ES CONTROL

2 Years ago I started to mess around with 3D . learning to hover did not take long to learn, as long as I keep the top of plane in sight . Today I still can not hover wile looking at bottom of plane. I have tried on my flight simulator for many hrs. I am not looking to do all the other stuff . All I want is to learn to control rud. ele. when the landing gear is in sight. ( Ailerons no problem ) Is their anything to help my stupid brain and thumbs ?

ThumbSkull

My Feedback: (57)

Work on your inverted harriers. Then inverted harrier figure 8's.
Torque rolling and the belly to you in a hover will then just arrive.

Revy

My Feedback: (1)

I don't look at the nose or the tail... I look at a point in the canopy where the wingtube passes through the fuse. Helped out huge...I can lock into a hover if my CG is correct, a bit tail heavy.  As for looking at the bottom... remember left is right and visa versa. I got frustrated too and still am not perfect when the gear is towards me. Practice, I need more practice. An excuse to go to the field!

wind junkie

My Feedback: (1)

It took me 3 months of practice on the sim AT LEAST 30 minutes EVERY night before bed. Plus about 100 props worth of crashes and a durable airplane in real life to get to the point where I could torque roll close to myself without "scaring" myself. you know the feeling, when you're actually in control of the plane and not the other way around.

I learned on a glo fuel powered plane but now that EPP foamies are everywhere that's the easiest way to get a cheap durable plane for real life experience. The sim will only get you so far.

Joe

racelikustolit3k

My Feedback: (73)

I had to learn real quick on the little funtana I started 3d'ing with, I kept my mind on the tx and just watched the plane.. I soon figured out that if I kept pressure on the rudder one way or the other and it went to drop a wing when it started rolling, I would just pop the rudder the other way. after about 20 flights of just hovering, it all went away and I just do it with out thinking..

just fly alot of rudder also like, burn some fuel on the KE and roll the plane a few times, then stop it where ever and fly it out on the edge, your brain will just do it after a little time ( thats how I figured out the rolling harrier stick stir ) or pull into an upline and point the belly to you and try like hell to keep it vertical and wings flat


after a while you will be one with the TR and everything else will just fall together

RACE

Dave45

I practiced inverted stall turns a bunch.  Inverted pass, push to vertical, correct with rudder if the line gets off, stall turn, push to recover inverted, etc.   This isn't too risky so its a good one to practice with a real airplane.  Correcting the upline with the rudder was really good practice.  I also used to  do inverted figure 8s and use rudder in the turns.  Less difficult than the inverted harrier mentioned above, which is also great practice.  
Then I practiced torque rolls on the sim a bunch.  Finally got to where I could correct without thinking.   I still practice TR's, on the sim or at the field, all the time.  I find this orientation is one I have to keep up on.

ES CONTROL

I am still practicing 3D on my sim. I see a small improvement. Is their any more encouragement?

wind junkie

My Feedback: (1)

Not sure what you mean by "R.P.M."

Trim should be neutral in all respects. You didnt' say which sim you are using. Any of the "giant scale" 3D planes on most of the popular sims will be good the way they come ready to fly.

I find the stock yak 54 on Realflight good.

ES CONTROL

Sorry , I have evevator trim set to the hover RPM so I do not have to hold up elevator in a hover . Is this correct?

wind junkie

My Feedback: (1)

Still don't know what you mean by RPM. In my world, RPM means revolutions per minute. It's a unit of angular speed and has no bearing on elevator trim.

for 3D I like my elevator trim to be totally neutral so the plane drops equally in upright AND inverted flight. If your plane is a good 3D airframe, with CG, thrust angle and incidences are good, you will also get very nice KE response (no coupling). Also, there will be no need for constant elevator input to torque roll only corrections as the plane falls off.

Jezmo

I do not change the elevator trim after it is set for level flight. I have my CG set to allow straight and level flight at just over half throttle, both inverted and upright, and the trim is set accordingly. When I am hovering I am constantly moving both sticks in all axis'. If you listen to a tube vid with a good 3Der hovering you will notice the throttle is constantly changing and also the tail feathers are constantly moving as are the ailerons. It is my opinion, and you'll get a bunch of those on here, that you don't want the plane to be trimmed to any type of "neutral" while in a hover. It is better to be fighting the controls just a tad and that helps train your brain, to a degree, for thoughtless correction of attitude. I also agree with ThumbSkull above that inverted harriers help a bunch. Wind junkie's 30 minutes of practice a night is also good and probably the minimum needed to become proficient at the more difficult maneuvers. Take a look at this vid and you'll see the controls constantly moving and hear the throttle working. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRqdMjlBo3w

As far as difficulty, the YAK 54 3D in RF G3.5 is more difficult to hover than my AeroWorks 50cc Extra 260 in real life with one exception, the real planes torque roll much more than the sim requiring more aileron to counteract. I believe my E-Flite Extra 260 480 size is somewhat comparable in difficulty to the G3.5 YAK. Good luck and remember, practice, practice, practice.

baronbrian

My Feedback: (13)

This can be a big help- when you're in a hover and looking at the top of the wing, the rudder moves the nose of the plane where you want it to be. when looking at the bottom of the plane the rudder stick move the tail where you want it.

nitro wing

My Feedback: (1)

Fly flat upright figure 8's consistently and maintain altitude, correct with rudder and minimal aileron, then fly the same inverted both directions of runway if permitted, fly this pattern alot. medium speed under 100 feet. close to you. Fly it some more, fast and slow.

Then add a 4 point roll or just partial KE to this sequence, both directions. Over and over and over. You will build confidence at any heading soon. You need the rudder at all times, its your elevator during rotations. Get this in your head.

You can build any sequence upon this slowly. Up/downlines should come easily after. Hovers are simplified.

Set up and aircraft type are a huge factor. Low wing loading and extra power/torque is ideal.

What plane/engine and radio set up are you using? Radio settings play a big role here too. Provide the info and help is ready.

ES CONTROL

Futaba 9C radio     Flying 42" A J Slick  Setting up a used U Can do 60 With a over sized engine, and Dreaming about a 70" A J Slick

nitro wing

My Feedback: (1)

These small aircraft are alot harder to set up and fly for anyone. You need to keep the little ones extra light and put in lots of expo.
Yes, if you got a 70 inch and bigger, you'll find a huge diffrence in overall handling and enjoyment. Likely find the learning curve to be easier and way more fun. Of course the $$ goes up alot too.

ThumbSkull

My Feedback: (57)

The secrets to learning 3D are easy.

1. Pick the correct airframe to learn on. This is huge. If it needs to be relatively small, then Mojo, Tufflight Bouncer or TuffYak, ValueHobby Sabre, or LamYak.
2. Pick the right gear for it. Also huge.
3. Burn fuel. Lots of fuel.
4. Watch these guys fly: [link=http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=McDDD&aq=f]McDDD[/link], [link=http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ProBro+Andy&aq=f]ProBro Andy[/link], [link=http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=HoverLow+Pro+Bro&aq=f]HoverLow[/link]. You can learn a lot from their style.

ES CONTROL

Thanks for all the help . I will keep on trying.

rrbassin

To save time and money get a cheap 6mm depron foamy 400 size Charger RC CR-1 something that won't chop you in half if you hit yourself...and just practice away....A plane that small can be used in tha smallest of places...And watch the other 3d plane videos that are circulating is basically how I'M LEARNING...I started about years ago and can belly in hover it took a while though heres a link to my youtube page:http://www.youtube.com/user/rrbassin

DeuceTrinal

If you like mnemonics, one I've heard a lot for this is that when the plane is belly towards you, the rudder stick goes towards the low wing.

I'm still working on it myself, the hardest part for me is when the TR gets the plane's wing straight at you, and it gets hard to determine yaw...I lose it there most of the time, by the time I can see the yaw attitude, it's falling out.

relax1

My Feedback: (32)

The key is rudder input to the wing that leans to ground when landing gear face you. To master it practice upside figure eight using rudder only. Practice upside down harriers. The bottom line is to master rudder control this is the key to 3D and great aerobatics.
Good luck!
Luis

ES CONTROL

Its been almost a year since I started this post, and I am slowly getting it!  But I still can not  tork roll more than 2 times , or maintain a rolling harrier.

ThumbSkull

My Feedback: (57)

No large electrics for me in the future of my 3D. I've seen many smoke clouds and a few fires over the last 2 years.
For me, electrics stay under 4 lbs. AUW.

RC-RedBaron

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVVayPKbWI0[/youtube]

mithrandir

My Feedback: (2)

OK... get a DW Foamies 40" Yak 55.... get two of'em... set it up like Mike tells you to....
and get yourself about 8 1320 LiPo three cell batteries and two chargers....

and then practice!

ES CONTROL

As I Wait For a 71" Slick( To save 60.00 Shipping) 3D Hobby Shop to set up in my Back Yard , Lancaster , PA. I set up a Aero Works 40 size Pro260