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  1. #1
    Sessholvlaru's Avatar
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    Perry Pump needed on O.S. 1.60 for 3D?

    I am getting the Great Planes Su-31 and using my O.S. 1.60 for power. My question: Do I need a Perry Pump for reliable operation during 3D maneuvers? I have several other 3D planes, but they are all smaller 4-strokers. I had the motor on a Taylorcraft and it seemed to hover fine with quick power transition, but I will be getting much lower to the ground with the Su-31. Thanks guys. -Chris
    When you stare into the abyss, sometimes the abyss stares right back into you.

  2. #2

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    RE: Perry Pump needed on O.S. 1.60 for 3D?

    that plane may be a bit heavy to 3D with the OS 160. I wouldn't go over 12 lbs (no fuel) to 3D with the 1.60. I didn't see much info on that plane when I searched, but if it's similar to the GP yak in that size, it'll be too heavy for the 160.


  3. #3
    maineflyer's Avatar
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    RE: Perry Pump needed on O.S. 1.60 for 3D?

    I have 1.60s on 2 yaks (EF 74" and MagicHand 73") both are 11lbs 5 oz and have good power for 3D. I have pumps on both for transition and I seem to be able to back both needles way down so you also save fuel. Once they are set right you get very good transition and fewer deadsticks. I am still up aways with mine because they are new and I don't want to pancake the planes in from a deadstick. I would agree 11.5 lbs to 12 lbs is the limit for any real 3D with the 1.60. I am running APC 18x6W prop on mine.
    Jeff
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  4. #4
    Sessholvlaru's Avatar
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    RE: Perry Pump needed on O.S. 1.60 for 3D?

    There is an RCU review of the plane where the guy used the 1.60 and there are pages on here about it which are tough to find. All claim the 1.60 has more than enough power for 3D. The RCU review has video, and hover pull-out looks pretty darn good to me. I have another 1.60 on a 17 pound Sea Fury and it pulls it at well over 120 mph in level flight.

    http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=948

    "First off, I try not to pre judge a plane by its weight, but rarely does an ARF come out LESS than the advertised minimum. This one did, and by 5 ounces. The lower advertised weight is 13 pounds and mine came out at 12 pounds 11 ounces which for the OS 1.60FX is nothing. The engine throws the plane around like a rag doll. Vertical is just ridiculous and pullout from a hover is just great. All I could ask."
    When you stare into the abyss, sometimes the abyss stares right back into you.

  5. #5

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    RE: Perry Pump needed on O.S. 1.60 for 3D?

    Let us know how it goes. In my experience, the OS 160 on 10% fuel with the bisson pitts muffler would not pull out of a hover with any sort of authority for me - 1000 above sea level, warm temperatures. With 20% fuel, it would pull out decently from a hover. I switched over to a bud bottle muffler and custom made header and now it pulls out from a hover nicely on 10% fuel, and this is on an extreme-flight 74" yak that weighs about 11.5 lbs. Maybe my engine is a bit of a dud, but from my experience I would use the 160/pitts muffler up to maybe 10.5 lbs and a 160/bud bottle pipe up to 12 lbs if you want to run 10% fuel.

  6. #6
    Sessholvlaru's Avatar
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    RE: Perry Pump needed on O.S. 1.60 for 3D?

    I will be sure to. I run mine on 15% Omega (pink stuff) and it seems to like it. I will probably strap my on-board glow to help with the low range transitions too.
    When you stare into the abyss, sometimes the abyss stares right back into you.

  7. #7

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    RE: Perry Pump needed on O.S. 1.60 for 3D?

    I have the OS 160 on a Dave Patrick Ultimate at 13 pounds. The power is marginal at this weight. It will hover okay, but don't expect it to pull you out of trouble.

    Also, I set it up with the perry pump from day one. Once I got it dialed in, runs great. Before I got it dialed in though, had all sorts of problems. Two needle valves is bad enough, add a mixture screw and it's a pain.

  8. #8
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    RE: Perry Pump needed on O.S. 1.60 for 3D?

    I've always had a rule of thumb with the OS 1.60 to use a perry pump. Fuel draw issues will cause you a headache, make sure you mount it right and it will be a great running motor for you.
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  9. #9
    Sessholvlaru's Avatar
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    RE: Perry Pump needed on O.S. 1.60 for 3D?

    Thanks for the advice. It seems like the $29.99 from Tower is a good investment. -Chris
    When you stare into the abyss, sometimes the abyss stares right back into you.

  10. #10

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    RE: Perry Pump needed on O.S. 1.60 for 3D?

    I run the 160 and pump on a sub 12# EF Yak. Pull out is confident and steady,while rolling and snapping upright to infinity. No limit at sea level. 10% APC 18x6W

  11. #11

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    RE: Perry Pump needed on O.S. 1.60 for 3D?

    I run a pump on all my big two strokers....

    Advice....

    Tune the PUMP to the engine..... not the engine to the pump....

    IE... get your engine running right WITHOUT the pump.. then install the pump and adjust the pump so that the top end is the same as without it

    Take a full throttle RPM reading wihtout the pump, the install the pump and adjust the pump until you get the same reading at full throttle....

    Usually when i install the pump, it richens the heck out of the top end and i have to lean out the pump

    You want the pump to aid in supplying fuel where the engine needs it, not to force fuel down its throat!!!

    You'll probably have to dial the idle screw back in on the carb with the pump added, but, do that after you adjust the pump for top end..

    I know from experience that adding the pump and they trying to adjust the engine to the setting on the pump is a NIGHTMARE...


    NOW THEN..... Pitts Mufflers...... Pitts mufflers wreak havok on two stroke engines exhuast backpressure properties.... not only the AMOUNT of pressure, but the backpressure WAVE TIMING...... From my experience... it usually screws the midrange up worst.... which is kinda important for 3-d now aint it!!!

    The first time i became aware of it (MAN that reminds me of a dead milkmen song....) was when i put a pitts muffler on a 91 FX and it ran lean in the midrange..... A pump solved the problem... but then i got to thinking.. man.. that motor ran fine with the stock muffler...... then i thought back to my dirtbike days and changing the expansion pipe on my Honda CR and what that did to the engines powerband.... Exhaust backpressure wave timing is everything to a two stroke!


  12. #12
    Sessholvlaru's Avatar
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    RE: Perry Pump needed on O.S. 1.60 for 3D?

    Well I have about 10 flights on the Su-31 with the 1.60. Still don't have a pump on it...doesn't seem to need it at all. Runs great during hovers, rolling harriers, high G maneuvers, etc. Never a stumble. I weighed it with fuel and got 13 pounds, 8 ounces. Big tank, not sure what that weighs. However, power is very good with the 1.60 and I have it set rich in the cowl. Pull outs from hovers aren't ballistic, but it is very strong. I have flown with 15% and 10% pink, on a Slimline Pitts muffler. I am very happy with the power and performance without the pump, and considering I bought the 1.60 used off RCU, maybe I just got a really good one? Well so far so good and I love this plane! Will probably invest in the pump anyway, but hate the idea of letting the vent line hang. Does the pump still work as well with the back pressure to the tank?
    When you stare into the abyss, sometimes the abyss stares right back into you.

  13. #13
    Les Nessman's Avatar
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    RE: Perry Pump needed on O.S. 1.60 for 3D?

    From what I have read, you do not want the backpressure in the tank when using the pump. I have this engine in a 27% Cap 232 and love it. Running 10 % and a Xoar 18 x 6, perry pump, it never misses a beat. The vibration at idle bothers me a bit, but that's normal Im told. I do not 3 d mine though, not that good yet, but vertical flight is good and strong.
    If it\'\'\'\'s not broke, don\'\'\'\'t mess with it.

  14. #14
    Sessholvlaru's Avatar
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    RE: Perry Pump needed on O.S. 1.60 for 3D?

    How do you have the vent line set up from the tank? Do you have it looped to prevent fuel leakage? I would imagine fuel could find its way out during aerobatics. Also, my 1.60 doesn't vibrate at all, and can idle it down so much you can see the prop turning. I run an APC 18x6 with the large aluminum spinner that comes with the Sukhoi and idles much smoother than any 4-stroke I own.
    When you stare into the abyss, sometimes the abyss stares right back into you.

  15. #15
    Les Nessman's Avatar
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    RE: Perry Pump needed on O.S. 1.60 for 3D?

    Sessholvlaru , sorry, I was away a couple days. I have a three line system on mine, one goes to the pump, one is a fill line that I have a check valve in and the third is vent and I did loop it as high as I could. I doo get the odd drible out of there, but for the most part it would be sucking through there when the motor is running. The vibration thing is interesting, mine shakes the whole plane when its idling. I can also adjust my idle down very low, but I try to set mine to the place where it shakes the plane the least amount. I don't know, some people say they shake like crazy. I have everything balanced, and engine is now broke in and leaned out so it is as smooth as it is going to get. I am runnong Xoar 18 X 6, and will try an APC when I get to a Hobby shop to get one.
    If it\'\'\'\'s not broke, don\'\'\'\'t mess with it.

  16. #16

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    RE: Perry Pump needed on O.S. 1.60 for 3D?

    I'm currently building a Goldberg 60 sized Extra. I have a OS91 fx 2 stroke, slimline pitts, and purchased the perry pump. Never used a pump before. I am considering moving the fuel tank back about 6 inches so it's over the CG. The tank will also have to move down a couple of inches. Will the pump be able to move the fuel properly with the tank moved in that position? Also, can someone give me the step by step on how to adjust the pump / engine? I'm new to the hobby and can use any advise. 2nd plane. Thanks!

  17. #17
    Sessholvlaru's Avatar
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    RE: Perry Pump needed on O.S. 1.60 for 3D?

    Although I don't have experience with the Perry Pump, I would ask you if you are ready for this plane. A .60 sized Extra is not a good second airplane, unless your first plane was something fairly advanced. What was your first plane? If it was a high wing trainer I would say to put the Extra away or get a sporty low winger in the meantime. The Extra would make a good third airplane.
    When you stare into the abyss, sometimes the abyss stares right back into you.

  18. #18

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    RE: Perry Pump needed on O.S. 1.60 for 3D?

    I know what you mean and I am cautiously attempting this with the advise of more experienced flyers. Midstar 40 was my first plane. Lost it in a midair crash. My plan was to build the Extra over the winter and finish the season with the midstar. The midair messed up the plan. Can't help that! I've flown it about 50 times solo. Was pretty efficient with it. Could land it very easily, and for those that have this particular Extra, they claim it lands easier than a trainer. Very stable aircraft. I've built many many control line planes, so I think I'm a competent builder. As far as my flying skills go, I was okay / good at straight and level flight, loops, rolls, split S, immelman, cuban eights, stall turns, simple spins, and was just getting good at inverted flight. I can knife edge, right to left only looking at the canopy. I know this is the 3D forum. I don't even attempt that. Just saw the perry thing in a search. If the plane crashes, it crashes - that's life! The plane is almost completed, and I will go up on the buddy box with the guys at the field. They all agree that I will be able to fly this plane with their help. I understand the risks and have a plan to be successful.

  19. #19

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    RE: Perry Pump needed on O.S. 1.60 for 3D?

    The Goldberg Extra 300 (60 sized) does land very easily. If you were 100% on a Midstar then you should be able to land the Goldberg.


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