BaldEagel

Has anyone got any experience with putting four servo's in the wing of one of these, I am thinking of using four so that I can get opposing movements for some extreme manouvres, I have the fibreglass fus version that I am just about to start building.

Mike

BaldEagel

As no one has replied I assume I must be the first to do it, therefore below are the pics of the finnished plane if anyone is interested I suppose I could explain how its done.

EDIT: I thought you may like to know that I put the upper ailerons coupled with the elevator and the four ailerons all work together, I am going to experiment with crow brakes as well.

Mike

BaldEagel

To ALL

Maidend the Panic on Saturday, did I have the thrust lines wrong, it left the ground and went straight into a nose high hover, opened her up to gain height and lowered the power immediately the plane leveled into a very low loss of height glide, very easy to bring in at my feet, played around with the downthrust, aileron and flap reflex, it now fly's beutifully, flat spins onto the deck, I am thinking of putting an undercarridge on the top wing just for fun, this thing is a hoot.

Mike

Mitchell91

i have a panic the wood fuselage, its very heavy and im running a .91 engine on her. It's to heavy to do any maneuvers properly so i use it as a sports model

BaldEagel

Michell91

Mine weighs 6lb9onz dry with a Jen 56 and pipe in it the performance is stunning, how much does yours weigh? it must be very heavy if a 91 does not do it for you.

EDIT: just a thought what prop are you using, I have a 14.5x4 Graupner Cam prop specially designed for IC 3D, it may be you need a different prop to get the thrust needed for good performance on these things, I would have thought you would need something in the region of a wide blade 15x4 or maybe 16x4 at least.

Mike

Eric.Henderson

I go back a long way and a couple of countries with the PANICs. Just when I thought I was over them they came out with the ARF version 25th Anniversary edition.
After some Euro conversion pain to US$ one arrived in New Jersey!

I noted that it was lighter than my many previous versions and that it used a connector to the top ailerons.

I cut a small opening in the covering and slid a ply-plate trough it. A little bit of "Ship-in the-bottle" technique and the plate was epoxied in place. I ironed teh existing covering onto teh plate and it was done. There are existing holes in the ribs that allow you to feed a fuel-pick-up-clunk through on some tread for the aileron lead routing. You need to cut two new holes in the lower surface to make exits for the servo-leads.

I programmed the JR 10X to do to do Bi-plane Crow, which is both top ailerons up about 30 degrees and both bottom ailerons down about the same.

I put a trim knob mix on the elevator so that I can dial the right amount of elevator correction during flight-testing. The trim option is on the same switch as the crow activator and once etablished the auto-down-trim will be dialed-in for keeps and the elevator trim knob/mix disabled.

I also did a similar mix for the top two ailerons to be a regular down-flap for slow almost hovering landings.

You can also try some pretty funky stuff with the ailerons only dropping on one side for climbing type spins, but you need to be wary of that switch near the ground - wonder how I knew that :-(

It's a bit cold right now, 17 F or approx -10 C, so I'll just have to wait for some sun. This plane was a 3-D ship that was way before its time and even though some people claim that they are ugly they still look beautiful to me!

Regards,

Eric.

:-)

BaldEagel

Eric

What is the weight of the new ARTF Panic?

You may not have noticed but my original question was back in August last year, so I'v had the four servo wing on it since then, crow is a hoot I have never seen an airoplane decend in the vertical so slowly and then flip to horizontal and land, back up too vertical and hover, Robert got this thing just right when he designed it and its been good all of these years, its just that someone gave the name 3D to what this thing has been doing all the time.



Mike

Eric.Henderson

Mike,
I have the engine stripped at the moment to fit a new stainles steel bearing before I run it in.

I will weigh my PANIC when I get it all together. (About a week till I get the new bearings.)

I actually have two OS 61's that I intend to run in a Twin. The PANIC lets me change the engine in a few minutes and will also test the relaibility of the throttles and idles. I need a good tick-over on a twin)

I just swapped the aileron servo clevises for ball-joint connectors because the throw of the flaps plus aileron deflection was causing some nasty binding at the servo-arm end. Did you measure your throws?

Have you tried spins in full drag? Sorry, that was a Monty Python moment. I meant with the "crow" deployed etc.

BTW - I am curious where you fly? I used to fly in Tonbridge area , and @ West Malling back in the 70's when I wasn't throwing slope soarers of the Devils Dyke or Butser Hill.

Regards,

Eric.

BaldEagel

Eric

I will measure the throws next time I get it out, I have not had a problem with binding yet but will check my whole set up, and yes with the crow deployed the flat spins or blenders as the US call them are very slow, I am interested have you your crow in towards the fus or out from the wing, I have tried both and its intersting to see the difference.

I fly at Conya Marshes near Faversham, you will be interested to know that West Malling aerodrome is now a housing estate, I used to fly there with the ATC before I got into serious competition gliding, at one point I got quite concerned when I realised that the thing I was up in cost more than my house.

What's the twin your going to use the 61's in?

If you where slope soaring in the 70's we posibly know some of the same people, the local area BMFA Chief Examiner is always going on about when he and a few others invented PSS I think on the Ditchling Beacon and Devils Dyke, his initials are MG don't want to put names on here for obvious reasons, if it sounds familier send me a PM and I will put you in touch with him.

Oh by the way "What is the payload of a South African Swallow?" or do you have a "Shrubbary?"

Mike

Eric.Henderson

Right now I have it outwards. (Bottom wing flaps down and top wing flaps up). When I tried it the other way on my old Panics with the smaller ailerons I experienced a lot of turbulence on the stab. I have not yet tried the outwards method.

I read about West Malling - big loss. I flew demo flights for the ATC when the ceiling was too low for them. Was lucky enough to have a few rides when the CO was away. There was an instructor there with a typical ex-WWII moustach, who took me up. We had an exciting winch stall one day when he proceeded to do a stall turn/Chandelle and landed down wind. Another time he did a loop off the winch tow. You should have seen the look on the young winch operators face as we dived right at him.

My next twin shoud be an ASM P-61 Black Widow....

As regards slope soaring I flew with my mate Mark Passingham. Fellow contestants were names like Richard Gerard, Chris Greengrass, a very young Ken Woodhouse - he has not grown much taller since :-) etc. I was the MEON Valley Chairman for a few years so I flew there a lot. Also my former wife was from Brighton so we visited the Downs a LOT!. (In-laws etc.) Always took a plane however.... My slope-time was between 1976 and 1982. I lived in East Peckham near Paddock Wood and then In Alton, Hants until I came out to the States in '82.

My Knickname was Evil-Eric due some unfortunate mid-airs etc during the slope races. Well earned I might add :-)

Eric.

BaldEagel

Eric

Never go into the slope thing myself although I do fly off the slope now and again.

Now with you living in Alton in Hampshire Lasham airfield was on your dorrstep I would have thought you must have got into a full size glider at some time, Brian Spreckly the 15M National Champion was the CFI during the time I instructed there, I also flew and instructed at Booker, Challock, Headcorn and Biggon Hill in my time, our paths may have crossed.

Mike

Eric.Henderson

Mike,
I have no memory these days :-) I was a 6' 4" 17 stone Number-8. Kinda hard to forget (LOL)

Here are a couple of pictures of the ball-joints and the decal I had made. Should be able to see which way up it is, no problem :-)

Eric.

BaldEagel

Eric

I uncoupled the flapperons at the Tx this week end and it inproved the prop hanging measurably, the flapperons where also decreasing the amount of movement of the ailerons as the roll rate is now much inproved also, had to put a bit more expo in to calm it down a bit around centre stick, my ailerons are all working together i.e. four ailerons and four flapperons, I may change this to allow flapperons on the top wing only and ailerons on the bottom just to see what happens. Don't you just love computer radio's? I can play all day with different function mixing.

Mike

Eric.Henderson

We had 63 F in NJ today. The rain never really showed up although some wind did!

The OS 61 started up easily and one tank of fuel had the engine running reliably and with a good idle. The wind was so strong that it weather-vaned the Panic immediately upon thottle application.

At 1/4 throttle she left the ground in about 2 yards. She flew easily and felt as comfortable as an old glove. I had PANICs in the UK back in the late 70's I think. Then in the 80's in MA. One even flew in the 1985 Westover Nat's as a last ditch substitute for a lost pattern plane. The last one had an ENYA R-120 on the front. The nose was shortened by 3" to get a good CG. (No nose fwd of the cabane.)

Tried all the rates and a couple of spins. I could not count the rolls on high rate. Most of the flying was devoted to dailing in some auto-elevator trim for flap and for Bi-plane-crow. I used trim knobs mixed to the elevator and controlled by the flap and landing switches. Once dialed-in, the elevator settings were measured and then permanently mixed to the flaps etc.

The top flap needed about 1/4" of down trim on the elevator. The Bi-plane-crow actually needed some auto-up-trim!

Landings were very slow and two crosswind "arrivals" were enough to call it a day. Monday looks less windy.... then we'll have some fun

Regarsds,

Eric.

piroflip2

hi BALDEAGEL

I too have the ARTF Panic with Saito 82.
ballistic vertical and wild 3D.

It is the easiest to hover model (including foamies) that I have ever had!!

Don't know if this is any use to ARTF Panic owners but my (and a club mates too) kit supplied bands snapped after three or four flights,,,,,,,YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

Eric.Henderson

Thanks for the warning. Both my PANIC ARFs have the same rubber band problem...

I was very lucky and had several bands snap when I was actually putting them on in the PANIC in the work shop. They looked the part, being wide and thick etc. but every one of them snapped when only stretched marginally .

A quick trip to Staples rewarded me with a nice big bag of much better ones for $1.60 before tax.

As I flew mine I could not help but think that it was an airplane that was way before its time. The expression 3-D had not been coined back in the 70's. If I remember rightly we were using them to do the thing called the triple-thrash. (Three loops, three roll, three spins and land in the shortest possible time.)

Back then the words "High-alpha" probably applied more to exam results than flying (BG). The end positions of the interplane struts are an early version of SFG'f if you like?

I can hover this Panic way better than my foamies. I only wish that I had known that I was supposed to develop that skill back then! (Even bigger grin!)

Regards,

Eric

Eric.Henderson

I needed an April flight, so on Sunday the TX and the on-board 1500 mAh Li-Po RX pack was charged and we were off to the races!

It was not too windy although a bit chilly at 45F. The OS .61 is broken in now so some full throttle stuff was in order. I tried a few different props and finally settled for the 12 x 5 APC. This got me up high enough quickly enogh for some ridiculous spins....

I put the rudder on max-rate and the elevator and ailerons on low rate. After entering the spin the throttle was brought up to full power. The elevator moved to full down and the ailerons slowly reversed. The spin was a sight to behold. You could take your eyes of the plane for quite a while to give your neck a rest. It just kept in a very flat spin and slowly descended. The sound of the engine told you where it was at all times.

I tried lining up for a runway-spin-bounce several times but the breeze drifted the plane over the "tall-stuff" each time. So I settled for some Biplane-crow dives from a great height. The Panic needed some auto-up-trim when the crow was deployed. Once that was dialed you could dive stright towards the runway and pull out at about 6-8' and land in less than a few feet.

A more conventional flap that I use is top ailerons down only. This lets you "walk-the-dog" down the runway. Very slow flight with the nose help up. I

I don't get a very axial roll - might need some throw tweaking on the four aileron servos. It does do a great very-slow-roll however.

Spent a lot of time doing KE loops and pin-wheels. It needs some down elevator when the big rudder is applied. Might use an exponential mix instead of the std code 66 [JR speak]

I am looking for some old pictures of our USA Panics when we threw Enya 120R's etc on the front.

Back to the grind.

Regards,

Eric.

model-flying.com

Hi Guys, I have just got my new Panic together, fitted it with a West T1 50 and test flew it ok. It flies better than my original Panic but I feel the CG could go further back than 4". Where are you running yours? I hope to get up the field today and have some fun.

coloradoz

My Feedback: (38)

I've just inherited a Panic - but with no manual - does anyone have a pdf of the manual they could send along?

Cheers,
..AJ

model-flying.com

Is it the old version or the new?

coloradoz

My Feedback: (38)

New version...

model-flying.com

Here is the link to download the Panic instruction manual straight from the J Perkins website.
http://www.jperkinsdistribution.co.u...=ARTF%20-%20JP

Also here is a link to a couple of video clip of the lads at Avicraft (they invented the Panic) flying a couple of panic.
http://www.avicraft.co.uk/render.asp...&navIDs=19,181

Keep it light and make sure if you are using the aileron connecting links to make sure you angle the ball cups or you won't get much movement on the ailerons. I found this out the hard way and the ball links kept popping out.
Let us know how you get on.

coloradoz

My Feedback: (38)

Thanks for those links - I wonder why it isn't on the avicraft website (I also wonder why these models are imported - they look like a boatload of fun to fly).

..AJ

coloradoz

My Feedback: (38)

Do have happen to have a closeup of the aileron linkage - I'm unclear what you are talking about regarding the ball link setup.
..AJ

model-flying.com

Have a look at these pics (if it works), I think you will understand what I mean.