Notices
Aerial Photography and Video Discuss the growing field of aerial photography and aerial video right here!

Good cam for Zagi? (any of these?)

Old 03-08-2007, 01:22 PM
  #1  
markm75
Thread Starter
 
markm75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Good cam for Zagi? (any of these?)

I'm kinda new to the cam idea.. Curious if anyone has any tips or models of cams (transmitter/receiver) to recommend for a Zagi (I'm using the heavier battery setup with mine)..

Here are some cams I found.. not sure which one is best though..

http://www.boostervision.com/cart/s...sp?idproduct=86 $124 1000-1200 feet (BV-GHG)

http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Are...roduct&ID=83162 $83.45 83162 Wireless Micro-Camera WITH SOUND 1000 foot range

http://www.reallycooltoys.com/toys/i4info.html $300 Eyecam wireless video system 1000 foot range



Originally I was going to go with the first one, but now I'm thinking maybe even the second would do just fine.. not sure how I would mount it though...

Thanks for any tips
Old 03-09-2007, 10:25 AM
  #2  
markm75
Thread Starter
 
markm75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Good cam for Zagi? (any of these?)

Also Curious on this one.. I was envisioning hooking up the receiver to my camcorder and recording the video out in the field..

Do they make any receivers that are DC powered.. or I'm assuming they dont draw that many amps, so I should be able to plug one into an Inverter and the inverter into the DC plug of the car?
Old 03-10-2007, 10:26 PM
  #3  
lupy
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Renton, WA
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Good cam for Zagi? (any of these?)

spend at least a week looking at this forum, and this one:

http://www.rcgroups.com/video-piloting-fpv-rpv-469/

Before buying anything.

Your middle link is dead.

The bottom system will not give you 1000ft, more like 50-75. Also, the cameras on the top and bottom are both cmos sensor cameras, which are not good for flying.

Take a look at what is sold by site sponsors, it's usually pretty good. If you find a system for sale, but don't see someone here or on another forum flying with it, especially if it's under $200, don't buy it. We have spent a long time buying and trying stuff out. There is no magic sub $200 solution. Expect to spend around $350 -$450 by the time you get something working well. If you don't have that much, save your $$ for a while. Buying a cheap system will just delay the day you have the $ for a real system.

Most everyone powers the rx with a battery. Make sure the voltage is right, but most are pretty tolerant.

Best of luck
Old 03-13-2007, 03:58 PM
  #4  
markm75
Thread Starter
 
markm75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Good cam for Zagi? (any of these?)

I spent some time doing more research.. still have some questions despite this:

I've kinda decided that the cams on rangevideo.com are pretty good based on comments:

I was going to go with either the KX-131 http://www.rangevideo.com/131_cased.html or Kx-151 (480 lines resolution) http://www.rangevideo.com/151_cased.html ; They appear to weight 1.16 oz without the battery..

Transmitter wise.. I've decided to give 900mhz a shot: http://www.rangevideo.com/900mhz_100mw.html 900mhz 100mW $54 and matching receiver http://www.rangevideo.com/900mhz_receivers.html 240mA power, 0.9 ghz, channel $65

Most comments say to go for 900mhz. I'm assuming the 100mW will get me at least 1000 feet, which should be plenty for flying a Zagi I'm assuming? (What is the range on not needing a HAM licensing to fly.. up to 1mile or 500 mW?)

Still confused on what type of battery is the lightest for them.. I'm assuming the LiPo's are the lightest.. but which model would be the right one: ie: Something like this http://secure.hobbyzone.com/catalog/.../EFLB1035.html ? (this weighs 5.2oz).. would this same LiPo battery work for the receiver unit as well?

Added up these parts, using the stock antenna come to around $200 bucs plus shipping..

I guess I could go for the lesser quality CMOS Boostervision setup ($124 total) if I just want to throw something together and test it, but I think the extra $100 isnt bad.. if this is the right combination for what I'm doing.

Cheers
Old 03-14-2007, 11:39 PM
  #5  
friedclutch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Good cam for Zagi? (any of these?)

Just a thought..... Must you go wireless? I have a cvs one time use camcorder on my plane. Records 640X480 at 30fps. Video quality is pretty good. Its 30 bucks and with a software hack its use is unlimited. Its stores p to 20 min of flight time. Wieghs in at just over an ounce. Going to post a video that I did with my stryker c soon. I'll post a link.

Robert
Old 03-15-2007, 06:56 PM
  #6  
lupy
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Renton, WA
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Good cam for Zagi? (any of these?)

While I agree that the cvs camcorders have their place, no dropouts, no range issues. It's really a different direction than FPV. Something about flying through the camera, even if it's on a camcorder screen. It's pretty thrilling.

Again, don't bother with cmos, you will still need to buy a real camera. The kx 131 is a great camera, a lot of people who have been flying for a long time use it. 380 lines is not the best around, but the dynamic range, color, backlighting are hard to beat.

900 vs 2.4ghz, it's a though one. There are a lot of discusions on it on various forums. On paper, 900mhz should be better, but the technology is a little older, so the ranges seem about the same. One other thing I have heard is that while there are not as many dropouts with 900mhz, they tend to last longer because of the longer wavelength. Also, it's a good idea to use a circularly polerized RX antenna with whatever frequency you chose. There are models for 2.4 and 900mhz, though the 2.4 are much more common. A circular antenna is usefull because if your tx and rx antennas are turned 90deg to each other, a normal antenna will result in a big reception loss. The circ antenna isn't quite as sensitive as a lineraly polerized one, but there will be fewer dropouts, esp with a tippy plane like a zagi.


Sticking with range video for no particular reason, I would probably go with

http://www.rangevideo.com/500mw.html

http://www.rangevideo.com/rx.html

http://www.rangevideo.com/131_cased.html

http://www.rangevideo.com/patch3.html

The TV and camera are both 5v, the 900mhz 100mw tx is 12v, adding to the complexity. The 500mw tx comes with a v reg which will power your camera too. You will need a two cell 600-800mah lipoly battery for the tx.

You will need a 3 cell pack for the RX, around 1200mah is good.

A note on batteries for AV, don't bother to get 10 or 20c cells, 8c is plenty, they are a lot cheaper, and you won't feel as bad destroying one when you leave everything plugged in over night.

http://www.commonsenserc.com/index.php?cPath=37_35

You also might want to look at a microphone. It seems silly untill you have tried it, but a mic really helps place you in the plane. Also your videos will be much more watchable, at least untill you add in some music.

http://www.supercircuits.com/index.a...OD&ProdID=4123

is used by a lot of people here.

There will probably be some soldering involved if you want to lose the heavy rca jacks. You want a temp controlled soldering iron. Take your time, and be sure you don't smoke something. Most of this stuff is not reverse polarity protected, and 2cells without a voltage regulator will fry a 5v camera or a 5v tx. You can use three prong servo jacks for most of what you are doing, + - and signal. Signal ground is the same as power ground. Make up a harness with the voltage reg from the tx, so that the camera, tx, and mic, all plug into one side separatly, and the battery plugs into the other. That way, you can swap out parts without having to un-solder everything, and it's easier to see that nothing is going to get 7.5volts.

There are some complete kits out there where the seller has done all the soldering for you, but you pay more for it, and your choices are more limited.

http://www.futurehobbies.com/items_d...?id=1&item=119

Is pretty much everything I have listed except the rx antenna, already soldered together.

Best of luck!, be sure to keep the cg a little forward on the zagi, as it's easy to tip stall one of those with a bunch of extra weight.
Ken

PS, anything that will work will require a ham license over about 10mw, a lot of people don't have them, but if you are anywhere there are people, it's a good idea.
Old 03-15-2007, 10:26 PM
  #7  
markm75
Thread Starter
 
markm75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Good cam for Zagi? (any of these?)

ORIGINAL: lupy

While I agree that the cvs camcorders have their place, no dropouts, no range issues. It's really a different direction than FPV. Something about flying through the camera, even if it's on a camcorder screen. It's pretty thrilling.

Again, don't bother with cmos, you will still need to buy a real camera. The kx 131 is a great camera, a lot of people who have been flying for a long time use it. 380 lines is not the best around, but the dynamic range, color, backlighting are hard to beat.

900 vs 2.4ghz, it's a though one. There are a lot of discusions on it on various forums. On paper, 900mhz should be better, but the technology is a little older, so the ranges seem about the same. One other thing I have heard is that while there are not as many dropouts with 900mhz, they tend to last longer because of the longer wavelength. Also, it's a good idea to use a circularly polerized RX antenna with whatever frequency you chose. There are models for 2.4 and 900mhz, though the 2.4 are much more common. A circular antenna is usefull because if your tx and rx antennas are turned 90deg to each other, a normal antenna will result in a big reception loss. The circ antenna isn't quite as sensitive as a lineraly polerized one, but there will be fewer dropouts, esp with a tippy plane like a zagi.


Sticking with range video for no particular reason, I would probably go with

http://www.rangevideo.com/500mw.html

http://www.rangevideo.com/rx.html

http://www.rangevideo.com/131_cased.html

http://www.rangevideo.com/patch3.html

The TV and camera are both 5v, the 900mhz 100mw tx is 12v, adding to the complexity. The 500mw tx comes with a v reg which will power your camera too. You will need a two cell 600-800mah lipoly battery for the tx.

You will need a 3 cell pack for the RX, around 1200mah is good.

A note on batteries for AV, don't bother to get 10 or 20c cells, 8c is plenty, they are a lot cheaper, and you won't feel as bad destroying one when you leave everything plugged in over night.

http://www.commonsenserc.com/index.php?cPath=37_35

You also might want to look at a microphone. It seems silly untill you have tried it, but a mic really helps place you in the plane. Also your videos will be much more watchable, at least untill you add in some music.

http://www.supercircuits.com/index.a...OD&ProdID=4123

is used by a lot of people here.

There will probably be some soldering involved if you want to lose the heavy rca jacks. You want a temp controlled soldering iron. Take your time, and be sure you don't smoke something. Most of this stuff is not reverse polarity protected, and 2cells without a voltage regulator will fry a 5v camera or a 5v tx. You can use three prong servo jacks for most of what you are doing, + - and signal. Signal ground is the same as power ground. Make up a harness with the voltage reg from the tx, so that the camera, tx, and mic, all plug into one side separatly, and the battery plugs into the other. That way, you can swap out parts without having to un-solder everything, and it's easier to see that nothing is going to get 7.5volts.

There are some complete kits out there where the seller has done all the soldering for you, but you pay more for it, and your choices are more limited.

http://www.futurehobbies.com/items_d...?id=1&item=119

Is pretty much everything I have listed except the rx antenna, already soldered together.

Best of luck!, be sure to keep the cg a little forward on the zagi, as it's easy to tip stall one of those with a bunch of extra weight.
Ken

PS, anything that will work will require a ham license over about 10mw, a lot of people don't have them, but if you are anywhere there are people, it's a good idea.
Thanks for the great tips.. I am decent with a sodering iron, but I think that I'd probably opt for that complete kit, as I think the total price is comparible, except that I still need the Lipo battery for the RX (I'm guessing, then, the total would come to the neighborhood of $350 with Rx battery).

I may look around and see if I can find a kit with the slightly better camera though (http://www.rangevideo.com/151_cased.html ) (if its worth it).

I'm still concerned that this 500mw setup maybe too heavy for my Zagi, as the Zagi setup i have now uses the Nicad 1700mah packs (already heavy), unless I convert to Lipo batteries, but that would cost an easy $200, hence my thinking was just buying another slow flyer and throw the camera setup on it (or go with the 100mW transmitter instead, with stock antenna?) Does the 500mw give me alot more than the 1000 feet I was expecting with the 100mw? IE: Would I really need more than 1000 feet as of right now, since I probably couldnt really do Remote Piloting without a stronger transmitter than say my older Futaba 6xa?

EDIT: I guess without the sound .. the total weight with the 800mah lipo tx battery is only about 3.2 oz to add to my existing setup.. I suppose this isnt that heavy after all?


Do these Lipos take a while to charge.. I'm assuming I'll need a Lipo branded charger like this one? http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXHNW5&P=0
I'm assuming that if I do convert to Lipo for my flight receiver battery setup, that a charger like this should charge them (eg. 3200mah 3s2p) in about 1 hour, giving 20 minutes of flight time?

Finally, how involved is it to get a ham license? I thought the general rule on that was distance related, not so much the mW rating? IE: say under 4000 feet, no license needed? Perhaps not though..

Thanks again
Old 03-16-2007, 11:31 AM
  #8  
lupy
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Renton, WA
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Good cam for Zagi? (any of these?)

ham license is strictly a tx power thing, as reception distance is controlled by rx antenna. There's a test from a set of questions. Do a google search, there's plenty of info.

I suspect that the 500mw 2.4ghx tx set is lighter than the 100mw 900mw tx set or at worst about the same, because you only need a two cell battery, rather than a three cell battery.

Any plane you fly with a camera should be powered with lipoly cells to off set the extra weight and give decent flight times. Also look at a brushless power setup, as it will help too. A speed 400 power zagi should fly fine with a 3 cell 2ah pack.

Lipolys take at least one hour to fully charge, any faster and you will hurt them, you need a special charger, there are a lot out there now.

If you are worried about cost, get the kx 131, it's a great camera.
Old 03-16-2007, 01:21 PM
  #9  
markm75
Thread Starter
 
markm75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Good cam for Zagi? (any of these?)


ORIGINAL: lupy

ham license is strictly a tx power thing, as reception distance is controlled by rx antenna. There's a test from a set of questions. Do a google search, there's plenty of info.

I suspect that the 500mw 2.4ghx tx set is lighter than the 100mw 900mw tx set or at worst about the same, because you only need a two cell battery, rather than a three cell battery.

Any plane you fly with a camera should be powered with lipoly cells to off set the extra weight and give decent flight times. Also look at a brushless power setup, as it will help too. A speed 400 power zagi should fly fine with a 3 cell 2ah pack.

Lipolys take at least one hour to fully charge, any faster and you will hurt them, you need a special charger, there are a lot out there now.

If you are worried about cost, get the kx 131, it's a great camera.
I'm assuming the idea of having seperate batteries for the TX and the plane's receiver is good practice too? Your saying that with my 400 speed motor and 15 ESC, I could simply add the lipo battery source? I've seen some who have said this, but yet others who have said I could burn the motor out, or it would be underpowered. I guess just switching to the Mega motor might be a good idea then? Would I need an ESC rated for Lipos (some have said my 15 amp ESC would be enough).. so I'm alittle confused on this one. Some have even said that if I switch to say, a bigger motor, or the Mega.. I could then still use my 1700mah NIcad power packs as well, with a different prop and maybe a different ESC.

Old 03-16-2007, 07:38 PM
  #10  
lupy
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Renton, WA
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Good cam for Zagi? (any of these?)

depending on the prop, almost any motor, esc, prop combo is posible. A stock zagi 400 motor 6v speed 400. is a little slow with 2 cells, but will quickly burn out with 3 cells. A better choice would be a 7.2 or 7.5v speed 400 on 3 cells. Your stock esc will usually work, but it lacks a 9v cut off which is needed to prevent dammage to a 3 cell lipoly pack. A 2 cell lipoly will usually be caught by the low voltage cut on most stock esc's. I have flown my stock zagi with a 2 cell lipoly, but it really lacks zip. By the time you buy a new esc, and speed 400 motor, It's probably worth the extra to just step up to brushless. Take a look on another forum to see what everyone is using on a zagi. If you can spin a bigger prop, it will fly longer. You arn't trying to build a speed demon. Try to stick with a 3 cell 2000mah pack for the motor. Anything bigger gets pretty heavy if you add the camera and such. Trying to use your stock nicad pack will usually be too heavy once you add everything else, it has been done, but a light plane flys better and will be more forgiving.

Yes separate batterys for the tx is a good idea, it can be done with the motor battery but can lead to problems.
Old 03-23-2007, 04:25 PM
  #11  
markm75
Thread Starter
 
markm75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Good cam for Zagi? (any of these?)

Can anyone recommend a good RTF slow flyer type electric that would run on Lipo's to handle the camera system?

I've seen alot of kits that are "RTF" but come with a radio and a bunch of equipment I dont need and these are usually NICAD based, though I'm sure Lipos would work in some cases..

Lookin for a good RTF slow flyer (or larger aircraft, not really a slow flyer necessarily) that is at least 48" in wingspan, if not larger in wingspan, that would basically have at least all the parts to put it together, if not the motor, servo's etc as well...

Here was one such kit I was considering, but its rather pricey and only comes with NICAD based equipment and already has a radio..

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...=++&search3=Go

I was hoping to find another plane similar to this, with all needed parts to get it in the air (short of the radio/batteries) for say $135-$165 maximum and only take a max of 5 hours to put together (time is short).

Thanks
Old 03-24-2007, 05:56 PM
  #12  
lupy
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Renton, WA
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Good cam for Zagi? (any of these?)

There are a lot of threads about Planes for video, I think the top two are the Easy star with a brushless upgrade, and the twin star. Both have a clear view to the front. A new plane is the Busybee from Hobby Loby.

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/busybee.htm

Not a bad way to go for someone without much gear. Brushless, Li poly, RTF, 4 ch. The foam isn't as durable as the easystar, but if you are carefull, it's probably fine. I wish they sold it bare.

Ken
Old 03-26-2007, 03:24 PM
  #13  
markm75
Thread Starter
 
markm75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Good cam for Zagi? (any of these?)

I took a look at the Easy Star, along with some notes on upgrading.. Does any of this sound logical.. to give me good verical 3d power or at least enough to add 3.5 oz of camera equip:

Motor: Warp4 with a 25amp Align brushless ESC? Is it 3S 2000mah? ?C (very new to Lipo)

What sort of charger would I want to get for in house charging the night before? (I'm assuming Lipos dont lose their charge like the Nicads that I have with my Zagi 400x?)
Is it safe to charge in the house with one of these?

Is the 6x4e prop the right prop for this configuration?

Finally.. which kit would I want to buy if I already have an existing radio (futaba 6xa).. would it work with the servo's that come with the one that has servo's but no radio? I'm also not sure on the model receiver I would need to work with the futuba.
(Sorry I havent built a plane since the Zagi many years ago)

Are there extra parts/glue etc I need to buy to put it together with the base kit?

Here were the two kits I was looking at that didnt come with a radio:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Product...rodID=MPU214192 or
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bi...?&I=LXMYK8&P=FR

Old 03-26-2007, 07:53 PM
  #14  
lupy
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Renton, WA
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Good cam for Zagi? (any of these?)

Take a look at this thread, there should be everything there you could possibly want to know about it. I built mine stock, but haven't mounted a camera on it. I think I am going to go with a twinstar for a camera ship, as it has a lot more wing and more lifting area. + it's 4ch, so a little more capable acro wise.



http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=618732

Best of luck!
Ken
Old 03-26-2007, 10:26 PM
  #15  
markm75
Thread Starter
 
markm75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Good cam for Zagi? (any of these?)


ORIGINAL: lupy

Take a look at this thread, there should be everything there you could possibly want to know about it. I built mine stock, but haven't mounted a camera on it. I think I am going to go with a twinstar for a camera ship, as it has a lot more wing and more lifting area. + it's 4ch, so a little more capable acro wise.



http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=618732

Best of luck!
Ken

Cool thats exactly what I was searching for.. thanks..

Curious ..Is this the twinstar you are getting? http://www.hobby-lobby.com/twinstar2.htm


Cheers
Old 03-26-2007, 11:11 PM
  #16  
lupy
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Renton, WA
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Good cam for Zagi? (any of these?)

Yes, it has a lot more wing than the easystar. There are a lot of people flying the easystar with pan tilt rigs, which must weight more than 4oz, but the twinsar can carry a lot more, it's bigger and more stable in wind. Also, I want to do a seaplane conversion, the extra power alerons and bigger wing will be helpfull.

As far as more info, I hate to say it, but I think this forum is going downhill, there is a lot more going on on some of the RC groups forums, esp when it comes to electrics. This forum has been pretty quiet lately.


there is a 20% sale at HL at the moment, think I'm going to jump
Ken

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/ezonegene...rce=bar&kw=gen
Old 03-27-2007, 10:20 AM
  #17  
markm75
Thread Starter
 
markm75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Good cam for Zagi? (any of these?)

I'm not sure what the total weight of the Easystar would be with Lipos.. but it appears the TwinStar uses Nimh and weighs around 46oz? I guess the Twinstar could take another 3.5 Oz for camera and lipo pack for the camera transmitter?

Still this is alot heavier than my 26 oz nicad Zagi

This was my question, as to how the Easystar vs Twinstar would do in a good wind.. say 10mph or more.. frequently I can fly in this condition, even up to 15 mph with the zagi.. though it is an adventure.

I tried your faq link on the easystar again, this time the site seems down..

But I'm still waivering on which to get.. or both I guess the twinstar would run at or above $200 without radio, though I do have a field charger for nimh..

Would you convert the Twinstar to Lipo?

Do you currently use Lipos? If so.. do you charge attended in the house.. what do you use in house (an DC to AC converter and a lipo field charger with balancer, model?) Do you charge either in house or out in the field with batteries in a fire safe device (kind?).. do you store them in the house in a safe place or in the car during transit.. I'm almost reconsidering switching to Lipo due to the safety factor..

Cheers

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.