critterhunter

Hi all, I'm very new to the RC universe having just bought an Aerobird Challenger a few weeks back. I'm fairly good with the plane now even in expert mode, and decided I just had to have a live mini cam for it. I have a 800mw color camera in route that should get here in a week or so. In the meantime, I need to prepare this plane for flight with the camera. So, I'm hoping some of you can help a newbie get his feet (wings) wet with this project...

Mounting The Camera: What is the maximum weight you would suggest carrying with a Challenger? I'd prefer to mount the camera in a safe place while keeping the COG proper. How do I determine the COG of the plane exactly in stock form? The camera comes with a seperate credit card type transmitter. If it and the camera weigh about the same could I mount one under the left wing and the other under the right, very close to the body of the plane for protection? I need ideas, but if under the plane is best then I'll have to (?) put the wheels on the plane to avoid belly landings on the camera.

Camera/Transmitter Power Source: I have three options here. I believe the camera runs on 8 to 12v. The easiest way would be to use a 9v battery. However, this adds weight and I hear a lot of the signal drift people get is due to the low amp 9v battery use. That being said, if I power it via the plane battery I have two routes to try...using the X-Port connector or splicing a second power plug to the controller power line. The X-Port connection would be the cleaner, but provides two concerns. Does the power pins off the X-Port pass straight from the battery to the pinout or is it going through electronics on the plane which may overload the controller OR cause more interference? Does anybody know what this plug is called and where I can get the four pin plug for that port (prefer on foot) (Radio Shack, electronics store, etc?) or a web page. The other option is adding a plug to the controller's power plug. Does anybody know where (again, on foot) I can buy this plug, or at least suggest a web outlet? Or, would I be better off using an aftermarket plug style and converting all my packs and charger to that type (Is Dean's the best and most popular out there?)?

Noise Reduction: I'm concerned about possible noise interefernce from the plane. Where can I get a small device to eleminate noise (Radio Shack, web, etc) and how do I hitch it up?

Power Packs: I currently have 7.2v and 8.4v 900 packs. Since (I think) this camera needs at least 8v, are there any packs out there in the 9v range that the plane can also use? Or, my second option is a 8.4v pack with a higher amp rating. Suggestions on where to get one as I think there is a 1100ma 8.4v out there somewhere? I would assume this is a 7 cell pack but will an 8 (if it is) work with my stock charger? Need to buy the plane more fly time if the cam is feeding off the same battery. Again, connector type concerns or what to switch to?

Replacing the RCA plugs on the camera with something other for weight and bulk conerns: I know how to solder. Any ideas or types of plugs at Radio Shack to look for?

Upgrading the CMOS cam to CCD: I see many people doing this. Is it a simple plug and play procedure and where can I get a good cheap CCD that has better video quality if I decide to upgrade the CMOS?

I know these are a lot of questions but I'm new at all this and need guidance. Thanks in advance!

Troglotech

Hello Critterhunter, I have a video camera fitted to both my Aerobird Extreme and my Commander, I have just bought the Challenger and will be using the same setup on that too. I use the X-port for the power, as far as I know this is connected directly to the battery (pins 1 and 4). The connector (in England at least) is a 'K' series 0.1" Molex. I use a Traco DC to DC converter for the camera, this is available in the States as well. The converter takes an input between 4.5V and 9V and converts it to a regulated 5V. If you require 12V then the part number is TMR0512. The converter gets rid of any noise (completely noise free picture) and allows the camera and TX to operate from a fully charged battery to a near flat one. It is much easier using the X-port for power, I started off cutting into the power wires within the aircraft but using the Molex connector is much more acceptable.

I have mounted the camera on a small bracket and have used Velcro for the mounting, this has a few benifits, firstly you can move the camera from one 'plane to other, fly without it fitted and you can experiment with the best camera angle (about 45 Degrees to the vertical gives great pictures). You CAN fit TX and camera on opposite sides but mine is all on one side, I used the RHS as the motor torque was to throw the 'plane left on launching and this helps counteract those tendecies.

You mention removing the RCA plugs to reduce camera weight and the fact that the camera runs from 8V, this sounds very like the type that was sold on Ebay, be careful these cameras have a regulator within the connector, the camera itself requires 5V. Once the connector is removed there will be three wires: Black=0V, Red=5V, White=not connected.

Feel free to ask any more questions....Tim....

critterhunter

Great info, thanks! I'll have other questions for you in a day or so but right now I'm pressed for time. The only thing that comes to mind right now is...Can you be more specific about the 5v regulator that might be in this camera's power plug? Can I simply use this regulator instead of buying another while still getting the benefits you mentioned with the other (noise reduction, wider battery performance, etc)? Also, what is the "X-Port" connector used for in other applications. In other words, might I be able to find this connector at Radio Shack, a computer store, etc? More questions on the way but thanks for now...

PS- Funny you should mention the tendency of the plane to pull left when launched. I've always had to give it a tweak to the right to keep it from hooking hard left on hand launch. Couldn't figure it out as the plane was trimmed well otherwise. Never considered the motor's torque. Will take this into account when figuring out a mounting place. Thanks for the picture too.

Troglotech

Hello again, I cannot tell you how widely used the Molex connector is in the US, I don't live there! However, the Molex 'K' series is widely copied and used in all sorts of things. The exact part number (and shown as a US standard product) is 22-01-3047, I will try and attach the data sheet to this message. Somewhere on this Forum are more details on dissecting the camera, shown is the regulator chopped out of the connector. The regulator is a linear device and will get hot when working at higher voltages. I would have thought that is good for an input of 7V-8V and no more because of the low voltage drop-out and dissapating heat (it is very small and the energy has to go somewhere). A switched-mode DC to DC converter, on the other hand, is much more efficient, runs from wider voltages and lighter than the connector pair used on these small cameras.

It may well be worth keeping the connectors fitted to the camera, I have read of people flying the full kit, complete with a 9V battery on nothing bigger than the Commander, however, I prefer to keep the weight down and those 9V batteries only last 2 hours or so.

Just tried and cannot download data sheet....here are a couple of screen shots of it instead....Tim....

Troglotech

Just found the article on the camera I was talking about....

http://www.rc-cam.com/hk_video.htm

However, this is for the 1.2GHz system which, as they rightly say, is awful. The 2.4GHz ones are quite good, the range is excellent, and the quality is quite acceptable. Not as good as from a Panasonic KX 121 (which, by the way, is now obsolete along with the complete range of micro cameras from Panasonic), but still pretty good.....Tim.....

randall1959

My Feedback: (11)

Get the 12 volt converter critterhunter. You got the same camera I did, and since my plane is gas, I connected it directly to a 9.6 volt battery pack and didn't use the connector that came with the camera. I used another cord I had lying around.

critterhunter

Thanks again all, this thing is starting to come together. Picked up a 8.4v 1100ma Venom battery pack for the plane, which is about the max V and amp battery size this plane will handle I think. Should increase my load time a few minutes with the cam and plane feeding off it.

Still can't find that stinking X-Port connector anywhere. Called Hobbyzone for a part #. In so many words he told me it's a trademarked part and they won't sell me the part or give me a model number. Called a few local electronic part stores with the "Molex" discription you gave me in the initial message but nobody could source it. Maybe I'll have better luck with the data on it you just gave me. I'll make a round of calls again. On the RC-CAM forum he has an X-Port project using a still camera and says he has a plug part # that will fit the X-Port like a glove. Great, only problem is that the only computer I have access to right now won't allow me to open or download his parts list. Can anybody take a peak at that and give me the part # and any other data he might have posted on where to find it? Need to nail down this plug soon or I'll have a camera with no plug to power it.

randall1959

My Feedback: (11)

Since that's a charge port, does your charger have one? I'd get a second charger and cut the lead off it. Yea it's kinda high for a connector but it beats making yourself blind staring at the computer screen trying to find one........haha

Troglotech

Digi-Key do them, and the crimps:

http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSea...?KeywordSearch

Keyword is the part number I gave you (22-01-3047)....Tim...

Troglotech

...and just to confuse you, here is a capture of the Bill Of Materials you mentioned in the X-Port project:

critterhunter

Randall, nope...the X-Port is a different plug meant for modules (4 pin). The power plug the battery hitches up to is a two pin different style plug. I already have extra battery plugs for it but want to avoid cutting into the main board battery lead, plus then I'd have to route that outside the plane to the cam. The X-Port is located on the right side of the plane under the wing, which makes it perfect for camera location.

Anyway, I've found a solution for all those in search of an X-Port connector. Went up to Radio Shack and picked up an 8 pin IC socket. I cut (grinded) off one side (set of four pins) and this little bugger snaps in nice and snug to the X-Port upside down. In other words, take you're new half of the IC (4 pins) and flip it upside down, so that the pin holes on the IC that normaly held a chip's legs are plugged into the 4 pins on the X-Port. I then soldered a positive and negative wire to the outside (1 and 4) pin legs on the IC (that normaly would have been soldered to a circuit board). The X-Port has a plastic plug "guard" at the top of it and so I left some of the middle plastic on the IC socket. This prevents you from plugging in the IC backwards in the field as the plastic I left on it (the IC now looks like a shallow "U" from above) will be in the way of the plug guard at the top of the X-Port, so you can only plug it in one way. After soldering the positive and negative wires to the IC legs I snipped of pins 2 and 3 to avoid shorts, and put some goop glue over all that for further safety. This also holds the two wires to the plastic on the IC to take the stress off the solder points when plugging in the connector. My only concern is that those IC legs are tiny, and I wonder if the current draw of the camera and transmitter will cause that connection to overheat?

While I was at Radio Shack I also picked up the only suitable voltage regulator I could find. It's a DC to DC with a max input voltage of 32V and a constant 5V output. It has a nice heat sink at the top. Still not sure if the camera needs 5V until I get it in the mail but if it does should this voltage regulator be suitable? Also, if the transmitter (seperate from camera) can handle a higher voltage (I think it may be 8 or so) should I power the camera with the 5v regulator and feed the trasnmitter straight battery juice from my 8.4v pack?

critterhunter

Troglotech, thanks for posting the port info. Think I'll call DigiKey to order it...but wonder why RC-Cam lists a different part # than yours? Also, does the part # you listed already have the pins in the socket?

Troglotech

No problem.....And no, crimps are separate items, they will need to be ordered as well (cheap as muck though), should be some sort of cross reference on the Digi-Key site.....or even easier..phone them. As you will not have the crimp tool make sure you squash the crimp on as well as possible using pliers (or something similar), and then solder the wire in as well. Let us know when your camera turns up and how you get on......Tim....

EDIT: There are loads of sockets that will quite possibly fit, as you found out already, it is a 0.1" spaced design and there are loads of them out there. However, the socket looks just like a Molex/Walden one to me (my company uses loads of them) so there will be many alternative manufacturers who will offer something that will fit....I gaurantee that the part number I gave you is correct....

critterhunter

Well, just to hedge my bets I called DigiKey and ordered the part # you gave with crimp pins and the parts that RC-CAM listed for his plug. Better to have a few different styles laying around anyway, as I might build his still digital camera interface for it, or have to build a live mini cam like mine for a friend or two who also fly challengers. Any input on the voltage regulator I picked up? It's sort'a big...about the length of a stick of gum, but doesn't weigh much. Just wondering if using such a high rated regulator (up to 32V for a 5V output) will have drawbacks (?). Also, it has three pins on it...input, output, and ground...but I see in the diagram for it that the heat sink on top is also marked as a ground. I would guess that the negative wire from both the input and output voltage would just go to the single ground pin (3 pins...input,ground,output) and not onto the heat sink in some manner?

Troglotech...meant to ask you...when you mounted the camera on the right side of your challenger did you have to trim out the plane any different? Like I said, mine flies fine but at hand lauch it tends to pull left (as per your remark about motor torque), so if I mount the camera on the right side near the X-Port do you think I'll need to trim the plane out any...and via hands on with the tail or just by adjusting the trim sliders on the controller? By the way, can you list me some specs on the camera you are using (wattage, frequency, seperate transmitter?)? A little hard to tell via the picture you posted.

Troglotech

Sounds to me like you picked up a linear regulator, probably an LM7805 or equivalent. Power from the X-Port to pin 1(+) and pin 2(-), 5V to camera pin 3(+) and pin 2(-), usually requires 470n on both output and input to be stable. The heatsink is connected to pin 2(-). I could be completely mistaken and you might have a switcher.......

I have one of those cheap ebay systems, 2.4GHz, CMOS sensor (made by Omnivision [www.ovt.com]), possibly 200mW, TRX built into the camera, pin-hole lens. Suprisingly good reception, only get drop-outs when directly over the aerial. I use a Sony Hi 8 recorder and no monitor so it's always a suprise to see what I have on the tape when I get home!

The whole system is so light and right near the centre of gravity that it seems to make no difference at all, it weighs less than the 7th cell in the 'aerobatic' battery packs. I started out with the camera in the nose of the Commander, I cut a hole in the polystyrene block in front of the battery and glued the camera in there, made a hole in the fuse and off we went. Well, off we went until a hard landing gave the first camera a good stuffing. Since then I've mounted the camera and power converter (as shown in an earlier post) to some stiff plastic (with ca) and used sticky-back Velcro to mount it on the fuse. As it is light and close the cog it hardly notices it....Tim....

critterhunter

Yep, that's what my voltage regulator looks like...although I made a mistake. It's about HALF the length of a stick of gum. Now, I know this will produce a stable 5v output which should help to eliminate signal drift but will it also help to filter out signal noise? I see some mention of some guys with challengers using noise filters or even a diode across the motor terminals to cancel out noise. Wish someobody would post some info on what parts to buy and how to wire them to help kill any potential noise problems.

I'm hoping the camera comes today. I've been thinking about various mounting positions and pros and cons. The first and most logical choice would be under the belly right where the X-Modules mount (if it's good enough for Hobbyzone then my camera shouldn't cause problems there with flight...if the weight is near the same). However, this would require me installing the landing gear (more weight) and I am landing on a grass field that would flip the plane with landing gear on. My next choice would have been on top of the plane somewhat between the wing and the canopy. This would cause less drag left or right on the plane but then the camera wouldn't have a good downward view (?), and I want to avoid too much skyline as per the problems discussed about cmos cameras. Not to mention the potential damage if the nose sticks on landing and the plane flips onto it's back. So, this leaves the option of mounting it on the body tucked up and very near the bottom of the wing. In this position the camera would be safest, and I could mount the transmitter on the other side of the plane in the same position for balance...adding weight to either side to make cam and TX evenly weighted for perfect balance. This also would lend it's self to the X-Port as the camera would be right above it under the wing to keep the wires as short as possible. The only possible problem with this setup and I would think the bulk of the camera (and to a much lessor extent the TX) would catch the air more than it would above the wing or under the body, causing more drag on the plane. Ideas, input, etc? I do plan to use velcro as my attachment wherever I plane to mount these things.

PS- Once the system is up and running I plan to do some static run tests with my three batteries...7.2v and 8.4v 900ma and 8.4v 1100ma. I'll base the data on A) How long the plane with camera runs at full throttle until voltage drop safety shutoff B) How long the plane will run at half throttle once the safety full throttle cutoff occurs C) How long the plane will run with a full battery at half throttle D) Same criteria as above but with no camera on the plane to compare differences in flight time. I'll post the results when done.

Troglotech

I personally wouldn't fiddle with the ESC or motor terminals to reduce noise, it's a good way to a) waste energy b) frizzle the output device. The device you have bought WILL reduce noise, they are pretty good at isolating input noise (although DC to DC converters are much more efficient). The biggest downside is that the linear regulator (unless it is an LDO type [Low Drop Out]), will only regulate a 5V output when the input is greater than 7V (the regulator drops 2V internally before it starts regulating). This doesn't sound too much of a problem as a 7.2V battery has a terminal voltage of around 8V or so when fully charged, unfortunately the noise on the input will generally pulse lower than 7V and this is quite likely to get through although it would certainly be less than connecting the X-Port directly. To reduce the amount of noise fit a 100uF capacitor across the output (+ to pin 3, - to pin 2), the capacitor will need to be electrolytic and rated at 6V or greater, you should be able to get these at Radioshack.

Tell me the number written on the regulator and I will tell you what the drop-out voltage is......Tim....

W4UAV

Hey Troglotech, Blackwidow AV still has the Panasonic KX-121,
http://www.blackwidowav.com/productcameras.html
Just FYI, its a great little camera!

Troglotech

Yes, the complete range of board cameras from Panasonic were great, my company have used literally hundereds of them, starting with the GP CX161 and ending with the GP KX121, there finished now unfortunately:

http://rock2000.com/Company/Panasoni..._Panasonic.pdf

However, there will be a few around for a while so snap them up while they still are in stock, the KX121 is a much better camera than the CX161 by the way, better sensitivity and less noise. A good replacement for these types are from Videology, same form factor and mounting pattern, slightly noisier but great sensitivity:

http://www.videologyinc.com/industri...ccb_20K14X.htm


Tim.....

critterhunter

Troglotech, here's the data on the voltage regulator I picked up: Radio Shack Part #276-1770. 7805 +5VDC. 1AMP. Features: Internal thermal overload protection, Stable fixed output voltage, Up to 1.0 amp output current, Output transistor safe area protection, Internal short-circuit current limit, Absolute max input voltage 35V, Max junction temp. 150 degree C. If this thing good enough or would a "DC to DC" regulator like yours be more efficient, etc?

Today I picked up a 175W power invertor so I can power a 9" TV/VCR console. It's rated at 65W power draw so I'm sure the invertor can handle it. Plan to hitch the receiver up to and mount the reciever on top of a 7 foot plastic PVC pipe in the field. Itching to get this camera so I hope it comes today. I'll do some tests with it at first to make sure all is OK before I cut the RCA and power plugs off the camera/transmitter and simply solder them together to keep weight down.

Troglotech

The 7805 is the one that I have already described, it is not an LDO type and requires 7V or more to regulate. Still, you might not need it yet! Wait until you get the RC stuff and we can go through what you need then....Tim....

critterhunter

Got the camera yesterday and gave it a test flight with mix results. Here's an update:

First thing I did was cut off all that RCA plug crap to make the unit lighter. I then hitched a 9V to the old harness to see if the camera or TX were getting a lower voltage due to some hidden regulator. Both were being fed straight battery voltage...so unless the camera it's self has a voltage regulator inside it I don't think this is a 5v camera. What little instructions came with it states the the camera/TX require 8 volts (might be 8 to 12v but I'm pretty sure it just says 8v). The RX is rated at 12v (might be 9 to 12v...can't remember). Anyway, so I didn't have to worry about a voltage regulator...or so I thought. Read on...

Soldered it all together and used an X-Port connector to power it. I also cut off the RX 9v head so I could hitch up some wires with aligator clips for hitching to a car battery. Used velcro to mount the camera above the X-port and the TX on the other side of the plane in the same general location for "balance". The battery in the plane was a 8.4v 1100ma (reads more like 9 to 10v at full charge).I was using a car battery to power the RX at 12v and also had a 125W power invertor hitched up to it to power an AC 9" TV/VCR console.

The RX has a tuning knob on it and the picture (with the plane off and in my hand) would go to static as soon as I got more than 10 feet from the RX. Hmmmm...messed around with the tuning knob and discovered that what you think is the actual frequency isn't, there are two or three places on the knob that produce a picture...only one was the "real" one. With the RX properly tuned I could get very far away and not see any signal loss. Great, time for a test flight...

My first two hand launches were instant crashes with the plane rolling over and diving in. I think this was more due to the fact that I didn't launch into the wind (kept changing directions) than the camera weight. On my third attempt I managed to get the plane up in the air. It didn't climb very well and wanted to dip it's nose or roll if I didn't constantly control it at full throttle. After a few minutes I managed to get it high enough to cut the throttle off for a few secs. I'm going to have to mount the camera and TX either further back on the body or somewhere else to get it to handle better, although I could control it with constant attention.

Landed the plane and checked my video recording to see what I got. The video was total static (although I could hear the plane motor on the audio) except for the few seconds I shut the motor off and it appeared to clear up nicely. So, it appears to motor is wrecking any video with interference. Now, I didn't put the voltage regulator on the plane because it looks like the power requirements of the camera and TX are right in line with my flight battery. Now for the questions. Do you think a voltage regulator will clear up the picture with the motor on? If so, what kind of regulator should I buy and where at? I'm assuming I need an 8V output DC to DC regulator? If so, what is the lowest voltage the regulator will still produce 8V at...as I would be the battery drops down to the 5 to 7 volt range after a few minutes (even though it starts at a 9 or 10V full charge). Are there any other options I should consider to cancel engine noise, or should I first start with the regulator and go from there?

The only positive note on this first test flight is I had the plane up there for a good 5 or 6 minutes and when I landed it still had a strong battery. I'm expecting the current draw of this camera/TX is so low it will only shorten flight times by a minute or so, if that.

Troglotech

I'll give a full reply later but.....you've just chopped off the regulator!

Troglotech

Does your camera look like the one in the picture that is enclosed? If it does then the regulator WAS in the connector. If the camera is NOT the same then we need to look for another cause.....

I'll start with what I do know, just in case your camera is the same as the one in the picture (from microcameras.com). These cameras come with a fitted in-line connector, the connector contains a 5V regulator. If you chop the connector off you will see three wires coming out of the connector: Black=0V, Red=5V (produced by the regulator), White=8V or whatever voltage was input, this wire is connected to the centre prong. The Black wire is connected to the outer shell. In MY camera (2.4Ghz) the white wire was not connected internally to the camera, the Red and the Black wires were connected and are used to supply 5V. I didn't know this at the time of my first installation so I connected the Red and Black directly to the Commanders battery. The results on the video that I made on the maiden flight was mainly over-exposed and very noisy whenever the throttle was used....just like you I had a few seconds of good video whenever I turned the throttle off and pointed away from the sun (sounds quite familiar so far)!

That camera was eventually damaged during a vertical landing. I bought another camera seperately. I was confused about the wiring the first time, as the White wire buzzed out to the centre pin. To make sure I didn't pull the White wire out I tie-wrapped the cable before snipping off the connecter. It was at this point (after sticking volts up the connector) that I realised there was a regulator built in (after designing an 8V supply which was wasted) and the white wire was not connected to anything. After buying a 5V DC to DC converter I have had no noise or drop-out problems.

Now, you camera cannot be exactly the same as you have a seperate TX module, and it is quite possible that the camera DOES require 8V or so. If this is the case then you will need a regulated supply for both the TX and camera that can run from a variable supply of around 5V to 10V. For that you are going to need a switching DC to DC converter....I'll have a look in the Digi-key catalogue and see if they have anything suitable........

Well, Digi-key don't sell anything suitable but Newark does:

http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebComme...KU=95B9527&N=0

It looks like the closest match is the NDY0512, this has a nominal 5V input (4.5V to 9V, 10V absolute maximum) and gives a 12V output at around 200mA, $17 or so. Connect the input directly to the X-Port and the output to your TX and camera and that should do it.....Tim

P.S. I have heard of cheaper ways to do this, but would not bother myself due to the low cost of the DC to DC converters. What you can do is connect the TX and camera to the X-Port via a 1A diode on the +ve line, then connect a big capacitor (possibly 220uF @ 16V) across the TX and cameras +ve and -ve supply. This allows the capacitor to supply the energy during the 'noisy' bits where the ESC switches the motor on and then allows the capacitor to be recharged when the ESC turns the motor off (all at high frequency). It's worth a go as the capacitors are really cheap and so are the diodes. The capacitor will have to be an electrolytic. Capacitor:

http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebComme...KU=92N5498&N=0

Diode:

http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebComme...KU=18C8972&N=0

Tim......

critterhunter

Thanks for the quick response. I'm off to work right now so I don't have the time to double check my wiring at this time. The wiring to the cam I believe had four wires...red (+), black (-), yellow (video), and white (audio...yes, this camera came with a microphone although it wasn't supposed to). Anyway, What I did was cut the wires just before they enetered the camera and did the same on the TX end. I then hitched a 9v up to the cut off RCA harness crap and put a volt meter onto what I thought were the power supply wires (red and black) right where I cut them before they would have entered the camera...it read 9v. Same with the TX end. I did it this way to make sure I wasn't bypassing any voltage regulator that might have been somewhere in the RCA tangle before it reached the camera or tx. So, unless I'm missing something like the supposed audio wire being used to power it I should be right. You've been more than helpful and thanks for the voltage regulator info...would respond back later when time allows. I'll also double check the old harness to make sure I'm not missing something. Thanks again!