I did hear that the owner of Horizon Hobby was flying the ShowTime with a gasser ... he says it flies superb. Can you say he is wrong? No ... its his choice and/or flying style.

Btaff

My Feedback: (3)

tIANci,

Points well taken. Thanks again.

xflyboy

Hi, i just made my "big jump" to gas with a Texas Hurricane and a Da 50 What a great first gas plane.flys great lands like a trainer

starguard

Here is a link to their webpage Here is a link to their webpage http://www.*********.org/zenoah.htm

tIANci

You guys remember the video of the guy who was hovering his Kanke Laser 2000/Texas Hurricane over teh backyard pool with his friends all around?

airborneSGT

My Feedback: (15)

Yeah it was on the www.troybuiltmodels.com website. That was a kit he built himself and one that Kangke later made an arf of.

tnorris

Well I jsut bought the zenoah 20 to put on a Funtana 90. Yes it is a little heavy, but I can put the tank on the CG, will not have to move all my stuff to the front and should get longer flight times. The motor we ran up yesterday will spin a 16X6 at 9000rpm. That is about what you can expect out of a saito 125. At 900 feet above sea level I think this plane will still have a good wing loading. It looks like I may be the first to actually put this engine on a F90, well at least the first to admit it My plane will be here on Friday, I hope, and I will post the results shorly there after. I am doing this as a budget build, so I will also post all my gear when completed.

AeroDave

Good luck! I'll bet the little Zenoah will work just fine. They sure run good, and thats a real confidence boost when you're down on the deck! 3D is a numbers game. The numbers hae to add up to make a successful combination. So you need enough thrust to pull out of a hover, a light enough wing loading for a smooth transition from normal to high alpha flight and enough control authority to get the job done. I think what people tend to forget is that in the realm of budget small gassers we're dealing with compromises. You want the gas experience and "cheap" fuel, but you don't want to morgage the house. So maybe you shift the numbers a bit. Maybe you have enough power to pull out of a hover but not rocket out. Or maybe your funtana harriers great but doesn't land quite as slow. What I'm saying is, there is room to shift the numbers to fit your situation. Then you accept the changes in performance as choices. I've designed and built a 3D airplane for the zenoah G26 which came out great. Plenty of hover pullout power, great harriers and a light wing loading. I just manipulated to numbers to get a compination that would work for me because everything commercially available would have been too heavy with too high a wing loading. Best to ya, I think you'll be fine

dave

tnorris

Thank you Dave. That was just about the best post I have read lately. Too many people with "this way or no way" ideas out there. If it ends up not being a good engine for this plane, then it will go on a sport plane or war bird and I will put something else on the Funtana. No loss either way.

Thanks again for the comment,

Travis

PropHanging

I look forward to seeing how this engine performs in the F90. Please keep us updated with your progress.

Best of luck!

Btaff

My Feedback: (3)

Tnorris,

I look forward to your post once you've flown the 90 with Zenoah. I think it will work fine too. All the best.

Brendan

BUflash

Any new news on how this engine performs. Tnorris? How goes it? I'm considering purchasing this engine but not for 3D, rather for a scale project. I'm thinking if it performs well on a F90 and you can still balance it tail heavy then it should be no sweat on a scale project. Keep us updated!

bsponsler

My Feedback: (3)

I just bought a G20EI for my Funtana 90, and this will be my first gasser. I have a few questions and concerns, and thought I would throw them out there for some insight from those of you that have done this before.

Did you keep the same right engine angle that is currently built into the firewall?

Why do we use standoffs to space the engine to the cowl instead of just building it out with plywood? What size stand-off’s did you use? where can I get them?

Should I use a PCM receiver? Are there any recommendations in this regard?

The manual says that the ignition switch harness should be rated for 3.5amps. Is there a good switch for this purpose?

What other hints might help for this conversion?

I would appreciate any insight before I jump into this.

Thanks

xflyboy

there is no reason you can't build a box instead of stand offs if you need them . i would keep the same built in right thrust as far as the ing switch any good Heavy duty switch would work just make sure it's a heavy duty not a standard. Mpi makes a good one that sells for about $18, I'm using one on my DA 50 ing. The ing in the g20 is said to be a real amp hog like 2 amp, so make sure you use a big battery, you may consider a li ion and regulator, troy built sells a good 2800mah and regulator for about $50 Let us know how the g20 works on the funtana, i'm thinking about getting one myself. The main concern is the power to weight issue. It is heaver, and has less power than the saito 125 which would be my glow choice. But what the hell it's GAS. What i want to know is how well it pulls the funtana out of a hover

airborneSGT

My Feedback: (15)

Dude if you are going to have funtana with a gas engine you need to save weight! Go with some lightweight stand offs. Troybuilt sells them and so does Forgues research and also Don's hobby shop.

If you are not a member of the IMAA then you should join! Most of the questions you have get answered in the magazine at some point. Plus all the things you could want for a big plane are advertised in there.

I was going to do one a while back but with my Roto 25 I had. I would suggest you dont use the CA hinges. Seal those hinge gaps! Keep that plane as light as you can with your setup and you will be fine. Gas seems wierd at first, but once you get used to it..well its hard to go back to glow.

Flip and Fly!

DT56

My Feedback: (18)

If you want this to be a long lasting combination, better examine the structure of the Funtana real close. I had a new one that had so many structural defects, it needed a total rebuild. My example had wing sheeting sanded paper thin in high stress areas, a warped fuselage and the glue joints were extremely deficient. After rebuilding, the Funtana was too heavy for good vertical performance with the Evolution 26 I had purchased for it. It was the last Hangar 9 plane for me!

It even made a poor fire!!![8D]

DT56