B58

My Feedback: (43)

It really is pointless to second guess until the report comes out. I saw people jump to all kinds of conclusions in 23+ years in the airforce. Sometimes they guess right, but usually not. There is always a chain of events that leads to an accident, and we learned that if you can interrupt the chain any place along the line, you can prevent the accident. Too bad you find that out after the fact. This jet may have taken a bird in the canopy, pilot g'd out, who knows. You can bet they will find out, and take action to try to prevent a future occurance. I was going to keep quiet on this one, but had to put my 2 cents in. Bob

starwoes

all speculators must cease and desist now!! easy enough to postulate, come up with all kinds of guesses to boost the ego, so when the real report comes out, u can say , "i told you so."

a very sad event. let the experts work on it and YOU take a chill pill! YOU SIMPLY DO NOT KNOW! maybe he ran out out of gas

Airforce7

My Feedback: (31)

Click on the link in the PDF file and you can read his Bio. He was an F-14 pilot as well...

http://www.blueangels.navy.mil/docs/pr_20070422.pdf

yeahbaby

My Feedback: (21)

isn't there a full scale forum around here somewhere?

warbird_1

My Feedback: (61)

modelman, i'm sorry for the loss of your friend. thanks for coming on and letting us fans know. God be with his family and friends ,WB_1

Shaun Evans

my f@#%ng hero!

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

Buck, that's apparently a California "NO".

yeahbaby

My Feedback: (21)

glad someone got the message.



tornado just blew by my neck of the woods. whew missed and heading north east. pretty eerie listening to the tornado sirens going off in the night. can't see poop and the rain is falling sideways

Shaun Evans

yeah, Buck, I got the message. I hope everyone else does, too.... I'm glad the message came from a bug driver.

warbird_1

My Feedback: (61)

goes back to the old liberal saying. if you don't like the channel , change it

yeahbaby

My Feedback: (21)

yup

WhoDaMan

My Feedback: (164)

Buck,,,, My man,,,, your the one who moved to the land of changing weather,,, Good to see your doing well



Modelman,,, I am sorry about your friend,,,, the best team in the world,,, God bless them all

Ray Davis

My Feedback: (1)

Frankly, I don't understand the supposed irreverence/transgression/whatever in speculating/guessing re full scale crashes, including this one. Of course we may know the causes for certain, or at least officially, sometime in the future, but it's pretty natural, even instructive, to guess and discuss immediatly. And especially for us. And, so far, IMO, it hasn't been in bad taste at all, and it's of obvious great interest.

RCer's do this all the time in real time at the field, sometimes video as in the UK B-52 crash....as watching/discussing alone is most often the only data for analysis available to us with models. We watch and 'guess' all the time, crash or not, because it is helpful and useful in preventing ours going down.

So, until it's actually in bad taste/disrespectful (whoever draws that line...), or explained sufficiently so to me, I'd like to hear all I can. I'm a grownup, I can filter BS pretty well....others can always change the channel, as mentioned above.

Ray

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Speculating in private is one thing - having people publicly posting claims like "it's obvious that it's pilot error" are quite another IMO. As we have already seen here, friends of the lost airman see these posts, and who knows - maybe family do too. I think if it were a close family member of yours, and you saw these arm-chair quarterbacks piling blame on your family member for no good reason, you might revisit your "bad taste" opinion.

Gordon

ianober

My Feedback: (12)

Amen to that brotha!!!!

warbird_1

My Feedback: (61)

does it really matter how he crashed? it's funny to watch posts go from simple observations to endless deep theological psycho analyzing. I for one am a Blue Angles fan and look for input that’s accurate . just ride the wave and don't be so anal retentive. unfortunally it won't be the last one lost .

diceman

My Feedback: (10)

Hey Warbird

Are you new to this forum? This is all SOP here in RCU land?!?!?!

warbird_1

My Feedback: (61)

nope . been here as long as you and even longer before it became RCU sop?

WhoDaMan

My Feedback: (164)

Oh yeah,,,,,,,,,,,,,, well I have ya both beat

David DeWitt

My Feedback: (289)

How about some great pictures of the Blue Angels in action

http://www.bentbay.dk/blue_angels.htm

warbird_1

My Feedback: (61)

i just found this video on google. it looks like he turned to tight and stalled it . that's my guess . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D87NIuJyJmw&NR=1

it also maybe that he lost engine power right in the turn because he slowed down quick in the turn.

jonkoppisch

My Feedback: (162)

What seemed strange to me is that at the end of the turn he stayed in a bank/knife edge. He never leveled the wings...

Let me say that i think that the Blue Angels are the hands down absolute BEST there is!!! I believe that, that would be the ultimate position for any aviator to achieve!!!

Bryce Watson

My Feedback: (6)

Or videos........................

[link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPl4LI-NNf8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPl4LI-NNf8[/link]

[link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygELfsIzgP0&mode=related&search=LMAO!!!!]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygELfsIzgP0&mode=related&search=LMAO!!!![/link]

[link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xlFTbvVh9E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xlFTbvVh9E[/link]

Then again like Buck says.........maybe this should all be in the full scale forum?

Auburn02

My Feedback: (1)

This made me chuckle for some reason:

LowFlyBye

Having flown aerobatics and close formation many times in warbirds there are a few things that "seem obvious" in this accident.

1- This was a very experienced and very professional pilot and should be respected as such

2- Highly doubtful that he over- G'd the aircraft or himself...a pilot with such experience would recognize the grey out before a blackout or G-lock and simply relax the stick pressure in the turn to prevent such problems. In aerobatics and formation you fly outside the cockpit...by feel. Holding 3 - 4 G's in a loop or turn is done by feel, not looking at a G-meter...you get used to the feel.

3- Stalling a wing in the turn would have resulted in the aircraft ending up on its back as the wing does not generate lift in a stall. Since the Blue Angel continued in a knife edge, this was not the issue. Get some altitude and try it some time...it is very abrupt and violent when executing a power on, high banking stall. This happens more often than it should when aircraft turn base to final and add rudder to keep from overshooting the turn. It results in an unrecoverable, low level spin.

4- Losing an engine is doubtful and should not have caused an accident. The close proximity of the exhaust nozzles is designed to prevent adverse thrust due to a flame-out. Had the aircraft lost an engine in the turn the pilot would have simply leveled out the turn and climbed out of the low level to trouble shoot. The loss of airspeed is normal in a high G turn and is often the limiting factor in how long the turn can be maintained. This is why aircraft with thrust vectoring can maintain higher bank angles and continue the turns...the thrust can overcome the excess drag created by the high-G turns.

Unfortunately this one "may be" the result of pilot error though it does not detract from the respect that the pilot is due. Every pilot makes mistakes...it is the severity of the mistakes that determines if we will learn from it or if others will learn from it. If nothing is learned from this mistake then it was a mistake made in vain. It should be talked about and speculated (respectfully) in order to prevent it from happening again. In formation flight, your eyes are outside of the cockpit 99% of the time and are focused on the Lead or your position indicator. In a typical rejoin such as this one, you come in below and behind the formation and ease up into position on a set angle based on indicating points of the reference aircraft. Example: draw a straight line from the nav light to the pilots’ ear and stay on the line to keep in position while easing in closer on that line.

In formation, every pilot depends upon the lead for altitude, airspeed, and obstacle clearance, your head is always focused on the lead. In this case it is very possible that the pilot was re-joining based on his "normal picture" and never even saw that he was too low or what he hit until it was too late.

Again...no disrespect to the pilot, family, friends, or the Blue's. Flying is inherently dangerous and all of us that participate in these activities understand that when we strap into the cockpit. My condolences to the aforementioned survivors and a respectful salute to the pilot.

There are only two bad things can happen to you as a pilot, and one of them eventually will.

One day you will walk out to the aircraft knowing that it is your last flight in an aircraft.

~ or ~

One day you will walk out to the aircraft not knowing that it is your last flight in an aircraft.