Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

The overall weight of the plane, ready to fly less gas, is 13lbs 5ozs. The CG balanced right at 5 7/8" with the radio gear just as you see in the picture. First try. I just left it there. The book says 5 3/4" but I read in the review of FLYRC magazine that he moved his CG back to 6 1/2". So I should be ok.

I'm very pleased with the build quality of this plane. The only real problem I had was with the rudder pushrod. It is so close to the elevator servo and the elevator itself that I couldn't get a straight shot at it. So I couldn't use my standard carbon fiber pushrod. I ended up going with a ball joint with it reveresed on the servo arm and making a "Z" bend in the steel 4-40 rod of sorts. Seems to work ok. But then...I haven't flown it yet.

Another concern I had was the way the stab glues on. There isn't much area for the glue to hold to. I went with the stock set up and I used Gorilla glue. It seems to be very secure, so far. But again...I haven't flown it yet. Other than those two items the build was easy and straight forward. It took me 3 months. That's considerably longer than the 20 hours the manual says. Ha Ha. It was my fault. I just kept dragging on this one for some reason.

The manual says 12-14lbs. I'm using the EVO Gas 45 engine and my actual weight is 13lbs 5ozs. I don't use the pants but every thing else is factory stock. I use medium weight battieres. My radio battery is 4ozs, my ignition battery is 4.5 ozs. All of my servos are digital Hitec HS5945 and 5645. My throttle servo is HS625. I also installed a servo (F3004) to use for a choke servo and engine kill.

I'm very pleased with the quality of this plane. Great Planes has really stepped it up in that area. This plane is nice. I'm sure all their "performance series" planes are the same way. Everything built very level on accurate. The weight is right on and the balance is optainable with little effort. You have a choice of Glow or Gas and you have precut servo slots for either way you build it.

Doesn't get any better than this...but agian...I haven't flown it yet.

Thanks
Barry

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Barry,

I forget who it was but to make sure the stab gets a good glue joint, peel the covering back from underneath the stab at the bottom of the fuselage, and you can glue the bottom of the stab even better. That is what I did and it gave me the "warm and fuzzies"

I think I am still at the stock location. The 45 degree inverted climb show me jsut a touch of nose drop and that takes quite a few seconds to even lose maybe 10 degrees so I am very close to neutral.

whaturi was a bit furhter back on his and had no problem with it at all so you should be fine. Just do not set the elevator throws any more than the book calls for. The elevators are hugely powerful [X(]. I can pull a hard 90 degree turn easily on low rates

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

well...

It runs. Not flying yet, but broke in the engine. I had a terible time getting it to start. I must of cranked it 1000 times and couldn't get it to fire. In desperation I called my good friend Cyberwolf and we worked on it together. He determined we had a leak in the diaphram and we finally got it to run. After we fixed that it ran good.

We ran it for 30 minutes or so. Final numbers were about 6650 RPM with the 21x8 prop. Cyberwolf thought that was pretty good. I was hoping for 7000 RPM. These readings were using an engine that only had 30 minutes run time and using the break in oil mixed at 30:1. Does anybody have an opinion on whether or not the RPM will increase with additional run time and also when I lean the mix down to 40:1? Do you think it will get to 7000?

When I got home from Cyberwolf's I started the engine myself, just to see if I could get it to run. I did. Seems to start fine now. I also put my trusty fish scale test to it and got a peak of 19lbs 0ozs of thrust with it settling back to 18lbs 8ozs of thrust when the engine settled down at full speed. I only ran it there for a few seconds but I did the test several times with the same results. What kind of thrust would on normally see from a 50CC class engine. Keep in mind my elevation is 4800'. Any opinions on whether or not this will increase with break in also?

My plane weighs 13lbs 5ozs so I have about 1.38:1 ratio. It will hover but I'm uncertain about pull out. What do you normally expect?

I'll do the maiden on Friday or Saturday and give a report.

Thanks for all the help here and especially for Cyberwolf who help with the engine after I was about to give up.

Barry

Steve

My Feedback: (54)

Berry,
You are running a little thick on the oil. I always use a good oil and mix 50:1 for break in and normal flying. Make sure you use 87 octane fuel. This runs the best at our altitude. You can run a little rich for a couple flights to make sure the rings start the seating process.

Steve

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

Steve...

I'm just running the oil that came with the engine. It is a bit thick and rich that way. Supposed to help break in the engine though. When I get it broke in I'm changing to 50:1 mix. Probably Amzoil.

I hope to fly tomorrow with this plane. I'm tired of looking at it. Need to get it up in the air.

To all...

I'm look for a device to hold this big bird down when I am tuning it. I've seen several "home made" looking devices at the field that stick into the ground and hold the tail. Are there any available and where? Any ideas would be appreciated as this plane won't fit on the bench I usually use.

Thanks
Barry

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

Did the maiden flights today!!!!!! Wow!!!!!!

First I'd like to say a special thank you to Cyberwolf who help me to get the engine running and without him I'd still be flipping that thing. Also to Steve who today helped with the radio/range checks and gave me some tips on flying this big bird. Also to Ron, my right handed friend, who offered encouragement and got me going at a very late hour for maidening airplanes.

I flew three total flights. The first one was only about 7 minutes and the second about 10 and the third was only about 8 minutes because it was cut short when the engine came off.

The EVO 45 engine still is a bit hard to start. Maybe it's me but it took 20-25 cranks to get it going. After that it seems to idle fine with good transiition and pretty good high end speed. This engine is pretty quiet. I'm uncertain to the DB rating but certainly quite a bit quieter than most gassers I've heard. Very nice. Powerful and quiet.

Ground handling was very nice. I was flying off of hard packed dirt/sod. I've only flown off that a couple of times. The plane has reasonable ground control and had no tendency to nose over. Gave me a lot of confidence.

I pointed the CAP into the wind and added throttle. It caught me off guard how quickly the plane jumped into the air. This plane wants to fly. I would guess the plane was airbourne in 30 feet.

My initial impressions were very good. I didn't have a feel of a great big airplane on my hands. Didn't really know what to expect but this plane flys very true and easy. I had my good friend Steve give me 2 clicks of down elevator. That was the only trims I had to input.

I flew the plane in 4-5 circles around the field getting the feel. Then I rolled her inverted. I was holding about 21/64 throttle and the plane would stay level for 300' or so and then start to drop ever so slightly. For all practical purposes this plane is the same either way.

The engine has plenty of power. Already vertical is unlimited. Those that know tell me the engine will certainly break in and gain a few hundred RPM which will give me even more. I started doing loops and rolls and inverted flying on the very first flight. The plane seems to give me confidence and is certainly not scary to fly.

I set up for the first landing and realized I was going too fast and had to make another pass. The plane goes faster than you think and I was trying purposely to keep the speed up to avoid any stalling. But on the second pass I greased the landing. Really pretty easy.

We checked things over and refired the engine. This time it started right up and went right to a smooth idle. Since this is my first gasser I was getting the feel for how the engine reacts. Certainly it has slower spool up than the YS engines I'm used to. You have to anticipate ahead of time what you want to do and start the throttle inputs just a little bit early.

This flight I did a couple of walls and attempted a couple of hovers. I was unable to get the vertical stopped. I was doing a very slow climb but not a true hover. But it was easy and everything was still on low rates. I did several high alpha knife edge passes. They had some moderate coupling to the wheels. Not so much that a simple elevator input won't correct it and I did a couple that looked really nice. But you do have to add elevator. I also noticed that on the straight uplines it coupled to the wheels just a bit also. I also did several rolling circles. I can tell you this is the easiest plane to do rolling circles I've flown. It just super easy and very pretty to watch. I liked that. I landed the second flight without incidence and casually remarked how easy this plane is to fly. I really like the landing gear. It flexs quite a bit on landings and just cusions every little imperfection on landings.

The evening sun was setting and I decided to get one more flight in. It was still light enough to see. Again I took off and again was impressed at how easy this plane leaps into the air. I generally flew at less than 1/2 throttle. Hover will be about 1/2 throttle and it certainly will have very good pull out. But I couldn't get real comfortable with the hovers. I think I'm spooked the engine will let me down in it 's current state of not fully borken in. So I'll have to do the hovers later. I did some more inverted passes and attempted some walls and hovers. I even did a few more rolling circles. What fun. My left handed friend talked me into doing a blender. (I later learned he was pumped full of mind altering pain medication and was out of his mind) At the time it sounded like a good idea. Blenders are my favorite maneuver. Anyways...I went into a blender a I gotta say this plane really went into the blender easy. And it got very VERY flat. Super nice and beautiful to watch. Pull out was nice and easy with just letting the sticks go to center and adding up elevator. Beautiful. On my second attempt at a blender I went right in and then the throttle locked full on. I had lost control of the throttle. I pulled out of the blender and put her into a very steep climb. Pretty much straight up. It got high fast and I thought man maybe I'll go outta range so I started bringing her slowly back down. I did purposing as steady as I could and gently started bringing her in. Well...as gently as you can at full throttle. I flew 2-3 minutes at full throttle wondering what I was going to do when suddenly the engine went to idle. I was high but I didn't touch the throttle stick again and just let her have her way until I got it to a nice but firm landing. I was relieved. Steve rushed over and hit the iginition kill switch and shut her off. The engine had come completely loose. 3 of the four screws were completely gone and the 4th was being held in by 2-3 threads. I had used blue locktite on these bolts.

Anyways...there was absolutely NO DAMAGE done to the plane or engine. I couldn't believe it. I even found the screws in the fuse. I'll just bolt her back in and I'll be in business again.

I didn't get as many flighs as I wanted to offer an initial impression. But still I found out this is a great flying plane. It couples more than I would have liked and I didn't get a chance to do waterfalls, hovers etc. That will come later. I like to get about 20 flights on the plane and then I'll offer a full review.

I don't think I did anything to modify this plane. Everything is stock, including the hinges and tailwheel. Oh...I think I did add carbon fiber pushrods where I could. But that's about it.

The EVO45 is an impressive engine and will offer PLENTY of power. I was also encouraged by Steve's and LHF (left handed friend's) comments about the engine. They've both been around gassers and said this one was very quiet for it's size and showed remarkable power.

When I left the field Steve gave me some very good advice. "Tighten the bolts next time." I think I'll do just that.

Thanks
Barry

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Nice report Barry,

A hint on the engine bolts. I always use longer than needed bolts then add nylon locknuts on the inside, once I started doing this I have never had an engine come loose again unless the firewall came loose.

She sure is a floater, isn't she?

You had mentioned that the engine takes a bit to spool up. I do not remember but what brand and size prop are you using. Your mixture could still be a little off. I'm not familiar with theevolution engines but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night and it seems that if you are getting slow spool up then your mix is still not correct or the prop is too much or too heavy for the engine at this point in time.

Here is a few pics (not mine) of what I was talking about for the blind nuts

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

bubbagates...

Thanks. Yes, the plane floats nice. I didn't think it would float as good as it does because the wing area seems small. (Funtana 90 is 1108 vs. GP CAP at 1168) I was pleasantly surprised.

My prop is a "NX" brand 21x8. After thinking about it last night I'm going to amend my comments. I don't think it's a spool up problem (although that will improve I'm sure as the engine breaks in) it's just more of a "feel" I'm not used to. I think I was feeling the extra weight of this plane. It doesn't start/stop moving as fast as an 8lb airplane. The prop goes but takes just a second to develop the thrust to get the 13lbs moving.

The pictures in your post are excellent. Man that is a clean/tidy installation. Wow. However, I was warned, both verbally and by the engine manual (it said little else) and thirdly by the Great Planes manual, NOT to use metal pushrods anywhere on the engine. They can transfer static. In your pictures both rods appear to be metal. Is that a problem? The way yours are done is different than mine. My standoffs have threads at both ends. You use 4 shorter screws on each end. However, after looking at yours I may drill my standoffs clear through and install it that way. Looks nice.

Another way I thought about is to run a piece of aluminum between the screws on the firewall side. I had locktite and about 1/2" diameter washers with a step down washer and a lock washer. But I'm pretty sure it came loose on the wood side. I didn't use "blind nuts" in im installation. Yours looks better. I may change.

Thanks
Barry

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

bubbagates...

After looking at your pictures a 2nd time, I think my standoffs are about twice as long also. My carb is on the other side of the firewall and the standoffs are the length of the carb longer. The extra length is certainly part of the problem. Even slight vibration would have leverage to move the wood.

Thanks
Barry

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

Here's a few pictures of the maiden flights. Not that good. We were all pretty nervous.

Thanks
Barry

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

Couple more.
Thanks

Barry

whaturi

i have this plane also. first i had an MVVS 58 on it at 15 pounds 1 ounce. i think it was the most overpowered i have ever had a plane. 3d handling did not suffer as much as i thought it would have.

the engine ended up with a bad bearing so i pulled it out and put my OS 160 in its place. i moved everything forward for balance and it ended up at 12 pounds 8 ounces or so. i went from most power possible to least power possible for 3d. i liked both, but i have to say that it now handles like a dream for 3d. i never did inverted harriers so low. this plane is fun, and i never thought i would like a cap. they built it nice and light.

one of the things i don't like about this plane is that the ailerons do not have enough power to stop tork rolls. it is very annoying and i am starting to miss hovering without torking the whole time. here is a pic of the problem. annoying!

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

whaturi...

Nice picture. Wow...all that aileron and it still won't keep from torque rolling?!?!?!?

Isn't my Evolution 45GX really made by MVVS? I think they offer it in a 58 as well. This 45 seems very powerful. So powerful the engine came off. I can't imagine what a 58 would be like.

I repaired mine today. I think I just couldn't get the bolts as tight as they needed to be because they just kept sinking into the wooden firewall. What I did was get some light aluminum 1/2" angle iron. I connected the upper and lower engine mount bolts on both sides. This allowed me to really tighten down on the screws. I also used lock washers ( did before too) and put a lot of blue locktite on the screws. I didn't really want to go with red because it just seems too permanent. I measure and looked and decided I could go with 1/4" longer screws also. So 3 things: 1. Angle iron 2. Longer bolts 3. More locktite. I hope that does it. Feels very tight. Everything else looks very good.

Funny, I have a bunch of black oil all over the bottom of the plane. About 1/4 as much as with a glow engine... but this stuff is very hard to get off. I think the glow goo is easier to clean up. This seems more permanent than the engine mounts.

All I ever heard was..."Get a gasser. Absolutely no clean up." Well, why should I be surprised that isn't true.


Anyways...I did like the plane. It flys very nice. I can't wait to get it up in the air again.

Thanks
Barry

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Barry,

First thing is I fly with whaturi quite a bit and I am not doubting his skills one little bit considering the amount of time he has been flying.

The plane in the pic is my old one that had the fireall torn out do to a dead stick and an off field excursion and I will say this it would hold a hover just fine and that was with the Fuji43 on it. My current one will also hold a hover for as long as I can with a DA50 which isn't that long but I have the same amount of throw and it will stay there.

Now for the differences that I feel is causing this

While I think the ailerons not going all the way to the root does not help I feel this is not the whole issue. There are several planes out there with no where near the aileron throw or even size (chord) of the ailerons. Heck, the GP Ultimate has no where near the size or throw of ailerons that the Cap has nad it will hold a hover just fine, but again as long as I can

Based on this I think that since whaturi is constantly adjusting the throttle, this is well known to cause a plane to go into a torque roll and is a major cause of this. When I enter a hover, I go into it nice and smooth and get the plane standing straight up with as much as a constant power that I can. Torque rolls happen because of throttle changes or even on rare occasions, too much thrust to one side. So now what I think needs to happen is too find a spot in the throttle where the plane sits there and remember that. make small changes to throttle position and it will not torque roll as quickly which will not overcome the ailerons

Again, all is just my opinion for being there first hand when that pic was taken and his comments to me about the plane

Now as far as the 58, yep, it was definitely WAY overpowered. I though he was nuts for stuffing that in there but it worked out pretty well until it swallowed a bearing from a previous crash and a pretty sever prop strike several weeks after the crash.

Cyberwolf

My Feedback: (4)

I also liked bubba gates set up with the extra lock nuts ,
Barry you to can do the same thing only put the nuts on the other ends with a little longer bolt.
What did I tell you when ya left here eh????? Make sure you check the MM Bolts often especially on a new plane .
Maybe I should have been more persistent and said go get some fender washers *LOL*
Anyway I'm very glad there was no damage and all is well.
Cya soon.

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

cyberwolf...

I think I've got it solved. I used a couple of pieces of 1/2 aluminum angle iron and put it there. It helps distribute the pressure along 4" instead of just the bolt head. Now it is much tighter. Much.

You did warn me and I really thought I was being cautious. But, instead I was very lucky to get this plane down. Very lucky indeed.

Thanks
Barry

z4racingjz

hey everyone,, i want to know if a moki 2.10 would be over the top for this plane.. i heard the lighter the better so if i put a 50cc in it,, it would fly not as well... and what do you think about the servo reversing for the elevator... does a servo reverser have a slight delay.. i was thinking about electronicly reversing my servo... and another thing,, mixing your own gas for glow,, do alot of people do that??? i have the supplies and moki's really dont need nitro so its just alcy and oil...

thanks Josh

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Josh,

I am runnng a DA50 on mine and it's the perfect match. Lots of power to spare for those dumb thumb moments so of the Moki is around 4 pounds total weight you will be fine.

Personally I'd stay away from servo reversers. I used to use them and they always seemed to change at will, bith end points and centering

I cannot help you will mixing your own fuel, do a search over in the glow engine forum or a search on the whole site and see what you can dig up. I know a guy at our club who mixes his own using no nitro and he flies a lot of OS160's and they also run very well on no nitro

z4racingjz

thanks bill, on my plane i did alot to keep it lite such as carbon fiber linkages and i used the metal servo arms so they look good and there unbreakable... i went with the s3305's and im running the 6volt pack,, the moki has the fuel pump on it. i wasnt to sure on the landing gear... i think it will crack after a couple landings... i was thinking of going carbon fiber... with the motor running at low idle the plane still wants to crawl... i was going to put some fuel line in the axles to kinda give it some breakage.. any suggestions??? im running a 20x8 jxf prop.. out of everything its the best looking plane iv ever oned...

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

The gear is fine. My first one had an off field excursion and the gear stood up well, it just has the right amount of flex to make all your landing glass smooth. The GP Ultimate uses the exact same gear, except for the color and that plane weighs 15.5lbs (I have it as well) and I have harrier landed that one a few times with no problems

Oh year, the gear is a fiberglass resin so if you do see any cracks or chips it is usually the paint

whaturi

will you harrier land it next time im at the field? i would love that.

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

I'll try, the 2 I did were purely by accident and I was able to get the mains down without too much flex. You were there for the second one. That was the day I was picking on Anabel about she finally got to see it fly.

I'm planning on bringing it tomorrow along with the Yak. Unless my cat and dog decide to sleep in, I'll be there early since they usually wake me up around 6:30am when they do their typical hissing and barking at each other

I do not think I'd do it with the Cap since the rudder is out much further behind the tailwheel that the Ultimate.

Is your Cap still doing fine???

whaturi

my cap is fine, but i have it for sale right now.. i am infatuated with the Ultra RC Giles.. and that is forcing me to sell the cap and 5 5645 hitechs for $300.

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

[sm=confused_smile.gif] [sm=confused_smile.gif] [sm=confused_smile.gif]

whaturi

yes, but i MUST have an ULTRA RC GILES.