rc12

I have noticed recently that 727s have droped from around $6,000,000 to around $500,000 in some places. Is this because of their age or due to Delta Airlines selling all their 727's. This is just a question I thought I would bring up.

GRANT ED

The age of the aircraft combined with the fact that many do not comply with the ever stricter noise regs and that there are many newer aircraft sitting in the deserts around the world all add up to the 727 not having much value.
One would make an interesting house though.

Jim C.

i heard the MD-80's are to be phased out by next year also due to the noise issue.. dunno who true that is tho?

rc12

That is the thing, they do comply with current nosie regs. All the ones I have seen have stage three hush kits on them. From what I see is they only need stage two to be legal. Their for I would think they would be snached up by the lower class cargo carriers. Not being laied of from them. [sm=confused.gif] Also they would make GREAT private jets for their size and current puzzling low cost.

MajorTomski

Please remember that a Part 25 airplane like the 727 is under a very big, expensive OEM maintenance plan. The FAA used to operate two ex Lufthansa airplanes. A Boeing service rep pointed out that they make more money selling new airplanes not fixing old ones. So you just raise the required inspections to the point that it's cheaper to buy new. And in today's market the old three holer isn't very fuel efficient.

rc12

Most of the ones I see, well allmost half I see just went through their C less than 200 hours ago. That is one Expencive thing to do to an aircraft that you are about to sell! C is when they basicly tear the plane apart and put it back together!

GRANT ED

I doubt that. Northwest still has DC-9's, the oldest being made I believe in the late 60's / early 70's and they have not made any firm plan's to replace them yet.
Also its not only older planes like 727's being parked. Newer designs such as 747-400's, 767-300 and the like are also in storage. The main problem being after 911 and the SARS problem a lot of airlines simply had to much capacity. It cost less to put a plane in temp storage than to have it flying around 80% empty.

LearjetMech

Another reason 727's being phased out is it takes 3 to fly them. Back in college I did a report on UPS and their 727QF's (Quiet Frieghter). Dee Howard converted old 727's to an all glass cockpit and made it a 2 person airplane. Also put Rolls Royce engines in them. You can tell these aircraft by the oblong #2 intake. They initially figured about a 1-2% fuel cost savings, and at 11 million coversion cost, the airplane would pay for itself in so many years. It turned out the fuel savings were 11%. The airplane ended up paying for itself in like 3 years. I have also seen some private 27's at our airport with winglets. Not sure what mod it is but it is pretty sharp. My Father-in-Law flew United in the 27. He loved it and sweared by it! It is a shame to see that airplane depart our skies!

Eagle28SX

I used to fly the UPS Rolls Royce powered 727's, and now fly their MD-11's. The cockpits were converted to EFIS, but they were not converted from 3 to 2-person cockpits. The FE was still onboard. Even with the RR powered aircraft being stage 3 compliant, we still parked many (15, I think) of them in the desert. They just are not as efficient as our 757's for the shorter trips that these aircraft fly. The RR 727 has a max tow of 169,500#. The 757 has a max takeoff weight of 250,000# with about the same (or slightly less) fuel burn, and one less crewmember. We are still operating many of these RR 727's, and will for the next 2 years. After that, they will be retired to the desert. BTW - these 727's also have Head-Up display systems, allowing them to be hand-flown to CAT III minimums - very nice airplane.

FLYBOY

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The company I used to fly jets for owns a company in Seattle that puts winglets on boeing airplanes. They also do the winglets on the G2. It is an interesting mod. Does a lot for the BBJ series from what I am told. I don't know much about how they do it, but now they are in a partnership with boeing doing it. Pretty cool stuff.

scottrc

The 727 by far is my favorite. It feels quick, agile, and has nice smooth lines. Every flight I had on one I talked to the pilots and they all said it is the Corvette or sports car of commercial airliners. No other plane performs as "hot" as this one. Of coarse, according to a number of NTSB reports and documentaries, the sporty design was the main reason for crashes. The pilot got too confident with flying the plane hands on, missed a procedure, and then missed an approached or came in too hot. An A&P buddy of mine who worked for Northwest in the 70's contested that until the FAA and Boing cracked down on pilot qualifications for the 727, they went through four times the number of brakes and struts than any other airliner in the fleet.

Jimmbbo

Nope - the MD80 is "native Stage III compliant", meaning it was certified from inception to comply with the noise regs (FAR 36)... There have been some moves to have retrofitted Stage III aircraft banned, but that is far from a done deal.

Cheers!

Jim

SunShyne

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interesting discussion..on the 727. growing up and plane spotting I used to love watching them leave DCA heading north. man that thing is LOUD!!!! Impressive takeoffs were only part of it as the visual of the 3 engines was neat.

Recently I watched a special on Discovery Wings and a 777 pilot said the 727 was ineffecient and underpowered.


hmm.. [sm=confused.gif]

LearjetMech

Eagle---I stand corrected! I guess college professors AREN'T always right like they think they are! (LOL)

Jim C.

hmm must just be the air force that is phasing them out then... but they are doing it becasue of the noise i do know that. like i said that was just what i heard about all of them..

rc12

I like the idea of them being LOUD that is what a jet is supposed to be (in my world). :P

CANDOO

and it's still the only airliner that will CRUISE at .9

BaronSchwab

Airplanes are suppost to be LOUD. What, don't let all the car drivers have strraight pipes and the FAA screaming at the pilots for LOUD planes.

I used to live under the final appch. for Rwy 22 at KMSP and when the wind was right I would love laying in bed hearing the planes land a 4 AM and tell meyself what plane it was by hearing it's sound. I was cool.

Then also when the wind was light the tower controllers would send the 1:30 PM and 9:00 PM 747 flights off on Rwy. 04. Man you could here thoses things comming as soon as they revvved up and started rollin'. And when they passed over at 500 feet the whole house would shake like crazy. I always thought that I would need to sent a bill to NWA for a broken window.

Not to mention when the 727s would TO on Rwy 04.

Those were the days.......

Now I live by a Army Heli airway, what a downgrade. Those helis are annoing.

rjmech

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Two of the main reasons airlines are getting rid of the old aircraft is, aircraft values since 9-11 have dropped significantly, old 9's -10/-30 were worth 3-5 mil after 9-11 I think current value is about 500k-750k w/ fresh C and good engines. Operators are paying lease payment based on a 10mil aircraft that is worth only 3mil, looks really bad in the books. The other big factor for older aircraft is fuel consumption, in the last 3 years we are paying 30-40% more for fuel. Take that amount of extra money w/ cheaper fares = no revenue. You can lease a 717 from Boeing for almost nothing, and the cost in fuel savings will almost pay for the lease payment, plus no heavy mx for about 7 years, its like operating for free compared to a 9.

rc12

I live under the New Century-Down town Army chinook (how ever you spell it) routes. thet are ANNOYING!!!!!!!! we have sometimes up to 50 over each day! we have one like every 10mins it seems like! they come over at 200-300ft(right after T/O) and they are loud!

BaronSchwab

The Louder the better right???

rc12

that is what I say, "Louder is better" unless it is a heli

CaptRKO

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Hello guys!

I was furloughed from United last July 2003. I was hired at Transmeridian Airlines almost a week later becuase of my previous 727 flight time at UAL. The Boeing "Three-holer" is my favorite, the 727's I fly at Transmeridian are all "Van-sal" Stage 3 airplanes with -17 eninges on the 1&3 pods, lot's of power and she is BUILT like a brick ****-house! We are currently flying (5) of them on scheduled routes Orlando-Las Levags, Orlando -Rockford, Orlando-Syracuse, Orlando-San-Juan. The plan is to retire them by 2005, pretty sad that United retired them quickly in the wake of 9/11 but I feel lucky to fly the old gal into her retirement (She is older than I am!)

Here are some pics! Enjoy......Randy

rc12

Sweet, I will have to get on one of those! Your longest flight! I will see if my parents will take me on one over spring break! [8D][8D][8D] YEAH!!! where can I get tickets? I am going to fly for no reason, besides the Famous airplane ofcourse Glad to see these still exist in the airline market! also I would love to get some pics of these!!!

CaptRKO

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For flights on TMA go to the website http://www.transmeridian-airlines.com/index2.html

For more cool 727 Pics go to Airliners.net do the search function, they have awesome pics!

Long live the THREE HOLER......

Randy