Flyn' the H9 Funtana Set up's and Mods
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Wing dowel wear.
After only 10 flights my wing locating dowels show significant wear, approx. 15 % of the diameter. The wear pattern is consistent with right rolling manoeuvers (who rolls left, anyway? ). Clearly, the gear bulkhead is too thin, causing high bearing loads on the dowels, probably made worse by soft dowel material. I am in process of reinforcing the bulkhead and replacing the dowels. I guess if my experience is in any way typical it will pay to inspect this area frequently. The only good news is that this wear is allowing the wing to move around and may be contributing to the airplane's atrocious elevator sensitivity.
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Flyn' the H9 Funtana Set up's and Mods
IFLYIT, - I installed an elevator servo on each elevator half (HS 225's) similar to my UCD60. I have HS605's on the ailerons. Regardless of the above, this is the worst pitch sensitivity I have ever experienced.
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For those who have not seen the Funtana in action, go to www.minnesotarc.com They have a video of the Funtana doing a harrier into a torque roll than into a harrier rolling circle. Pretty cool.
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I'm really starting to wonder if the comments I'm reading about this plane snapping and being extremely pitch-sensitive aren't coming from the same people who have reported problems with the wing-dowels?
It seems obvious there's some pretty significant differences in the building/quality of this plane...
Has anyone fixed the wing-dowel problem on their plane and eliminated the movement of the wing in the saddle? If so, can someone report on whether or not this improved the snapping tendancies and/or helped with the pitch sensitivity?
It seems like there's quite a few people out there who are rather frustrated with their Funtana...it would be nice to find out if this is a relatively easy fix.
I know my Funtana does not exhibit any of the snapping issues other people are reporting, and while it did seem pitch sensitive...it was definitely manageable and a little tweaking with a computer radio soften it right up.
The only major difference I have picked up on between mine and others Funtana is that my wing is really almost a press-fit into the wing saddle. Even once the wing-dowels are in the holes, I have to apply some pressure to seat the wing enough to bolt it down. Even before it's bolted down, the wing really doesn't want to move around once it's seated. Maybe I just got lucky??
It seems obvious there's some pretty significant differences in the building/quality of this plane...
Has anyone fixed the wing-dowel problem on their plane and eliminated the movement of the wing in the saddle? If so, can someone report on whether or not this improved the snapping tendancies and/or helped with the pitch sensitivity?
It seems like there's quite a few people out there who are rather frustrated with their Funtana...it would be nice to find out if this is a relatively easy fix.
I know my Funtana does not exhibit any of the snapping issues other people are reporting, and while it did seem pitch sensitive...it was definitely manageable and a little tweaking with a computer radio soften it right up.
The only major difference I have picked up on between mine and others Funtana is that my wing is really almost a press-fit into the wing saddle. Even once the wing-dowels are in the holes, I have to apply some pressure to seat the wing enough to bolt it down. Even before it's bolted down, the wing really doesn't want to move around once it's seated. Maybe I just got lucky??
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Mine flys great
I put 6 min epoxy around the holes accidently when I was building and now I really have to push the wing down to fit. + I have a piece of foam mousepad athe the aft end of my fuel tank the helps everything fit tight.
I feel this plane is Good at 3-d but is a Great Flying airplane. I have other planes that will do any one trick great but this plane will do it all. Ass far as walls. Mine is so fast it sounds like somebody snaping a rug when it does it.
Waterfalls were really really tight with spolierons. Mine will ke but not loop.
Dan
I feel this plane is Good at 3-d but is a Great Flying airplane. I have other planes that will do any one trick great but this plane will do it all. Ass far as walls. Mine is so fast it sounds like somebody snaping a rug when it does it.
Waterfalls were really really tight with spolierons. Mine will ke but not loop.
Dan
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Flyn' the H9 Funtana Set up's and Mods
Originally posted by jmiracle
I'm really starting to wonder if the comments I'm reading about this plane snapping and being extremely pitch-sensitive aren't coming from the same people who have reported problems with the wing-dowels?
I'm really starting to wonder if the comments I'm reading about this plane snapping and being extremely pitch-sensitive aren't coming from the same people who have reported problems with the wing-dowels?
TGP
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Flyn' the H9 Funtana Set up's and Mods
Originally posted by TerryPhillips
My wing has a pretty good fit from the factory, but I still used some 3/8w x 1/8t wing seating tape to seal/snug things up a bit. Regardless, it's still very pitch sensitive. I have brought it to a level of comfort with D/Rs and Expo, but all I've done it covered up the problem, not fixed it. Kind of discerning...
TGP
My wing has a pretty good fit from the factory, but I still used some 3/8w x 1/8t wing seating tape to seal/snug things up a bit. Regardless, it's still very pitch sensitive. I have brought it to a level of comfort with D/Rs and Expo, but all I've done it covered up the problem, not fixed it. Kind of discerning...
TGP
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So far in the first 6 flights, I've had to focus on my OS 46FX due to tuning issues. Now that that's solved, i'll concentrate on flying and twisting the plane up a bit. I'll take some mental notes of the issues posted here and get back with ya'll.
TGP
TGP
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Flyn' the H9 Funtana Set up's and Mods
I fixed my dowels by gluing a piece of 11/32" brass tubing over them and drilling out the bulkhead with a uni bit.
Mine gets a little pitch sensitive when the tank is almost empty but is okay untill then. My cg is right at the rear of the recommended range.
Mine gets a little pitch sensitive when the tank is almost empty but is okay untill then. My cg is right at the rear of the recommended range.
#35
Flyn' the H9 Funtana Set up's and Mods
jmiracle: I never really complained about the plane, but did post the comment about the wing dowels. Whether or not it affects performance is for someone else to determine. I have just begun to practice 3D and have no bias or knowledge. In fact, I stated that in my post about the wing dowels. Its just me suggesting a few improvements to keep the wing from coming off at an inopportune time or any time.
OH...and another thing, a guy in the club that I fly with has one and has been flying it a little longer. The sheeting on the top is starting crack under the ultracote. We are both thinking about how to reinforce it. Either by putting CA on the underside, or a little fiberglass to keep it sturdy.
Just trying to be helpful.
OH...and another thing, a guy in the club that I fly with has one and has been flying it a little longer. The sheeting on the top is starting crack under the ultracote. We are both thinking about how to reinforce it. Either by putting CA on the underside, or a little fiberglass to keep it sturdy.
Just trying to be helpful.
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Re: Mine flys great
Waterfalls were really really tight with spolierons. Mine will ke but not loop.
Dan [/B][/QUOTE]
did you double bevel anything? i have not tryed a waterwall yet because i am having engine problems and wont even pull vertical.(my carb gets stuck and wont go past half throttle)
i'm thinking to make it waterfall better people could try to make it a bit more tail heavy. i adjust my CG till it will do anything i want and still do good pattern flying.
Dan [/B][/QUOTE]
did you double bevel anything? i have not tryed a waterwall yet because i am having engine problems and wont even pull vertical.(my carb gets stuck and wont go past half throttle)
i'm thinking to make it waterfall better people could try to make it a bit more tail heavy. i adjust my CG till it will do anything i want and still do good pattern flying.
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Flyn' the H9 Funtana Set up's and Mods
hookeonrc: I understand fully. I don't have any complaints about mine either.
However I also realize no plane is perfect and that there's bound to be differences from one kit to another.
I'm just trying to throw out some suggestions for others to see if we can't make it even better than it already is!
The more we know what works and what doesn't, the better chance all of us have of improving how it flys. ....just my thought....
One thing I've picked up from this thread that I haven't tried is using spoilerons during a waterfall. My Funtana doesn't do waterfalls very well, and maybe this will help. Next time I'm out, I'll give it a try and let everyone know what happens.
However I also realize no plane is perfect and that there's bound to be differences from one kit to another.
I'm just trying to throw out some suggestions for others to see if we can't make it even better than it already is!
The more we know what works and what doesn't, the better chance all of us have of improving how it flys. ....just my thought....
One thing I've picked up from this thread that I haven't tried is using spoilerons during a waterfall. My Funtana doesn't do waterfalls very well, and maybe this will help. Next time I'm out, I'll give it a try and let everyone know what happens.
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Flyn' the H9 Funtana Set up's and Mods
Oh yea, and can you describe a little more where you noticed the sheeting cracking? Was it on the wing or the fuse?
I'd like to know so I can keep an eye on mine in case mine starts to crack as well. Thanks.
I'd like to know so I can keep an eye on mine in case mine starts to crack as well. Thanks.
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Re: Mine flys great
Originally posted by garydog
I put 6 min epoxy around the holes accidently when I was building and now I really have to push the wing down to fit. Dan
I put 6 min epoxy around the holes accidently when I was building and now I really have to push the wing down to fit. Dan
When I put the dowels in I coated the surface and painted over that front section with thinned down epoxy to fuel proof it. I've had no problems with the wing fit....
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Flyn' the H9 Funtana Set up's and Mods
I noticed on the second trip to the field with mine last night that my wing dowels are loose as well, and I also found one helluva twist in my rudder! LOL So I flew it anyways seeing I was already out there, as I mentioned in a previous post I have the "drop-a-wing" issue while trying to harrier as well, and pulling out of some vertical stuff when going downwind but can to a popup just fine most of the time. I am eager to see how this flies with a straight rudder (shrunk the twist out with the covering no problem) and tighter wing. One thing I do have to say is this plane does the most beautiful inverted flat spins for a .40 sized airplane!! I can actually stop it in the air flat spinning not losing altitude and Im sure once I get used to it should be able to climb inverted while flat spinning Good thread going here about some the issues with this plane and everybodies ideas and methods of solving them.
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Flyn' the H9 Funtana Set up's and Mods
My wing dowls are just fine and I have flown mine over 30 times. I have no snapping as well. I used 30 min epoxy on the wing dowls. As far as being pitch sensitive I do not know. I just fly the plane and pull as much elevator I need doing a manuever. Mine will waterfall all day.
#42
Flyn' the H9 Funtana Set up's and Mods
jmiracle: On the cracking, if the plane is sitting upright, the cracks are beginning to appear from the firewall back to the cockpit. When inverted, it is from the firewall on the underneath the fuel tank and running along the bottom (top if it is right side up) back to the cockpit area. To get to the front, you would need to remove the tank and any foam that might be underneath. In the rest, it is already exposed from the throttle servo forward to the bulkhead where the wing dowels are inserted. I am considering using a brush and brushing on 5 min epoxy. I know this will add weight, but I am not sure what else to do. I will also strenghten the dowels and bulkhead area around the tank for the dowels.
Just for the record, even if I can't get this plane to do everything, I still am impressed what it offers for the size and weight.
Just for the record, even if I can't get this plane to do everything, I still am impressed what it offers for the size and weight.
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Flyn' the H9 Funtana Set up's and Mods
Making the wing, not move around does help with the pitch sensitivity. In an earlier post, I told of my fix to keep the wing from moving. The bolt that comes with the plane, is not a 1/4-20. I don't know the size, however there is a noticeable difference between the two.
So, it's the snapping out that has me curious, because mine still does it. So I read the instructions, since I never read them while building the plane, ooops
My CG is right at the 6 inch mark. Weight, 5 1/2 pounds. Now mine is heavy, it could be an easy half pound lighter. I did use all high torque high speed metal gear servos and a 6 volt, 1100 mill pack.
Recommended 3D rates: 40 degrees of travel. My low rate is 45 degrees. So YES, this would make the plane snap out. My high rate is 70 degrees.
Most current generation 3D planes that I have flown, will allow for extreme throws without stalling the wing. The Funtana, with its scale type wing, with allot of taper in the leading edge, will not allow it. I noticed the same thing with a couple Giles that I have flown.
IMO the snap is a combo of the wing design and the amount of throw. Is there a fix? No. Just reduce the rate on the elevator, however I am gonna play with spoilerons and flaperons.
So, it's the snapping out that has me curious, because mine still does it. So I read the instructions, since I never read them while building the plane, ooops
My CG is right at the 6 inch mark. Weight, 5 1/2 pounds. Now mine is heavy, it could be an easy half pound lighter. I did use all high torque high speed metal gear servos and a 6 volt, 1100 mill pack.
Recommended 3D rates: 40 degrees of travel. My low rate is 45 degrees. So YES, this would make the plane snap out. My high rate is 70 degrees.
Most current generation 3D planes that I have flown, will allow for extreme throws without stalling the wing. The Funtana, with its scale type wing, with allot of taper in the leading edge, will not allow it. I noticed the same thing with a couple Giles that I have flown.
IMO the snap is a combo of the wing design and the amount of throw. Is there a fix? No. Just reduce the rate on the elevator, however I am gonna play with spoilerons and flaperons.
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Flyn' the H9 Funtana Set up's and Mods
Ynot, can you twist your elevator halces easy? I am hoping that is the problem with mine as I can hold one side and twist the other one about 1/2" pretty easy, like the joiner is soft.
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Pitch snsitive?
I've heard lots of talk about this plane being pitch sensitive.
Can anybody explain exactly what this means in terms of the flying characteristics?
I haven't done any tight loops or violent maneuvers so I'm sure I haven't seen the plane snap....
Can anybody explain exactly what this means in terms of the flying characteristics?
I haven't done any tight loops or violent maneuvers so I'm sure I haven't seen the plane snap....
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Flyn' the H9 Funtana Set up's and Mods
What % of expo are you guys using. I'm going to set the throws per the book and the CG at the back of the recommended. I have 100 flights on a Pizzaz and have only 30% high and 15% low.
Looking at the surfaces on the Funtana it's going to need a little more. later daveo
Looking at the surfaces on the Funtana it's going to need a little more. later daveo
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I'm using a JR XP8103 and I'm using 30% - 40% expo on mine..
But then, seeing as it's my first aerobatic plane I'm not doing 3D anyway....
But then, seeing as it's my first aerobatic plane I'm not doing 3D anyway....
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Pitch sensitivity and expo
Hi tiggerinva,
When people say a plane is pitch sensitive, what they're saying is that it is basically unstable in the pitch axis. This translates to that it takes very little input to make the plane move in the pitch axis, making it uncomfortable to fly because you are constantly chasing the pitch.....I have not flown mine yet, but my bet is that in most cases the complaints about pitch sensitivity is not the result of a design flaw, but a setup flaw. You should do as daveopam just said he's going to do. Set your throws as per the book, and do 95% of your flying on low rates. When you're going to do a 3D maneuver switch to high rates for the maneuver and then switch right back to low rates. Do not try to fly around on high rates, no matter what you have the expo set to.
Now daveopam, about expos. I'll set mine up to start at very high expos on high rates and low expo on low rates. Probably 60-70% on both elevator and rudder and 50-60% on ailerons. I also setup some expo on low rates(20-30%) as it tends to help dampen out your control inputs and helps you to fly smoother, including preventing you from "chasing" the pitch.
I typically setup all my 3D rates on one switch(rudder, elevator and ailerons), and have a separate switch for knifeedge that turns on only rudder high rate which also has any roll or pitch mix needed....then there are other switches I setup for other specific maneuvers, but I think that's getting too complicated for this discussion. Everyone seems to have their own preference on these setup items that go beyond the basics.
When people say a plane is pitch sensitive, what they're saying is that it is basically unstable in the pitch axis. This translates to that it takes very little input to make the plane move in the pitch axis, making it uncomfortable to fly because you are constantly chasing the pitch.....I have not flown mine yet, but my bet is that in most cases the complaints about pitch sensitivity is not the result of a design flaw, but a setup flaw. You should do as daveopam just said he's going to do. Set your throws as per the book, and do 95% of your flying on low rates. When you're going to do a 3D maneuver switch to high rates for the maneuver and then switch right back to low rates. Do not try to fly around on high rates, no matter what you have the expo set to.
Now daveopam, about expos. I'll set mine up to start at very high expos on high rates and low expo on low rates. Probably 60-70% on both elevator and rudder and 50-60% on ailerons. I also setup some expo on low rates(20-30%) as it tends to help dampen out your control inputs and helps you to fly smoother, including preventing you from "chasing" the pitch.
I typically setup all my 3D rates on one switch(rudder, elevator and ailerons), and have a separate switch for knifeedge that turns on only rudder high rate which also has any roll or pitch mix needed....then there are other switches I setup for other specific maneuvers, but I think that's getting too complicated for this discussion. Everyone seems to have their own preference on these setup items that go beyond the basics.
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Flyn' the H9 Funtana Set up's and Mods
Thanks Bill, I think mine is fairly docile as I've set up my low rates all slightly lower than the book and the high rates aren't anywhere near the book specs as I haven't used long servo arms... I think my balance point is around 5 1/2" so I'm not seeing this pitch sensitivity that others have mentioned.
Now for the interesting stuff: I've just been reading the XP8103 programming guide. It recommends setting up a ELE-FLAP mix so that the flaps move in the same direction as the elevator ie on up elevator both ailerons go up and vise versa.
What can I expect from this?
Now for the interesting stuff: I've just been reading the XP8103 programming guide. It recommends setting up a ELE-FLAP mix so that the flaps move in the same direction as the elevator ie on up elevator both ailerons go up and vise versa.
What can I expect from this?
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Re: Good report
Originally posted by bpryor
Hi Gumby2!
Thanks for the report. I'm going to fly mine this weekend so I'm trying to gather as much info as possible before then. There's a couple of important things you didn't mention. First, what is the total weight of your plane, and second, how old is your .72 (is it broken in), and what fuel are you using with it?
Thanks for the additional info.
Bill
Hi Gumby2!
Thanks for the report. I'm going to fly mine this weekend so I'm trying to gather as much info as possible before then. There's a couple of important things you didn't mention. First, what is the total weight of your plane, and second, how old is your .72 (is it broken in), and what fuel are you using with it?
Thanks for the additional info.
Bill
My Funtana weighs roughly 5.5 lbs and the Saito is brand new. I bench ran it with 4 tanks (4 oz) of fuel prior to putting it in the Funtana. I wouldn't call it fully broken in but it is reponding well. BTW my wing dowels fit well and show no signs of wear. I've got Futaba standard 3004's on ailerons a couple of 5101's on the tail surfaces and an old micro (aristo craft) on the throttle. I also made vinyl graphics and got rid of those lousy stickers H9 put on!
Thanks,
Alan