Aerodynamics Discuss the physics of flight revolving around the aerodynamics and design of aircraft.

Can a Delta Wing have flaps?

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Old 01-20-2017, 11:42 AM
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mikes68charger
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Default Can a Delta Wing have flaps?

Ok so I picked up old Joe 105in ME 163 It has 2 controls per wing, and the owner said the inboard ali were used as flaps during landing.


This seems conflicting, can a tail less plane use flaps? or Would it actuly be more of a crow, as the inside ali/elv would be going down and the out board ali would be going up as in typical delta wing flight?


As all my delta wings need relex, or up ali/elv to fly level.
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Old 01-20-2017, 12:51 PM
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I have a delta with flaps but I dont use them, on a delta they just act like down elevator more than helping anything.

Just my .02
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Old 01-20-2017, 08:06 PM
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Good question. I went back and reviewed some old movie footage of 163's flying during WWII and at first glance it appears that they had extended flaps for landing. But on more careful viewing, the flaps are not on the trailing edge of the wing. They are flat panels on the lower surface only, and are about 60% of the way back from the leading edge. So they are in fact spoilers, not flaps. They would be used to steepen the glide path to assure an accurate landing spot, just like any modern glider.

The spoilers on the 163 are no doubt positioned such that they create little or no pitching moment, while at the same time creating needed drag. Note also that the 163 isn't really a delta wing. It's a swept wing tailless aircraft. So the actual position of the spoilers is quite near the CG compared to the elevons.

Link to movie below. You can see the extended spoilers on landing at about 2:50 and at 4:12 into the movie. And then a pretty clear shot of the lower surface of the wing at 4:42.

Dick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMScNZFg0k4
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Old 01-21-2017, 12:26 AM
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As Dick says, there are flaps on the wing bottom, and what looks like a flap on the inner wing's trailing edge is called trim tab (Trimmklappe) in the German Wikipedia article (good pictures showing the flaps there). The English article isn't bad either. The airplane had also fixed leading edge slats on the outer wing parts. (Not a bad idea for the swept wing.) You may also see 3views of the A and B versions.
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Old 01-21-2017, 09:18 AM
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Here is flaps (crow) used on a plank wing to land in challenging places:

https://youtu.be/R7cDeu1Kd3s?t=2m20s

It's tricky to get it right, the pitch is constantly changing according to airspeed. This is a lucky shot.
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Old 01-25-2017, 12:39 AM
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The 163's inner trailing edge 'elevators' were for trimming the pitch change caused by the under wing flaps. Deltas really don't need them (flaps), providing the balance is right and you can get the wing up to the large alphas deltas can use...the drag increase is huge and the speed can be really slow, flaps really wouldn't work with them...generally it means that if you are using a prop it needs to be at the front...
Evan.
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Old 02-13-2017, 08:24 AM
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mikes68charger
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Ok, SO Should I just link them to the match the outside control surface for elevator movement only? That way the out side panels are programed as elevons, and the inside ones would just have a mix that would follow the elevator movement.

Im going to fiberglass the wing next week, so im making corrections now. I was thinking of adding the lower flaps but it looks like the servos are in the way. I also thought about adding the front leading edge slats, but I had a buddy at the museum that sent me some pics of the real one and the leading edge looks like it would be real weak as this is a foam wing.
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Old 02-13-2017, 05:02 PM
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mikes68charger
It would perhaps be more logical to use the outers as ailerons and the inners just as elevators.
As a flying wing rather than a delta the control surfaces are close to the CofG and particularly at speed small movements have a significant effect so it is unlikely you will all four surfaces as elevators. .
As elevons it might take some effort to eliminate any unwanted pitch change with aileron movement and vice versa. Keeping pitch and roll control on different surfaces should keep it simple to set up.
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Old 02-16-2017, 01:33 AM
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Northrup's prototype flying wing used flaps. Check it out on Youtube.
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