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  1. #426
    autoguns's Avatar
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    RE: New Video: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    Tagged...Excellent thread....Thanks for all who posted... JW
    AKA: The Tim Allen of the hobby

  2. #427

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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    very good post! go to favorite!

    Anybody try to make a "system" to change the CG in flight?
    I now repairing a plane crashes for electronic equipment problems in the past and I have planed to make a system to change the CG in flight, i thinking to use an 3 step switch of the radio to move one servo conected to some system of gears to multiply the rotation of this to conect in a belt conveyor with an weight to move to change the CG in 3 positions diferents, for example in first 25% to the chord for very good and easy take offs and landings, and other positions like 35% to 45% to diferent maneuvers, I practice in the aeroflight deluxe and the best results are above the 45% for the most complicated maneuvers and others are better in 35% but is need prove in real flight to confirm...

    Anybody have any other idea?


    Good flights!...Eduardo... Argentina.

  3. #428

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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    Great Thread. Just found it I love all the great advice. Thanks to all who contributed!

  4. #429
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    RE: New Video: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    anybody know whats is going on with the ads, they dont seem to be working
    When the people look like ants,pull.
    When the ants look like people,prey!

  5. #430

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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    The Challenge: Hover the 50cc AJ SLICK a few Feet off the ground. Then for Me to Put My Transmitter on the Ground Briefly!

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVVayPKbWI0[/youtube]

  6. #431
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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers


    Harrier progress!

    I'm focussing on the Harrier/Elevator and had another 4 flights this morning. Set the alarm for 06:00 and up the park by 06:30 - I must be mad!

    Anyway, had a great time. I'm at the stage where I can enter the harrier and steer it around but I'm always loosing a little height. Just starting to get the hang of reducing the elevator input as I add a little more power to stop from flipping over; on my PA Katana MD that's a very fine line between holding the height and pulling out, maybe just one click on power. Generally needing to keep some left rudder in all the time to hold her level - on her own she drifts around to the right - seems to be the opposite of torque effect! Not sure why that is...

    And real motivation too when I held my nerve for a Harrier/Elevator landing - twice Starting to get more confident low down and just let her sink down. And then as if that wasn't enough had a go inverted. Did it once and then couldn't get back in until I lowered my ele rates and that worked much better upside-down. Real struggle though trying to sort rudder direction. After about 4 goes I started to get it - just kept telling myself to do the opposite to the direction I wanted.

    TBH, after 4 flights I was bushed! It's fun and satisfying - you should have seen the grin after I harriered to the ground - but mentally draining too...

    Must be very boring for anyone watching - feels like I've got a one track mind with my flying at the moment!!!

    Smoke me a kipper - I\'ll be back for breakfast!

  7. #432
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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    My finger joints end up aching when I do the harrier landings because my hands are so tensed up!

  8. #433
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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    hey guys, i know this is an old thread, but i had a question about flying 3D and most other threads are about planes and set up.

    Anyway, I am a new sport flyer and i dont know if i will ever get to the point of trying 3D. However, I do play a lot on the simulator. I can hover the Yak 3D with gyro on Realflight. I can hover it really well and do torque rolls n such. The Yak 3D without the gyro is obviously much harder to hover.  Do most 3D guys just use aft CG to be able to fly these types of maneuvers, or is a gyro something at is commonly used?

    And where can I read about a gyro to see how they work and how they are mounted in a plane?

    Just curious. Thanks,
    Jeremy
    86" Aeroworks Extra 300, RCGF 60cc
    70" Revolver, DLE20
    57" The World Models P-51, TT.61 pr

  9. #434
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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    I use aft CG
    David
    ____I\'\'m having a Yak Attack_____

  10. #435

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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    Glad I stumbled onto this, seems like I'm doing everything prety much the way you said. Very interesting you pointed out to "not mess around" or end up in an inverted flat spin. Equally interesting, is that on my Edge, Inail it every time, to the point that the plane is literally spinning on the wing axis with the wing pointing straight down, not the slanted knife edge attitude. And that's at idle. If I throttle up, it just gets faster and more exciting.

    Now the kicker:

    On my Funtana, which is balanced a bit tail heavy (purposely, just like the edge), I can only get it in the slanted knife edge attitude. If I add throttle, it does like you said, goes into an inverted flat spin. I've also tried going right into it, idle and with some power, same result. The only way I can seem to get it to somewhat KEspin is to just let it fall, no rudder, all aile and Down Elev. Ialso notice I need to keep more left aile in, as opposed to the Edge, which I can get the stick damn near neutral for the perfect KE spin.

    I know different planes fly differently, but to this extreme? Is there something I'm missing, maybe different setup options for the Funtana, or does the Edge just do it better because its a better tumbler? My rudder rates on both planes in high are
    relatively the same in both planes, but the Funtana has way more relative throw in the elevators. No Rudd/Elev mix on either bird...

    Any ideas?

  11. #436

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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers


    ORIGINAL: mach2

    hey guys, i know this is an old thread, but i had a question about flying 3D and most other threads are about planes and set up.

    Anyway, I am a new sport flyer and i dont know if i will ever get to the point of trying 3D. However, I do play a lot on the simulator. I can hover the Yak 3D with gyro on Realflight. I can hover it really well and do torque rolls n such. The Yak 3D without the gyro is obviously much harder to hover.* Do most 3D guys just use aft CG to be able to fly these types of maneuvers, or is a gyro something at is commonly used?

    And where can I read about a gyro to see how they work and how they are mounted in a plane?

    Just curious. Thanks,
    Jeremy
    3D Guys DO NOT use a Gyro, and rarely is AFT C/G used.

    3D is all about power, and power management.........Rudder and elevator control, and of course the proper airframe!!

    The only "tricky setups", if you can call it that, is application of
    "Expo" setting in your radio setup.

    Keep trying, and turn off those setting that make it easy....gyro and aft C/G, and fly it like you stole it!![>:]
    RC MANIAC-PRO BRO 1900-AMA# 95841

  12. #437

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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    Iagree, leave the gyro, expo, and mixing stuff alone. That stuff can actually get you into trouble sometimes. I've seen and exerienced it. Plus, you'd be surprised at what you can come up with when you do stuff without the aid of mixes and gyrosthe learning curve introduces new things that you can harness, perfect, and turn into new maneuvers...

  13. #438
    mach2's Avatar
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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    Its funny that this thread was commented on. I forgot i was subscribed to it.

    Anyway, the funny part is that ive been hitting the sim a lot lately and im doing really well with some 3D stuff. I just bought a 67" carl goldberg Edge 540 with an Eflite 110 motor and im not getting crazy, but I understand how much 3D depends on the Plane, Pilot, and power. It can hover but its gotta be around full throttle to hold it.

    Im going to swap it out and put my DLE20 in the plane because the flight times suck on the electric.

    Anyway, I do use expo, I do not use mixing, and Ive learned how to hover pretty well on the sim without the gyro.  So ill just keep altitude and keep on tryin to progress in my skills....

    Still looking to get a 30cc plane. Edge or MX2...

    Jeremy
    86" Aeroworks Extra 300, RCGF 60cc
    70" Revolver, DLE20
    57" The World Models P-51, TT.61 pr

  14. #439

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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    Both really cool planes!  From my experience, the Edge is a great tumbler, and needs very little control surface throw to do anything, so it's a great 3D bird.  Never had an MX2, but if they do what Rob Holland can make the full scale version do, it should be a blast as well.  Best of flying to you!

  15. #440
    mach2's Avatar
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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    I asked this in a thread and got zero response. maybe someone in this thread can help me. Im going to switch to a DLE20 in the Edge listed in my sig below. The engine flies my revolver well with a Xoar 17x6, but for 3D type flying should I go toward a faster prop like a 15x8 or 14x10 or stay with a big prop with more pull like the 17x6?

    the plane had good thrust and it hung on the prop with a APC 17x10e on the Eflite Power 110, but the flight time sucked on the electric, thus the switch to gas....and I know its a completely different power and rpm and a different style prop. So Im not sure where to start. I have a Xoar 17x6 16x6 and a 15x8....

    Thanks,
    Jeremy
    86" Aeroworks Extra 300, RCGF 60cc
    70" Revolver, DLE20
    57" The World Models P-51, TT.61 pr

  16. #441

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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    For 3D, you want more torque for better throttle response than pull. The more pitch you have in the prop, it will be faster, but your spool-up will be slower, and you don't want slow spool up when you hit your throttle. Especially in hovering. A larger diameter will compensate for the lower pitch, and give better prop wash over your surfaces which is what you want since 3D maneuvers are basically maneuvers at stall speeds, and you really dont have alot (if any) forward movement to create other airflow over the surfaces.

    I would say if you can keep the AUW (all up weight) around 8 lbs, put a xoar 17x6 on that DLE 20, and have some fun! IMHO, the DLE20 will be fine for that bird.

  17. #442
    mach2's Avatar
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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    cool man. Thanks a lot. I had seen the props on some of the big gassers were like a 10 pitch, but that's a totally different power with a large diameter prop. Ill put the 17x6 and see how she does.

    Jeremy
    86" Aeroworks Extra 300, RCGF 60cc
    70" Revolver, DLE20
    57" The World Models P-51, TT.61 pr

  18. #443

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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    hi guys

    i'm trying to do high alpha on my gold wings 30cc mx2 but getting heaps of wing rock. i can do them reasonably well on my faomies with little wing rock.

    cheers

    bunyip


  19. #444

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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    Dial in some EXPO......negative EXPO if you use any Futaba system........ that should slow down the over control issue with the ailerons!
    RC MANIAC-PRO BRO 1900-AMA# 95841

  20. #445

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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers


    ORIGINAL: RC MANIAC119

    Dial in some EXPO......negative EXPO if you use any Futaba system........ that should slow down the over control issue with the ailerons!
    Unfortunately, dialing in expo would only make things worse. The key is angle of attack (AOA) vs throttle. If ur gonna use expo anywhere, use ig one ur elevator. Also the key is to NOT bump ur throttle, make smooth easy and deliberate throttle adjustments. Trust me, i had the same problem and those few pointers work, both for harriers AND elevators, both with really high AOAs.


  21. #446

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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    Just jumping in on the sim comments. I have both Phoenix and real flight. I have found real flight uses more computer resources and shudders a bit more. I really like Phoenix and have found I use it more and more. My real flight is still setup for the controller that came with the sim. With Phoenix I use any controller I want. Bought an adapter to use Phoenix from hobbyking for 10 Bucks that also allows me to buddy cord to almost anything.
    Real flight has more planes and fields, but I don't really need all of that. Just need some planes that help me practice 3D for both fixed wing and heli.

  22. #447
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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers


    ORIGINAL: djmp69


    ORIGINAL: RC MANIAC119

    Dial in some EXPO......negative EXPO if you use any Futaba system........ that should slow down the over control issue with the ailerons!
    Unfortunately, dialing in expo would only make things worse. The key is angle of attack (AOA) vs throttle. If ur gonna use expo anywhere, use ig one ur elevator. Also the key is to NOT bump ur throttle, make smooth easy and deliberate throttle adjustments. *Trust me, i had the same problem and those *few pointers work, both for harriers AND elevators, both with really high AOAs.

    Actually, this is not true. I have been on hiatus for a few years but I still check in from time to time. Expo is a fantastic tool and a much needed help to improve the flight quality of a plane. Because servo speeds, imbalance in your setup and about a million other things, mixes and expo are great tools if used correctly. Once you figure out how to setup an expo curve so that the control surface response is soft where you need it to be around center stick, and then set to respond in a similar fashion at higher throw rates its something you wont want to live without. If you think expo and curves are cheating or that not using them makes you a better pilot, think again. Expo programming is no different than adjusting geometry and control surface deflection limits to achieve the same effect. Except expo work better.
    Mike East
    AMA 793948

    Back to square one .

  23. #448

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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    Mike..thank you for that vindication!

    I'm not sure what kind of skills djmp69 has....but it was very clear to me that his RC resume' was limited, or his experience with expo was at a minimum...

    Either way, his advice was way off base, as are so many comments here on RCU.

    RC MANIAC-PRO BRO 1900-AMA# 95841

  24. #449
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    RE: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    Like MIke, I am still lurking so I decided to catch up a bit and will certainly address the expo thing.

    Expo is certainly something to use and learn to use properly. It is not cheating. I know quite a bit great 3D pilots that fly IMAC as well and I can assure everyone, they use expo. I asked several of them over the years and I found one common thing, they all thought expo was not needed, but at the time, they were "stick bangers", always flying behind the plane (playing catch up) on most maneuvers and never quite feeling like they were in total control at all times, again being reactive versus pro-active. They learned to use expo and fly IMAC and they became much better pilots all around. IMAC or Pattern (not the same thing) teaches you proper airplane control. A lot of pilots swear they can fly a perfectly level and straight line until they get in front of judges in 20mph winds (that's not an exaggeration) and find out they flew that line with a wing low, climbing or falling slowly and drifting in or out

    I can also assure you the pilots flying IMAC use all sorts of radio settings to help take the work load off the pilot. Once you get a plane properly trimmed, and not just using the TX's trim tabs, but going through Peter Goldsmith's trim chart, you will find that any type of flying that you do will become way easier and much more fun as you can now concentrate on flying the maneuver you want to fly fully knowing the plane is not going to do something stupid. The chart works well for all planes, big and small

    Also, if you want all of this and more at your finger tips, I have a app called IMAC Lite in the Apple app store that has all kinds of tools that can apply to all types of flying, though it was built mainly around IMAC. There is also one in the Android marketplace called IMAC Pro, which is literally the exact same app that I started to develope and gave it to another developer to finish (I know, shameless plug on my part )
    Bill James

    IMAC NorthEast Regional Director
    2009-2010
    2013-2014

  25. #450

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    RE: New Video: HOW-To..3D maneuvers

    Great Topic! Boy i Could Have Used This Forum Many Planes ago!
    www.hobbieplanet.com

    Http://www.hobbieplanet.com


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