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*Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

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Old 08-20-2008, 04:24 AM
  #901  
majortom-RCU
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

Garfield, I can't speak for the Airtronics designers, but the lack of dual rates and expo on rudder would be a minor concern IMHO. I can only suppose manufacturing economy has something to do with it. Economy aside, I've flown pattern through intermediate on maybe a dozen planes by now, and I pretty much always set up rudder for thirty degrees right and left, same on both low rate and high rate, and always use less expo on rudder than on ailerons and elevators.

When I set up 3D models, which is definitely a sideline for me, I can find reasons for dual or triple rates on rudder. On pattern planes, even when I have dual rate programing available, I don't use it on rudder. If I had no expo on rudder, it would be no problem aside from retraining my left thumb. On ailerons and elevators (both on right stick), lots of expo helps to reduce any tendency for unintended inputsi.e. elevator deflection when you only intended ailerons, or vice versa. Apart from the unintentionals, expo is mainly a comfort feature. I tend to like a lot of expo, some of my flying buddies prefer not using expo at all.
Old 08-20-2008, 08:35 AM
  #902  
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*


ORIGINAL: otrcman

gaRCfield,

Yes, that seems to be the consensus. The word is that Futaba receivers are quite sensitive to low voltage, and may have difficulties simply from momentary drops due to servo load. The Airtronics receiver works down to a much lower voltage and the servos will quit before the receiver does. I don't know if the Futabe has a fail safe mode or if the receiver simply re-boots due to low voltage.

I have seen a Spektrum do an unexplained loss of control which may have been the same low voltage phenomenon. It was in a hovering helicopter, and when tested afterward, the Spektrum worked fine. Could not reproduce failure. That's scary to me.

Regarding pointing the antenna at the airplane. The first time I range tested my new RDS (in low power mode) I walked out to the max range point of about 75 paces, then deliberately pointed the antenna at the airplane. I couldn't detect any range reduction at all, but that doesn't keep me from following the precautions in the operating manual.

Dick
You have this a bit mixed up. The Futaba RX units are still quite reliable at lower voltages (down to 3 volts where the servos don't operate well) although no manufacturer (including Airtronics) recommends it. JR/Spektrum RX's seem to have a problem below 4.8 volts at the RX and drop out. They have a mod available to speed up re-boot time though and a 6v battery helps too. Futaba RX re-boot is near instantaneous.
Old 08-20-2008, 10:17 AM
  #903  
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

All,

I purchased the RDS8000 to put in my new Pulse XT 40 and it has been ROCK SOLID for the dozen or so flights I have on the plane. It is hard to explain but 2.4Ghz just feels so much more responsive than My old 72Mhz radio. I switched from Futaba so the programming took a bit to get used to but once you get the hang of the Airtronics style programming I think it is easier than my 6XAS.

All of the voltage questions had me a bit spooked so I upped the battery pack to a new 4.8V 1000mha Sanyo NiCad battery. Even after 5 flights it still reads over 5V under load so I can’t imagine getting down to the 3V to 4V during a typical day flying…

I really like the “pointy toothpick†style sticks on the Futaba radios (the RDS8000 comes with flat topped sticks) and found out that you can steal the stick tops off an old Futaba radio (thanks to mrbigg for the suggestion)! In my instance I had an old Futaba Skysport buddy box that I wasn’t using so I just “borrowed†them. Just be really careful when trying this and don’t force anything as you need to make sure that the threads match between vendors. In my case I screwed the Airtronics tops into the buddy box first to verify the threads as I figured ruining a buddy box was cheaper than a new TX!

I wish the RDS8000 had a couple of extra features like model match, timer start on throttle up and a bigger battery but these are all pretty minor.

IMHO this is the best TX/RX combo for the money by a long shot!

Thanks Airtronics!
Old 08-20-2008, 10:38 AM
  #904  
djlyon
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

I wish the end points were independently adjustable for high rates and low rates like Futaba. Unique pylon racing problem.

Denis
Old 08-20-2008, 10:54 AM
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

Model Match is Patent Pending so they would need to pay royalties if they copied the feature too closely.
Old 08-20-2008, 12:44 PM
  #906  
prgonzalez
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

I have been thinking on getting a 2.4 system and after reading the whole thread for some hours, I am very curious about this system.

These are my comments/questions:

1. One question that some pilots made previously that has not been answered is the use of heli mode for flying airplanes in order to gain D/R and expo in the rudder.
2. I am about to start precision flying (pattern) and at this time I still am not sure that this radio has all of the features needed for such flying setup. Some pilots have said in this thread that it is a pilot preference while another pilot in the pattern fourm only recommended this radio for the first two classes of pattern.
3. How this radio compares to the JR-378? I own two JR-378 radios that have a good set of programming features that I know I have not yet explored and I am not sure to need ever. I know the 378 has enough programming for pattern, however, I still share frequency pin with other pilots.
4. I am convinced about the commitment of Global and ATX for customer service satisfaction and R&D efforts. There is a big piece of mind on that aspect.
5. Do I have to wait to see the 10-channel radio specs to make the final decision?

I would highly appreciate your input.

Pedro
Old 08-21-2008, 01:00 AM
  #907  
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

Optional pointy ended sticks are available for those who want them.
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/492778.asp

Some people do fly fixed wing in heli mode. You pick up flight modes and rudder expo. You loose differential aileron and dual elevator mixing, for example. So, if the plane is a fairly simple plane, go with the heli if rudder expo is important.

If you're not using any p-mixes, you can use airplane mode, but then use one of the p-mixes, mix rudder to rudder, and now that mix, on the mix on/off switch, become rudder dual rate. It's an end-around band aid but I know a lot of pilots who use it quite successfully

Mike
Old 08-21-2008, 08:38 AM
  #908  
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

someone was explaining the heli mode to me.. you need to choose the right type "head" setup for it to work.. maybe others can clarify and maybe the default option for this is the right one..
Old 08-21-2008, 01:35 PM
  #909  
Jetdesign
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

prgonzalez, I'm the one who started the radio thread in the pattern forum. I've gotten back some personal emails from experienced pattern pilots, and what I've heard is that:

1)This radio does not have dual rates and expo on the rudder; may not be a big deal to starting pattern pilots, but definitely a feature people want for intermediate->masters.
2)This radio does not have assignable switches; you can't put all the dual rates on one switch, and you can't set up switches to your preference. Again, not a big deal for starting pattern pilots.

I got the radio anyway; I am a starting pattern pilot with 2 planes and this radio comes with two receivers. It has the ability of using dual channels for dual elevators, and plenty of pre-programmed mixes, like elevator to throttle, etc. It is inexpensive and I was able to have one now, before the season is over.

If you really want a great radio (i.e. want to wait for the right radio) then either wait for the 10ch and see it's features, or go with a 7 or even 9 (really 9 if you are serious about pattern) channel Futaba or Spektrum. Will cost a bit more, but you are less likely to be unhappy two or three years from now.
Old 08-21-2008, 02:02 PM
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*


ORIGINAL: gaRCfield

prgonzalez, I'm the one who started the radio thread in the pattern forum. I've gotten back some personal emails from experienced pattern pilots, and what I've heard is that:

1)This radio does not have dual rates and expo on the rudder; may not be a big deal to starting pattern pilots, but definitely a feature people want for intermediate->masters.
2)This radio does not have assignable switches; you can't put all the dual rates on one switch, and you can't set up switches to your preference. Again, not a big deal for starting pattern pilots.

I got the radio anyway; I am a starting pattern pilot with 2 planes and this radio comes with two receivers. It has the ability of using dual channels for dual elevators, and plenty of pre-programmed mixes, like elevator to throttle, etc. It is inexpensive and I was able to have one now, before the season is over.

If you really want a great radio (i.e. want to wait for the right radio) then either wait for the 10ch and see it's features, or go with a 7 or even 9 (really 9 if you are serious about pattern) channel Futaba or Spektrum. Will cost a bit more, but you are less likely to be unhappy two or three years from now.
Don't forget the 10 Ch Futaba and good JR's. Spektrum (brand name) only goes to 7 channels, above that it's JR radios.
Old 08-21-2008, 04:11 PM
  #911  
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

Mike G, gaRCfield, and Bruce,

Thanks so much for providing the information I needed. Based on your information I have decided to wait. I already have what I need for the first classes in pattern. The JR X-378 it's a 7-channel computer radio with expo and DR in all surfaces, dual ailerons, dual elevators, aileron differential, pre-programmed mixes as well as channel-to-channel mixing, etc. Its programming is 98% the same as the JR-8103 (8-ch) but with just 7-channels.

At this time, I found that it does not make sense ($$) to jump to 2.4G with a lesser or equal radio than the one I already have. With this information and the hope that ATX/Global will deliver a real winner and competitor to JR and Futaba, I am going to wait for the 10-channel ATX specifications and price.

Thanks again,

Pedro

Old 08-21-2008, 06:39 PM
  #912  
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

Pedro-

Did it stop raining down there yet?
Old 08-21-2008, 09:14 PM
  #913  
prgonzalez
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

Bruce,

It was cloudy today. It rain came down early at dawn. I hope it will be dried this weekend.
Old 08-22-2008, 08:00 AM
  #914  
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*


ORIGINAL: gaRCfield

I've been reading review after review of people intentionally trying to go against the precautions and TRY to get radio failures, and it seems to be tough to do. But like you I will follow the manufacturers recommendations too.

I'm psyched for this radio; just don't understand why there's no D/R or Expo on the rudder?

I would like to have D/R on the rudder. I use it for taxiing in the grass. It’s easier using a lot of nose wheel steering, then flip to much less for take off roll.

Bill
Old 08-22-2008, 11:54 AM
  #915  
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

you can do it with a c-mix.. works great..
Old 08-22-2008, 08:02 PM
  #916  
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

Mike Greenshields,

I`ve been using the new airtronics 2.4 radio system in a sd30% yak with a 50cc gas motor. Somewhere around 40 flights now. So far I have not had a single glitch or felt a dead spot of any kind. I am using 2 6Vnmhi (2300) batteries and 2 switches on the receiver. I would like to use the same system(2 batteries, 2 switches) in a 100cc, 36% airplane but I know the larger aircraft will require a few more servos. I would like to use (2) A123 batteries (2300) and maybe a total of (9-10) servos. Should I use a second receiver. Thank you very much for any information.
Mark
Old 08-22-2008, 09:11 PM
  #917  
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

Clarc, I use the RDS system for the same type of aircraft you fly, my next 35% is going to utilize Smartfly's EQ10 Power Box. Arguably the only way to power giant scale aircraft.
Old 08-22-2008, 09:40 PM
  #918  
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

have there been any heat related issues with receivers like some of the others were having?
Old 08-22-2008, 09:48 PM
  #919  
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

No heat issues have been reported here and I've been following this thread since the first posting. However, I'm sure Mike can confirm. The low voltage battery problem and chafed joystick wires were with Spektrum/JR, the heat problem was with Futaba, the low voltage output (less than 3V - a problem for many servos) was with the Futaba 14ch receiver. So far, not hearing issues with the Airtronics RDS8000 other than people wish it already had D/R and Expo built-in. You can program the D/R with a mix. Expo...well....heck, @ $229 for a radio with (2) $79 receivers, you're only paying $70 for the transmitter. Kinda hard to complain TOO loudly [8D]
Old 08-22-2008, 10:51 PM
  #920  
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

I'm having a problem getting the RX to bind. After you release the blinking RX bind button, do you press and hold the TX button, or just press and release it?
Old 08-22-2008, 11:04 PM
  #921  
maustin
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

Follow this:
1. Turn on transmiter
2. While holding the bind button on the rec - turn rec on - light will blink slowly - let go now....
3. While rec is blinking slowly - press bind key on trans. It ( the rec) will flash fast and then go solid.
4. Your done
Old 08-23-2008, 02:00 AM
  #922  
Jetdesign
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

Pedro,
I absolutely agree with you, degrading in radio features just for 2.4ghz is a bad idea. Is there a module available for your radio? Some higher end computer FM radios can be switched to 2.4ghz.

Bill, my planes are all tail draggers. For more steering power I just nail the throttle quickly for a turn; the extra air over the rudder makes it really responsive (just a short burst of full throttle).

So I got 'my radio' yesterday, opened up the box and saw a little steering wheel -"Looks like a car radio," I said as I opened the packaging.

"Hmm, it IS a 3ch car radio!"

Airtronics mislabeled the MX-3 box with an RDS-8000 bar code, so that's what got shipped to me. No radio or flying for me this weekend[&o] Has this happened to anyone else?
Old 08-23-2008, 02:38 AM
  #923  
MikeGreenshields
 
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

ok, that's a new one. Thank you for letting me know about the packaging error.

Please contact service Monday (email Farrell, our Service Assistant Manager at [email protected]) or pm me here with your info , or email me
[email protected] so that I can get it taken care of for you.

Receiver heat.. Yep, we've tested above boiling, no problem.

I highly recommend a power box of some kind. Two receivers is nice in that if one dies, you got the second for some of the controls including both receiver's y'd to a kill switch of some kind.

Here's the thing on the big planes. 400 oz/in servos pull 5 amps when they're really worked hard. 5 amps x how many servos? 11? 8? yeah, that's a LOT of power. You'll need a proper powerbox of some kind for that.

On the features guys.. I've said this before, I'll say it again. The RDS8000 I think is a pretty spectacular radio for 200 bucks. But it's only our First Step into 2.4! We had to start somehwere and we started with this radio because in all, it's a really nice, comfy, versatile radio. And no, don't settle! Of course not! But I must say that we have found it really versatile and useful in a whole lot of different planes...

But for those who need more, we're making the 10 channel. Of course! Tons of features. It will be really nice to have it done and out.

Anyway, there you go. I hope it helps

Mike
Old 08-23-2008, 08:58 AM
  #924  
RCGeckoman
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

<grin> I am sure that we do not mean to keep bugging you about the new radio features Mike BUT....better that than noone caring!! I'm looking forward to seeing the specs once Airtronics are ready to release them.

it is really nice having you in this medium and so approachable with questions.

THANK YOU!!!

Dave L.
Old 08-23-2008, 03:15 PM
  #925  
MikeGreenshields
 
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Default RE: *Airtronics RD8000 2.4 GHz*

You're not bugging me
You guys do more for me and Airtronics/Sanwa than you might know! Feedback is essential and while we can't make everyone happy all the time, especially in the time frame allowed, we're doing our best to make sure what we make is great and serves your needs.

I enjoy my job a LOT. I've been flying since I was 6 and while I'm not a competitor at the field by any stretch of the imagination, I love the hobby and this Airtronics program gives me the chance to work with a world-class company. I get them motivated to make the stuff YOU want. That's personally satisfying. You might sift through my blog if you haven't. We've done a lot of really cool stuff with Sanwa/Airtronics since Spring of last year and I LIKE knowing what you're successful with and what you want next.

Anyway, I like what I do, I possibly have the coolest job in the industry, and I get to work with great staff, talented pilots, and enthusiastic modelers all around the world. Seems like a pretty good gig to me.

So, no, you're not bothering me and frankly everyone's enthusiasm here is my biggest motivator! Anyone watch the Olympics and hear Phelps talking about when other people trash-talked about him, all it did was motivate him? I'm a "little" the same way. When people are happy, it's satisfying knowing that we've done the job right, and when our competitors trash talk (which they do, it's the nature of the beast I think...) it just fuels the fire. The funny thing is that with that attitude the only commentary that is a downer is the commentary where we screwed something up ourselves (which if we do, I have an entire staff of people here geared up to make it right). Otherwise, it's all-good! Really!

I actually like telling the engineers at Sanwa somebody said 'Sanwa will never do this!' while I'm holding the prototype that 'actually does it better' in my hand (aka the 94780 servo we're about to release). They find it motivating too. The people at Sanwa are hard working honorable people who truly do want to do a good job for their customers in all of their markets.

OK, enough soap-box feel-good sappy talk. I'm off to do some less-fun work now.... It's not all rosy here, my job has boring parts too....

Happy Landings

Mike


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