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Looking into video. Confusing

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Old 01-13-2004, 11:50 PM
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Re-Builder
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Default Looking into video. Confusing

First of all, let me say that I am new to video. I am looking for information on what is needed like a Ham lic.? Are there video systems you can put on your plane and fly around without all the troubles of getting a lic. to operate it?

RB
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Old 01-14-2004, 08:26 PM
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Fubar-One
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Default RE: Looking into video. Confusing

Welcome to the forum!
As far as video systems, the Hong Kong systems mainly operate on 1.2ghz but at a frequency that is lower than the actual Ham band. They are pretty much illegal to operate in the US regardless of license or not. I didnt know this when I first got one and began telling everyone about it. Some of those Hong Kong systems work pretty well, some are crap. The ones that claim to operate at 800mw of power generally are ok as far as operation but its up to you whether you would run one or not due to the frequency legalities. I doubt the Black Helicopters would start circling overhead when you fired that baby up but...
The better systems available (check out BlackwidowAV.com) operate on 2.4ghz and two of the 4 freqs that are setup on these systems are Ham license legal. These cost more than the Hong Kong systems but definitely work better. Worth the money. His systems use a CCD camera which is a much better camera than the CMOS cams that come with the Hong Kong systems.
Getting a Ham license is very easy these days and one added bonus (BIG bonus!) is the ability to operate your RC planes on 50mhz. Granted, the equipment available on 50mhz is limited compared to 72mhz but I have yet to run into frequency conflicts at any field I have flown at.

Back to the video stuff.
To give you an idea of my experience with wireless video, I bought 2 of the "All In One" camera/tx units. Then bought a couple of the 800mw systems. Had pretty good luck with those. I also bought a 900mhz system from Supercircuits at a cost of nearly $400. Great camera, not the results I was hoping for with the video system.
I have since purchased one of the 200mw 5volt systems that BlackwidowAV sells but havent had a chance to field test it yet. I have high hopes for this one.
If you have broadband or DSL, you can check out the [link=http://fubar1.freeservers.com/rc/movies/movies.html]videos[/link] on my [link=http://fubar1.freeservers.com/RC/********.html]website[/link] featuring those various systems in action.
Also, read thru the many postings on this forum to see what the other guys have been using and what luck they have had.
If you are really interested in Aerial Video, I would get a Ham license.
ORIGINAL: Re-Builder

First of all, let me say that I am new to video. I am looking for information on what is needed like a Ham lic.? Are there video systems you can put on your plane and fly around without all the troubles of getting a lic. to operate it?

RB
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Old 02-03-2004, 02:46 AM
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Default RE: Looking into video. Confusing

Try www.polarisusa.com for some video systems to consider. I get good results with their stock metal clad tx and
I got 2 of their MB-1850U 2/3rd inch CCD cams. I am quite pleased with the 470 lines of resolution and the color handling of this cam- altho they are more larger and more fragile than the smaller CMOS units. The shape also makes it more difficult to mount in any streamlined fashion - so I built mine into the nose of the Wingo Porter peeking out the front for the pilots pov.

My downlink is mounted in a backpack and has a flat plate directional antenna which will give you the best possible reception- but you must point it at the plane at all times. The best way I've found to do that is to mount the rx and gear in a backpack and face the plane as it flies. The antenna is mounted to a pullout luggage handle on the backpack and propped up with a carbon rod with velcro at the ends to secure it. I'll upload a picture of this system.

I do video for a living and the CMOS cams just dont cut it for me. I wanted something with S-Video level quality, and I am happy with the results I am getting with these. I had one of the black plastic rx units and it quickly went belly-up almost from the start. The metal rx units are much better and have 2 video outputs so you can feed a camcorder and also a monitor. I am using the Cy-Visor Head Mounted Display and I am agog at the experience of going RPV!

If you are going to be flying at 5,000 ft then by all means get that Ham license- the Amateur Band stuff is faboo performing- but for avg flying the Polaris metal TX units work fine and there are no license needs. I power my vid unit with the main 11 Volt lithium poly battery pack that powers the motors and r/c. I expected noise from it with the ESC in operation but was pleasantly surprised it was not the case. Good luck-and "choose wisely", said the knight...
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Old 02-03-2004, 07:50 AM
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Default RE: Looking into video. Confusing

That is a very nice CLEAN shot. Is that just a still or did you grab a frame from a video? If it's a still... wow... If it's a frame grab... WWWOOOWWW!!!!

I have a nagging feeling that my G-62 is going to wreak havoc on my vid system (when I get one). Electrics seem to really be the way to go when doing aerial photography but I just can't do it! I NEED POWER!!! UGGH UGHH UGHH [>:]
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Old 02-03-2004, 11:24 AM
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Default RE: Looking into video. Confusing

What do you have attached to that engine? An SUV??? That's Power!!!

The key to video success with glow power is to isolate the transmitter from the vibrations. Pack it in foam and add one tie wrap a little too tight and BAM... big time interference. Isolating the problem can be a real pain in the RRss. Easy way to determine if vibs are causing the problem is to securely mount the plane on a table, apply WOT, watch the video and then simply put your finger on the transmitter. If vibs are a problem they will nearly disappear when you dampen out the vibs with your finger. It's amazing how sensitive the interference can be. Just the lightest touch can cause the vibs to be gone. The amps in the TXer can pick up minute changes...

I built a slede for the transmitter to sit in. Only foam contacted the transmitter and it was a very loose fit. I used shipping tape to surround the transmitter so it couldn't fly out. Remember, only allow the foam to lightly hold the transmitter in place. No tape, no tie wraps, nothing can touch the transmitter. Also, any wires should be allowed to swing free. If you securely attach them, the vibs will be transferred into the transmitter. And, if at all possible... run the wires in a right angle direction from the direction of the vibs. Granted, it's hard to tell which way things are moving, but if right left don't work... try front to back. One or the other will substantially dampen the vibs.

The key is to NOT secure the transmitter etc... tightly. Such mounting will destroy your picture.

Good Luck... Looking forward to seeing what that big bird will dooooo!!!!!!

Rob
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Old 02-03-2004, 11:27 AM
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Default RE: Looking into video. Confusing

It's a framegrab off the video I digitized into the com. See why I go for the high end cameras? No CMOS cam will ever match that kind of image. It was recorded off the mw downlink rx with a Digital 8 camcorder then digitized to my ATI All In Wonder video card (with tv in/out connections) in MPEG1.

It's a quandry that hauling more stuff requires more power. That G-62 will get it up there but the vibes might destroy the cam! Certainly with the motor running the video will be terribly blurred. Electric has vibration also - just not nearly as much. I taped a CMOS cam to the wingtip of my buddy's gas plane and he took it up and wrung it out. Its kinda rough- till the motor quit and then I got a nice landing sequence.

I say find another way. The Sukhoi SU-35 looks like a nice PSS to put a cam in and stuff a coupla rockets in its tailfeathers and send it wayyy up there in a hurry! No vibes, no heavy airborne batteries or motor weight. Zoom up and... loaf...
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Old 02-03-2004, 05:06 PM
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Default RE: Looking into video. Confusing

Well here is my master plan. I laid a block of eggcrate foam in the bottom of my fuse. It is 10 X 5 inches. That should be enough room to fit my electronics in. I will lay another foam block on top. The main wing will kind of sandwich them when bolted down to hold everything in place. The trick will be to correctly trim some depressions in the foam so that things are held in place but not "smushed" place. Shouldn't be too difficult. I think I will have enough room for two battery packs, my rx, and a video tx. It's also about 15 inches back from the firewall. That should help some. Anyway, here is a pic of my SUV in progress and the electronics bay.
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Old 02-03-2004, 07:36 PM
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Default RE: Looking into video. Confusing

Nice looking plane Aaron, it Looks like it's almost done!
Soft mount (with air circulation) the video TX but build a very hard mount for the camera and bolt it to the plane for the first try. The top of the tail gives a nice view for aerobatics.
Play with pan or tilt later, any looseness in the camera mount will increase the shake.
I think you will be happy with the results, the motor shouldn’t be a big problem you have a lot of airplane behind it.


Looks like it's almost done, time to get a video system mounted!
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Old 02-03-2004, 08:44 PM
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Default RE: Looking into video. Confusing

I can attest to the vibration interference. I re mounted my BWAV tx so it is held into the housing with foam and can free float. Now if the weather would just cooperate so I can test it.
ORIGINAL: Rj-TailSpin

What do you have attached to that engine? An SUV??? That's Power!!!

The key to video success with glow power is to isolate the transmitter from the vibrations. Pack it in foam and add one tie wrap a little too tight and BAM... big time interference. Isolating the problem can be a real pain in the RRss. Easy way to determine if vibs are causing the problem is to securely mount the plane on a table, apply WOT, watch the video and then simply put your finger on the transmitter. If vibs are a problem they will nearly disappear when you dampen out the vibs with your finger. It's amazing how sensitive the interference can be. Just the lightest touch can cause the vibs to be gone. The amps in the TXer can pick up minute changes...

I built a slede for the transmitter to sit in. Only foam contacted the transmitter and it was a very loose fit. I used shipping tape to surround the transmitter so it couldn't fly out. Remember, only allow the foam to lightly hold the transmitter in place. No tape, no tie wraps, nothing can touch the transmitter. Also, any wires should be allowed to swing free. If you securely attach them, the vibs will be transferred into the transmitter. And, if at all possible... run the wires in a right angle direction from the direction of the vibs. Granted, it's hard to tell which way things are moving, but if right left don't work... try front to back. One or the other will substantially dampen the vibs.

The key is to NOT secure the transmitter etc... tightly. Such mounting will destroy your picture.

Good Luck... Looking forward to seeing what that big bird will dooooo!!!!!!

Rob
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Old 02-04-2004, 01:00 AM
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Default RE: Looking into video. Confusing

One area of vibration that most folks probably don't think to address is the pot's inside the tx.

Inside the bwav units you will find a large black pot that controls the audio channel. This pot is a screw in ferrite type and sometimes has a little play in it. A dab of Goop, ATV or silicon between the core and the body will stabilize it nicely.

Bill
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Old 02-04-2004, 09:13 AM
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Default RE: Looking into video. Confusing

Yes, I like a product called E6000. It works great to secure things, doesn't harm electronics, and it can be removed easily. It is like silicon, but stronger. Just don't inhale it.

Rob
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Old 02-04-2004, 08:45 PM
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Default RE: Looking into video. Confusing

Hmmm...
I will check into that. Thanks!
ORIGINAL: yb2normal

One area of vibration that most folks probably don't think to address is the pot's inside the tx.

Inside the bwav units you will find a large black pot that controls the audio channel. This pot is a screw in ferrite type and sometimes has a little play in it. A dab of Goop, ATV or silicon between the core and the body will stabilize it nicely.

Bill
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Old 02-05-2004, 05:30 PM
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Default RE: Looking into video. Confusing

I try to pop open every bare tx I sell and lock that pot down myself, so hopefully you find some clear or black stuff on it.

Bill
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Old 02-05-2004, 09:43 PM
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Default RE: Looking into video. Confusing

I will try it first the way I have it set up now, isolated in the housing by foam rubber. If that doesnt work I will open it up and go from there. I also added foam rubber to the "sled" where it contacts the wing.
This is all mainly for shooting video with my Ultra Stick 60 for the wild gyration stuff. I have a Wingo on the way for a dedicated electric video platform.
I will most likely be sending you some more money in the next couple of months for a second camera and tx to use for slope soaring video. With a second system I can set it up differently with the camera mounted in an EPP pod separately from the tx.
Now that I know your systems work well I can concentrate on shooting actual video and less on getting stuff to work!
ORIGINAL: yb2normal

I try to pop open every bare tx I sell and lock that pot down myself, so hopefully you find some clear or black stuff on it.

Bill
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Old 02-05-2004, 10:05 PM
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Default RE: Looking into video. Confusing

Dan, I can definitely relate. Im not changing anything on the LT-40!! Its working
and Im happy!!!

Youll like the wingo!

And thanks again Bill, Id hate to think whered we be without you!
Id probably be gutting another Wavecom jr!
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