hcas

I am wondering if any one has built a Great Planes 1/3 scale Extra 300L and how they like it for 3D flying. I am considering building one. Are there any particular things I should be aware of when bulding this plane. Is it a good 3d performer?

Kody

My Feedback: (19)

hello, 1 word DONT BY IT , i know some one that has it and he hats it. It snaps out all the time. If i were you i would consider a carden or aero works.

Mike Wiz

My Feedback: (2)

That's an interesting review...... You know someone who built one that snaps all the time. Do you know if it's setup properly?

I personally have no experience with the GP 1/3 Extra what-so-ever, but I have heard positive comments about it from a handful of people who do own them.

It is however, a very cheap kit for a plane this size. I would assume that there are some good reasons for it to cost less and I'll bet those reasons show up during the building process or when flying.

Wiz

Tim_Indy

I've got well over 100 flgihts on mine,, so guess I qualify to give a first hand report <G>.

Mine is powered with a BME 102cc engine, weighs 25 3/4 pounds with smoke system, and is an EXCELLENT flying plane, with my cg set up at the instruction's rear-most suggested point. The instructions suggest an elevator control throw of 1/2" up and down, but to my mind, that just didn't seem like enough, so I increased mine a bit to 1" up and down for the maiden voyage. That made the first flight a lot more exciting than it needed to be (that goodness for exponential!). I landed and put the throw back where they said it should be, and it became the best tracking plane I've flown. Rolls are very axial, snaps and spins start and stop immediately, it definitely goes where you point it. The fuse is taller than most models of the Extra, but I'm told by some full scale pilots that it's more scale in appearance. The major advantage is that the taller fuselage's increased side area provides more lifting surface. Even though the rudder area is slightly smaller than what we've become accustomed to seeing in Caps and Edges, rudder authority is EXCELLENT, and generates more lift with less yaw angle than others. This allows effortless slow rolls, point rolls, rolling circles, and yep, EFFORTLESS knife edge loops!! I like doing a knife edge pass, just a few click above idle, at high alpha (nose 45+ degrees up) crawling across the sky at seemingly 2 miles per hour!

Here's a plane that doesn't need a lot of airspeed to fly well, and most of my flying is at 1/3 to 1/2 throttle. The plane has excellent slow speed characteristics, and three points landings at a walking pace are routine! I've noted no bad habits with mine, and it flies well enough that in an IMAC contest last year (only made it to one, flew Sportsman class) I won every round I flew, and most of my competitors flew those "brand name" planes. I read a post early last season that the GP Extra was a good sport airplane, but for "serious" contest work, you needed a (fill in the blank with your favorite name brand). I enjoy beating them over the head with my "sport" plane!

Regarding 3D performance, torque rolls, waterfalls, flat spins, etc. are well within its flight envelope. It does have a relatively small elevator (again compared to the Caps and Edges) and elevators and harriers will let the wings rock, though coupling some droop into the ailerons with elevator does help.

Wiz is right that it's cost is cheap for a plane this size, but mine is still going strong. Other than routine maintenance, I've had to do nothing but gas and fly for over 100 flights! I like it well enough that I bought another one for a backup! I'm not trying to say that the GP Extra is the best plane, rather, that it, also, is definitely a GOOD one. Set it up properly (as with ANY plane) and it will make you look GOOD. If a manuever is done poorly, look in the MIRROR, not at the plane!

That's my Extra in my avitar, and I've got construction pics, and a video clip of my Extra in flight on my web site (below).

Johnny_Rebel

Ya'lls should try a Radiocraft Extra.

JBH

My Feedback: (1)

Nice job on the plane, Tim! And, from the video it looks to be a good flyer. :-)

basmntdweller

My Feedback: (9)

I will back up everything Tim said! I have watched him fly his Extra many times. I usually park whatever I'm flying to watch him. He's a way better flyer than I am. I get kinda wild at times but that's what I like (probably because I don't have the talent to fly as smooth as he does). If I had the cash I'd get one my self but I'll stick with my GP 1/4 Giles 202 for now.
Later,,, basmntdweller

Don Szczur

My Feedback: (1)

I just flew one last weekend with a BME on it and although a bit apprehensive at first, I turned out impressed with it. In spite of the small elevator it would do some really tight waterfalls. I agree that the wing rock is a bit much in high alpha, but I'm spoiled by the CAP which is superior at this. We did a side-to side comparison and its amazing how much rudder there is under the elevator of the Cap as compared to the Extra. However the Extra did rolling circles better than the CAP, and tail slides and hammerheads were much easier to get precise.

Overall very impressed with the plane.

Don

Tim_Indy

I'll agree that the Radiocraft Extra is a great airframe (and dollar-wise, Radiocraft is REAL proud of it also!).

Personally, what I ask an airframe to be is obedient, and add a minimum of itself into the commands that I give it. Mike Cross has done a stellar job with this plane, and got it right. It is a light airframe (though not the featherweight originally promised), but is strong enough not to fall apart aerodynamically (like most planes, it will NOT, however, pass the crash test!). If one builds it well, gives routine maintenance, and keeps it out of the ground, he can expect several hundred trouble free flights.

Aerodynamically, mine has zero roll coupling with rudder application, and minimal pitch coupling with rudder application. This effect is linear, in that going from low rate rudder at maybe 25 degrees to high rate rudder at 45 degrees doesn't require different anti-coupling mixes. (readers, if you know what I'm talking about, you can appreciate it. If you don't know what I'm talking about, well........never mind ). Snap and spin entries are clean, with no over-rotation on stick release and exit.

Both the Radiocraft Extra and the GP Extra are excellent pattern planes. For the $600 difference in cost the Radiocraft gives you a plane in the bones, rather than a box of wood, and a plane that does a better pop-up.

Personally, I like having the GP Extra a well kept secret! having the only one at most places does have its advantages.

Tim_Indy

Now, there is a PROFESSIONAL opinion, for sure!

Hey Don, still checking out your tape "A day at the field", and still finding it instructive. Have you made any more recently?

Don Szczur

My Feedback: (1)

Have not had the opportunity, but you give me a good idea to do this. Perhaps freestlye- more to it than meets the eye.

Cheers,
Don

T. Bob

My Feedback: (9)

I thought it was a Great Planes Extra 330L 1/3 Scale Kit
no a Great Planes Extra 300L 1/3 Scale Kit.
Lets get the numbers right.
I'll let you off with a warning this time.

Cody-RCU

Hey Kody (saying that feels weird ) isn't "DON'T BY IT" 3 words?

Anyhoo, me dad and I bought it and we have been looking through the kit (haven't started building yet) and it is a very nice kit. Good wood, nice fiberblass, comprehensive instruction manual, great plans, and all the other stuff you can expect from Great Planes.

We'll use a ZDZ 80, hitec digitals.

Don, could the wing rock be softened with the raising of the ailerons? If so, did it fall like a rock when you raised them (as I have noticed with other planes when I do this)? Also, I saw you fly (I was there) at the 2000 TOC, and you blew my mind. What was the song you flew to in freestyle?

Tim_Indy

Cody, I realize you asked Don (and he IS, after all, a TOC pilot), but here's what I experienced with mine.

First of all, the wings would rock a lot until you put the nose up to maybe 75 degrees, then it would lessen. Back the throttle down a click so the nose drops a bit (into an elevator), and the rocking increases again. I set up a mix to raise the ailerons with the elevator, and tried several different percentages of up aileron with up elevator. No, the plane didn't drop like a rock, however, this was ineffective in stopping the wing rocking. I then tried drooping the ailerons with up elevator, and found this to help a lot. Now, harriers are more stable at maybe 45 degrees angle of attack, and letting the nose drop results in more stable flat elevators also.

No, it's not as stable in elevators or harriers as both the Aeroworks Edge or the H9 Cap (both 1/3 scale). But then, it CAN do a knife edge harrier and elevator in a 10 mph headwind!

Hawk21

My Feedback: (7)

Why the wings rock?
Is this related with weight?
Thanks in advance

Don Szczur

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately no mixing on flaperons at the TOC, but that should not limit you from doing it.

Music started with "2001: A space Oddesy" And the other part was, "O Sifuni Mungu" (All creatures of our God and King).

Don

MarkShapiro

My Feedback: (52)

Saw the thread and just had to chime in. I did the product review of this plane in the July 2001 RCM. When doing product reviews, the manufacturers really prefer that you make few, if any, modifications, and use the recommended power plants, or engines within the recommended range. I followed that "rule" and built mine exactly as instructed, making changes only where structurally necessary. The result was an EXCELANT product. Plane was straight as an arrow, and incredibly strong. I agree that it was not as light as advertised, but still came in at an acceptable wieght. I had a Zenoah Z-445 on mine, since the GT 80 was not yet on the market. Even with this engine, the plane flew remarkably well. I just recently upgraded to a DA 100 and Hitec 5645 digitals. I too have just "one word" to say about my new and improved Extra HOLY SH*%T!!!!!!! This is one of my favorit planes and has new life with the DA power house of an engine. I couldn't recommend this kit highly enough.

Cody-RCU

Thank you Tim, Mark, and Don for your advice. I really appreciate it.

Hawk21

My Feedback: (7)

Does some one know why the wings rock??
What is the cause to this problem??

Tim_Indy

Hi Hawk, no I don't feel that weight is an issue with the wing rock. Mine weighs 25.5 pounds, and the wing loading isn't bad at all. I'm going to install 1" spacers so that the wings don't slide so far into the fuse, and that will yield two more inches in wingspan (102") but an additional 24 square inches in wing area with zero penalty, weight or otherwise.

I'm also going to reduce the weight down to 24 pounds but I don't think that the resulting reduction in wing loading will help the wing rocking situation. Drooping the ailerons has worked best for me for elevators and harriers.

Darrinc

My Feedback: (5)

quote:
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Originally posted by Hawk21
Does some one know why the wings rock??
What is the cause to this problem??
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Wing rock is generally caused by a trailing edge stall. When at high alpha, the air sticks from the trailing edge and goes forward. The air typically comes off at the max thickness point and then the wing drops, which then the sudden movement pulls the air off of the other wing and it drops.


There are several ways to fix the problem. One of them is to move your max thickness point a few degrees forward as with a Lazer wing which will give the air a longer surface to stick to. Another is to mix your ailerons with elevator which will give you wash out/in, this changes the airfoil and trickes the air into sticking deeper in to the stall.

You can think of it as a flying wing when you are at high alpha, the tail is fully stalled and for all good purposes, is not there any more, you now flying on the wing alone. Most of my experiance with flying wings has had me almost always put reflex in to the ailerons.


My 2 cents,

Darrin C

Hawk21

My Feedback: (7)

So you are telling me that the Extra 330L wing rock will be solve
with an airfoil change ( thin wing)???

Benny

Darrinc

My Feedback: (5)

That is just one way to solve the harrier/elevator wing rock problem. The wing does not have to be thin, I'm at 18% with my wing that I have designed.

Since I have designed a wing with this problem in mind, I will be flying my 1/3 scale Extra with the newly designed wing VS the stock wing, and will be posting this spring on the differences between the overall flying charactoristics of the two wings.

The interesting thing is that my 1/4 scale Cap will rock the wings if I go into a Harrier slowly, but if I do it from a Terminator, it's rock solid!?! I haven't fiqured that one out yet...

Regards,

Darrin C

Hawk21

My Feedback: (7)

Tim_Indy
What servos are you using?
And how many?

Tim_Indy

Hawk, I'm using 6 JR 8411s (one per aileron, one per elevator half, and two for the rudder in a pull-pull) and a pair of Hitec 605s for the throttle and choke (had them laying around). I didn't put the rudder servos in the tail per plan because Great Planes had suggested using an 85cc MacMinarelli engine and since my 102cc BME was over 2 pounds lighter, I thought it best to move the rudder servos into the fuse to avoid a tail heavy condition requiring a lot of dead nose weight. Click the "WWW" button below to see details on my web site.